wood and canvas canoe repair

[herb pike]

I just bid on and won a wood and canvas canoe on ebay item no. 110251747391 and have to do some repairs to wood that they call rub rail. Has anyone had to do similar repairs and how difficult is it? I am thinking that bending the wood and drilling holes for screws would be the most dificult part. Do you have any suggestions?

[Canoez]

Herb,

Can you post a picture of the canoe to give us a better idea of the condition?

Also, you may want to go look over at WCHA.org. This is the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association and they have a forum over there with good information on building and repair of wooden canoes.

[herb pike]

I gave the item no. on ebay if anyone wanted to see pictures of the canoe 110251747391.

[Fitz]

Herb:

The outwales are rotted on that canoe. The outwales are rabbeted to fit over the canvas and planking to fit against the backs of the ribs. You may get away without steam bending the outwales for that canoe but it likely depends on what you use for wood.

Looks like it is time for new canvas, filler, and paint too. Maybe a few ribs etc.

Go here for lots of advice. Good luck with your project.

http://forums.wcha.org/index.php?

[herb pike]

Thanks FITZ, Outwales is what it is called instead or rub rails.

[Tom W.]

Herb, there are outwales and inwales, rubrails I guess is the combination. The boat looks like a great rebuild project, certainly new rails, and quite possible recovering are needed. You can make this boat look like new, good buy.

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

.
In my PBK27 kayak, the rubrail is screwed on over the deck/hull canvas join.



Until they take it down, here's a photo of the new Canadian --



In the case of the new canoe, it appears that the outwales are either covering the upper edge of the hull canvas or is in fact what's holding it in place. My guess is the former. If the outwale fastening is similar to my rubrails it should be a relatively easy process to remove the screws, remove the bits of rail, and fit a new rail in place of the original.

The trick will lie in tightening and keeping tight the hull canvas while you do it.

I think the answer will lie in refastening the canvas to the frames (copper tacks) before you start on the new outwale. And further, I think that you should remove the other outwale as well so as to be able to tighten the canvas uniformly on both sides, working from one end to the other, before replacing both outwales. (There seems to be some rot in them anyway, so you'll want to replace them with new ones in any case.)

The tear should be fixable with a canvas patch glued on the inside.

If the worst comes to the worst (and assuming a sound wooden structure,) the whole hull canvas could be replaced -- the technique here being to remove the brass rubbing strip and keel and bilge keels if any, tacking the canvas along full length along the keelson first, then working from one end stretching the canvas up both sides at each station till you get to the other end. You will need a series of tucks at the ends, and the best way to work them out is to study the original before removal. Use 18 oz canvas, giving it several coats of paint for toughness and watertightness.

Then you can go ahead and replace the keel and outwales as above.

And good luck with it.

Mike

[herb pike]

Thanks Mike, Sounds like good information that I badly needed.

[Fitz]

Here are some shots of canvassing if you choose to go that route. This is the upside down method:





Stretch the canvas tight enough to remove major wrinkles, pull the canvas tight with pliers and secure at each rib with stainless staples, or brass or copper tacks. The fastener should go through the canvas, the rib and into the inwale.

Do up each end by overlapping the canvas and fastening.



Apply canoe filler to fill the weave of the canvas.



Let canoe filler dry four to six weeks. Sand, prime, sand, paint, sand paint etc.

[Greg Nolan]

You really should replace that canvas now, before you put new outwales on the canoe. Canvas replacement is considered fairly ordinary maintenance on a wood/canvas canoe, and the covering on your canoe is not in good condition -- in addition to the small rip on the bottom (easily patched if that were the only problem), there is at least one other tear and the the canvas is very ill fitting -- too many wrinkles and ripples all along the sides of the hull.

If you do not replace the canvas now, you will just be delaying the inevitable, and will be kicking yourself in a year or two removing the new outwales that you just put on.

On a canoe, the term rub rails usually applies to a strip of wood running the length of the outside of the canoe, some 4-6 inches below the outwale. They are not common, and your boat does not have them.

With just a bit a work, you will have a very nice boat.

You should get the wood/canvas canoe maintenance/repair bible -- "The Wood and Canvas Canoe: A Complete Guide to Its History, Construction, Restoration, and Maintenance" by Jerry Stelmok and Rollin Thurlow. New, it's about $20, and can be got used at Amazon for half that.

And I second the recommendation to visit the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association site, especially the forums. Their store has many books on canoes, canoeing, and canoe maintenance. On the WCHA Forums you will find a wealth of information, and a good source of friendly, knowledgeable advice: http://forums.wcha.org/

[Canoez]

With the condition of the outwale, I'd be reluctant to try to save that canvas. The condition is probably poor from either mold or dry rot. Also, depending on the age of the canvas, you will want to take appropriate measures to protect yourself from potential exposure to white lead in the filler used on the canvas.

Also, if you need to do replacement of any of the ribs or planking due to rot, you will want to remove the canvas first anyway. Stretching canvas isn't that hard, you just need some extra hands and simple equipment. (EDITED : Fitz's pictures show what it's about)

Good reading is The Wood and Canvas Canoe by Jerry Stelmok and Rollin Thurlow available from our hosts.

When removing the outwale, be sure to try to save some of it to get the profile (The rabbet that Fitz is referring to..) so that you can make a good reproduction. Take LOTS of pictures before you do anything so that you know what it looked like.

Do you know what brand and type of canoe this is? (Logos, S/N, stylistic elements...)

[Canoez]

Supplies for wooden canoes are easily available - the WCHA has a list of vendors. We like Old Town, Bill Clements and American Traders when we get supplies. Tacks, brass stem band, canvas, filler and seaming pliers are the things to get. A come-along and hefty ropes/chains can be borrowed. For finish, we ususally use porch-and-floor enamel paint which is readily available at local hardware stores.

Be sure to take a good look at the hull to make sure it is not warped or twisted, too..

[chainyank]

I´ll put a plug in as well for Rollin Thurlow´s book, it is a must if you own a W/C canoe. It will be the best 20 dollars you spent on your canoe. I can say as well that you should recanvas now, the job is half done for you with that outwale all rotted off, it will take an hour to get the rest off, and not much longer to get to a bare hull, where you can see how to outside looks. The inside looks good, but take the time when you get her home to look REAL CLOSE to all the ribs, planking stems, for cracks, I mean real close. With the canvas off, nows the time to make any replacements. All of this work is quite manageable, the key is catching thing when the time is right. It is always sad to see a few cracked ribs when the first coat of varnish goes on the inside!!

By the way, Rollin also sells supplies, and even canvas filler, at http://www.wooden-canoes.com/material.htm

HEY FITZ nice job on your canoe by the way, looks good!

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

I have read all the pertinent books on wood/canvas canoe construction and I had to conclude that there is a definite learning curve to all the various skills that have to be mastered to bring a WC back to life. And to increase the value of the boat the work has to be done properly. So, now is the time to determine whether or not you are in for the long haul. Shortcomings in the reconstruction will be hard to hide.
Good luck.

[Pernicious Atavist]

That's a second on the book! Welcome to the forum, and enjoy your project!

[herb pike]

Thanks everyone for all your help. I do not know the age or maker.