Just fore the fun of it:)

[P.L.Lenihan]

UOTE=Sailor;3207053]we manly men of the north shovel snow all winter as well.[/QUOTE] Ah yes,it is all true what Sailor says Gary!


And as if that wasn't enough to tighten things up a bit below,when the going gets really tough, we get on the blower and call in the big boys









Of course, while they work moving untold metric pounds of snow, real men then seek comfort and joy with one of our national treasures......



































Cuddly beaver! But please, do not feel sorry for us or send cards of condolences, for we are men and men with a mission,to save trees everywhere for future boat builders.Thus, our appetite the little critters!







Cheers!


Peter

[P.L.Lenihan]

I assume that I will be educated here shortly, but putting a relatively flat bottomed boat into angled bunks doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me. Seems like you are inviting it to slip to one side or the other.

A most reasonable concern orbb and a fear shared with Nat also, as she looked on the proceedings. But there is hope!



Cheers!


Peter

[P.L.Lenihan]

i think you will find that those angled bunks do actually tilt and adjust to fit the shape of the hull so there is less likelyhood of things getting damaged

Speaking of hope, and just in time too! Indeed, here comes the voice of calm and steady wisdom, unfettered by the unseen, who bothers not with speculation and wishful thinking. Instead,once again, flyinwall sooths our furrowed brow and whispers truth. He would probably enjoy beavers too,if they existed in his native land but dems da breaks and we are on the verge of going off track yet again...




Cheers!


Peter

[flyinwall]

you talk of beavers and their wood destroying ability.... i also have the wood destroying ability as i work in a saw mill cutting hoop pine and i am always sending wood down the waste chute to the chipper to turn it into wood chip
and as for me enjoying beavers ...well........... ill leave which kind of beaver i enjoy to your imagination

[flyinwall]

oh and peter what are you doing up at this ungodly hour it is 2:12am fer christ sakes (i am up cause i not long ago finished work....bloody nightshift)

[P.L.Lenihan]

it is 2:12am fer christ sakes

No it's not, it is 11:32 AM, on a bright and sunny -5C Tuesday morning. There is only one type of beaver that is actually edible,ya know......just ask Sailor



Cheers!


Peter

[knottyBuoyz]

No it's not, it is 11:32 AM, on a bright and sunny -5C Tuesday morning. There is only one type of beaver that is actually edible,ya know......just ask Sailor

Would that be this type of beaver perchance?



You didn't expect a hairy ass'd ole' sailor to miss out on a good beaver thread did ya?

[P.L.Lenihan]

Ah yes, hairless beaver, tastes almost like chicken unless you make the common mistake of smothering it with port,a SBD and taking it the theater.I have more plebeian tastes however and prefer the traditional beaver, as enjoyed by the legendary coureur de bois of yore, and whose ancestors still reside in these parts.Nothing like a bit of home cookin' to get you goin' in the marnin',laddy!

Now, git back ta work



Cheers!


Peter

[ben2go]

That's not the kind of beaver I prefer to eat.My preference is of the two legged variety with just the right amount of waxing.

[Cogeniac]

WHat's this about beavers destroying wood?

I thought those types of beavers CREATED wood...

[ben2go]

WHat's this about beavers destroying wood?

I thought those types of beavers CREATED wood...

The two legged kind can go either way.It depends on the previous wood and if it was diseased.

[flyinwall]

Oh my what have i created.........

[PaulC]

I am not sure about the beavers, but Canada would be a very tough place to be a baby seal:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/...jean-seal.html

[Soundman67]

It wasnt a baby. Just another animal hunted for food. Not sport.

[P.L.Lenihan]

To nourish our inner beast:


http://whitebearsblog.blogspot.com/2...l-recipes.html


Bon appetite!



Peter

[ben2go]

I rarely hunt.When I do,it's for food,not for sport.I find no satisfaction in killing animals.I do however,find satisfaction in feeding my family.

Enough of my thread jacking.

Peter,can't wait for the next installment of Turtle Bay winter layup.

[Sailor]

Ask me? Ask me what? Are we back to the ol' "CH" again?

[WX]

Every 10 days? PSHAWWW, I mow every 5 when it's summer here but like Tenner, it gets cold and the grass goes dormant for the winter. I should have mowed it once more about a month ago but didn't bother. I'll leave it for now. I wish I could go 10 days without mowing it..... So not only to we mow the same number of times per year (assuming I mow twice as often for half the time) but we manly men of the north shovel snow all winter as well.

Keep in mind my house is two stories high.

[Spin_Drift]

Happy thanksgiving. May it be full of love, friends and good wood...oops, food...

[ben2go]

When is Canadian Thanksgiving?

[Ryden]

Ils disent que la chatte a le goût d'anchois.


Je ne sais pas, je n'ai jamais goûté d'anchois...

True story:
My brother in law is from England and has the surname Beaver.
His brother has two boys who are called Callum, which is fine, and Sean...

[flyinwall]

so do we get to see more of her packed away for the winter months????

[Ryden]

I certainly hope so!
Oh, your talking about the boat...

How are you going to lodge Turtle Bay over the winter now that the bowshed is gone? She's just born and needs to be pampered.
Maybe a new one in a fashionable colour.
I hear that blue is the new black

[Soundman67]

When is Canadian Thanksgiving?

Thanksgiving Day in Canada has been a holiday on the second Monday of October since 1957

[TR]

So at long last we've finally got a series of righting arm curves to stare at........



Above you see three curves, heel angle is along the bottom and righting arm length in decimal feet up the side. We can see max righting arm is around 20 degrees in all cases. Angle of vanishing stability (where the curve crosses zero righting arm) ranges from approximately 43 degrees for Lightship condition to above 60 degrees for Full Load condition. Remember operating condition is between Full Load and Arrival (10% liquids). Also note there still some righting force at 55 degrees heel in the full load condition.

Obviously these curves are very different from those of ballasted sailboats that many have seen. Often the AVS (angle of vanishing stability) is well above 100 degrees for typical sailing yachts. These curves represent a protected water cruiser which would not be intended for open water crossings though with prudence she could certainly undertake such. Turtle Bay is of a type that would qualify for ISO category C or D operation. Cat C allows operation in waves up to 2m in height, wind force of Beaufort 6, and wind speed of 17m/sec(33 knots).....They mention exposed inland waters, estuaies, and coastal waters.

The GM at 57.3 degrees (one radian) and Slope lines represent a basic check of the curve slope at small angles of heel.

One thing not obvious from this is that downflooding does not occur on this boat even at 55 degrees heel. The windows and forward cockpit are above water even at high angles. I'll try and get a representation of that together now. I would guess that she will lay right over on her side, running out of stability and then gaining it back (due to the huge shift in I as her side enters the water) to become almost impossible to invert.

[TR]

Phil was a pretty smart guy and here's some more evidence.....This is Windermere heeled 55 degrees. The bottom edge of the side windows (the open seam) are just kissing the water line (This is Arrival condition) and the cockpit edge is well above the water. I'll guess the forward cockpit will stay above waterline even at 90 degrees heel......

[Sailor]

WOW, that's pretty impressive. Much more respect for the Bolger boxes after seeing that. Thanks for all this work. I tried to send you a question by PM but it was too long..... (It included a paper I wrote recently though so I guess I had to expect that) It was pertinent to this stability topic we've been following along.

[essaunders]

but what about the beer cooler? Wasn't it on the roof? Of course, from what I read it won't stay full for long.

Seriously though, this is really nice information. Thanks for putting it into context with the Cat C or D reference.

Some other reading I've done referenced a replica dutch barge that was expecting a Cat C rating but got a Cat B - perhaps due to stronger glazing. Would stronger glazing and/or shutters bump Windermere up on the scale too?

[TR]

Sailor,

Just email me, tadroberts-at-shaw.ca

[TR]

ess......

Awarding the ISO Category is moderately complex (perhaps we should look at that in more detail), there are a bunch of factors involved including wind heeling, area under the righting arm curve, size of cockpit, etc. If you install strong enough windows at some point they become hull ports (though size counts) and are considered watertight and not downflooding points. The reality is I doubt this makes much sense as they get heavy and VCG goes up.........

[P.L.Lenihan]

So at long last we've finally got a series of righting arm curves to stare at........



Above you see three curves, heel angle is along the bottom and righting arm length in decimal feet up the side. We can see max righting arm is around 20 degrees in all cases. Angle of vanishing stability (where the curve crosses zero righting arm) ranges from approximately 43 degrees for Lightship condition to above 60 degrees for Full Load condition. Remember operating condition is between Full Load and Arrival (10% liquids). Also note there still some righting force at 55 degrees heel in the full load condition.

Obviously these curves are very different from those of ballasted sailboats that many have seen. Often the AVS (angle of vanishing stability) is well above 100 degrees for typical sailing yachts. These curves represent a protected water cruiser which would not be intended for open water crossings though with prudence she could certainly undertake such. Turtle Bay is of a type that would qualify for ISO category C or D operation. Cat C allows operation in waves up to 2m in height, wind force of Beaufort 6, and wind speed of 17m/sec(33 knots).....They mention exposed inland waters, estuaies, and coastal waters.

The GM at 57.3 degrees (one radian) and Slope lines represent a basic check of the curve slope at small angles of heel.

One thing not obvious from this is that downflooding does not occur on this boat even at 55 degrees heel. The windows and forward cockpit are above water even at high angles. I'll try and get a representation of that together now. I would guess that she will lay right over on her side, running out of stability and then gaining it back (due to the huge shift in I as her side enters the water) to become almost impossible to invert.

Hi Tad,


What a wonderful surprise to be greeted with,here at work! I am as amazed by the 3D modeling as I am unclear about the chart. By unclear, I mean simply I lack the skill to interpret what it all means.A genuine neophyte,as it were.

To begin, I remain mildly intrigued by her "light ship" displacement of 9033lbs considering Bolger's 7 odd thousand pound displacement figure shown on the plans. That is, I have difficulty seeing where and/or how I managed to add about a ton of extra weight to the boat. But as I say, I am intrigued but not worrying over the difference.At least she floats right side up!

So, if you were teaching a fresh class of wannabe designers or passionate builders and popped up your graph on the overhead projector, how would you begin to explain, in near laymans' terms, what the curves suggests?

To give you an idea of the "denseness" of one of your "students", allow me to open with how I am understanding the chart:

I see how the three curves represent the same boat in three different load states as it begins to heal. The right hand column is showing the force required to get the boat to heal,in feet, or the number of feet to right her from that angle? How much does a foot weigh?


I see also that up to and a little over 15 degrees of heal, it requires a steady increase in force to get her to heal but that after around 20 degrees it requires less force to continue putting her over on her side or would that be less force to right her from greater angles of heal?


The dashed "slope" line,is an arbitrary line showing how an un-tip-able boat would plot as force was applied to heal her?

As I am not familiar with how other boats would plot on the same graph, I'm not clear whether the boat is an easy push-over or a bulldog full of healing resistance.


I'm obviously out of my element in understanding the chart and terminology.For example: is downflooding the opposite of upfloating or does it mean the point where a boat begins to sink beyond rescue?

I look forward to this wonderful new method of understanding my boats' characteristrics, as do others too I imagine.

Thank you very much Tad for this opportunity and the effort you have clearly put into this online education exercise!




Cheers!


Peter

[P.L.Lenihan]

You know, during the building of this boat, I had many wonderful dreams of cruising around, gracefully taking in the scenery, soaking up cold beers and chatting away with Nat about how spoiled we are. Never once did I have a nightmare about the boat. Sure, there was some pesty fretting at launch time as to how she would float but nothing a cold beer(s) couldn't deal with and it was of short duration.

These two model images however are the stuff of nightmares! And this is in her "arrival" condition?? I really hope I am understanding things ass-end-backwards(wouldn't be the first time!). I also hope Nat doesn't see these before she goes to bed or she will have nightmares and begin thinking this has all been some sort of plot and that I'm out to drown us all!

In the mean time,I'll just keep repeating to myself,"Tad is the man!Tad will explain!" "Tad is the man!Tad will explain!"
That ought to keep my mind busy enough to not engrave these two models in my head.

Cheers!


Peter, the optimistic ten thumbed chimp.


P.S. I'm secretly dazzled by these 3D representations of my boat.....amazing technology!

[flyinwall]

Peter, you have to be out in some kind of lunatic weather for your boat to be in that kind of predicament (i sure hope you are not that kind of fool)

[P.L.Lenihan]

Peter, you have to be out in some kind of lunatic weather for your boat to be in that kind of predicament (i sure hope you are not that kind of fool)

Whaddya mean "some kind of lunatic weather"....just by the size of those waves the wind has to be under 10 knots and,and,and.....it looks like the sun is about to break through the haze any minute! More ice for the beer cooler!!

On the other hand, are you suggesting that the boat will only heal like that in weather most extremis? That would be a relief as I certainly would not intentionally put myself in harms way like that...I hope!

Perhaps then it is just the limits of the computer program that Mr.Roberts is using which does not show 2+ metre waves?



Cheers!



Peter

[Hwyl]

This thread has taken yet another completely cool turn