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Thread: Lofting the Brewer catboat

  1. #4866
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Don’t know why I am surprised that you drilled the screw holes before cutting your scarfs, Jim. You can do anything you darn well decide!


  2. #4867
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquinian View Post
    Don’t know why I am surprised that you drilled the screw holes before cutting your scarfs, Jim. You can do anything you darn well decide!


    Well, no I can't, and that's not quite what happened, let me explain. But thanks anyway for the vote of confidence.

    The remaining top layer of ply, which is not seen in this photo, is comprised of three pieces. The first is a four foot wide piece that covers the central portion of the deck. This piece has two longitudinal scarfs, and will be fastened down first. After fitting around the stem it was held in place with four screws.

    The other two pieces are roughly triangular in shape. The longitudinal scarfs were cut first and notches cut to fit against the protruding bulkheads. Then the pieces were located with a few screws. Then the athwartship scarfs could be marked and cut.

    Sequence is everything.

    Once all the pieces were fitted, then the screw pattern was laid out and drilled.

    Unlike the rest of the desk, the mahogany edge here will be glued in after the ply has been installed. The edge pieces have been fitted but not scarfed on their after ends. The reasoning is that the edging will span two pieces of ply and is also let into the stem, so it's just easier to glue it in afterwards.

    'Nother thing, the center piece of ply, the one that spans the king plank, will be glued into a bed of 3M 5200, instead of being glued with epoxy. It's just a more flexible bond over the solid king plank. The scarfs and the remaining two pieces will be epoxy glued to the bottom layer of ply.

    Don't worry, I'll have pictures.




  3. #4868
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    That's a good price on the screws. I just bought a box of 4" # 18s that were $2.10 each. Ouch! They were for my caprails as well.

    The best deal was a five gallon bucketfull of #14's for $500. All the planking screws and then some.



    Quote Originally Posted by capehorn3 View Post
    I always seem to "find" those saved bits AFTER I've gone with something else, memory.


    Patience is the key here.


    Quote Originally Posted by simonmags View Post
    I'm almost surprised that your neighbour down the road didn't have a spare box of silicon Bronze screws in her shed for you 

    Lovely to watch the boat progress as always Jim.

    She did, Simon, just not the right size for the application.


    As promised...the center piece of the foredeck ply, about to be fastened down. We're looking here at a lovely even coating of 5200 sealant spread with much effort,ready to receive the top layer of ply. The piece of ply has been coated with epoxy, washed and sanded. When put in place it gets screwed down along the centerline and the fastening proceeds outboard in rows, so not to trap air. The fore and aft scarf edges get clamped with cauls.

    The outer two pieces will be glued with epoxy in the conventional manner after the 5200 has set.

    So, I'm halfway through spreading the goop and I look down. I had to go to court that morning, and for that reason I had on my best sweatshirt. "Prolly not a good thing if Tracey sees me now", I thought and put the trowel down to go change back into Speckly Jim. Turns out though, that I didn't get any on me anyway...well, 'cept for a little dab on my finger end.


    Jim


    Last edited by Jim Ledger; 04-07-2018 at 07:38 AM.

  4. #4869
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    This project will be ten years old in less than a month! Are you planning a party?

  5. #4870
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Hazard View Post
    This project will be ten years old in less than a month! Are you planning a party?

    Rob, what I'm planning for a month from now is to break up the basement floor, haul the broken pieces up the stairs and put it all into a dumpster. Yes, there will be free beer.



    The local millwork outfit call me this morning to tell me my order was ready. I had them resaw some lumber into veneers. This material is slated to become the cabin sides and cockpit coaming. The darker wood is from a couple of Honduras Mahogany planks that I've been saving. This will be used for the inner layer inside the cabin and the entire outer layer. The lighter material is Alaskan Yellow Cedar and will be used for the core veneers.

    I'm thinking that four layers ought to give me a reasonable thickness.


  6. #4871
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    What’s the total thickness?
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  7. #4872
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    What’s the total thickness?
    Hiya, Mark, four layers squeezed together measure .85", a light seven eighths. With three glue lines added I think I'll be close enough to the inch thickness indicated on the plans.

  8. #4873
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Are you going to build a bending form and glue up the house sides off the boat?

  9. #4874
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    I’m curious how you’ll orient the grain with an even number of plies.

  10. #4875
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by willin woodworks View Post
    Are you going to build a bending form and glue up the house sides off the boat?

    Nosir, whatever I do will be done directly on the boat. It's a gray area right now and I don't want to overthink it. No sense getting overloaded with too much conjecture this early in the game.




    Quote Originally Posted by John Husky View Post
    Im curious how youll orient the grain with an even number of plies.

    That's an easy one, John, all the grain will run fore and aft, laminated up like one big oval board.

  11. #4876
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Back in the day these coamings were steam bent.
    Plate 55.jpgPlate 60.jpg
    Laminating will be more work and take longer, but far less risky.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  12. #4877
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Im going out on a limb and thinking there might be some steaming going on here soon.. I for one am looking foward to seeing how Mr. Ledger attacks this one.

  13. #4878
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Back in the day these coamings were steam bent.

    Laminating will be more work and take longer, but far less risky.


    Not back in your day, Nick, surely.


    Laminating might not be more work if you factor in the associated tasks that would go along with steaming. The first would be finding a suitable piece of bending oak, something on the order of two plus feet wide and thirty feet long. You would need such a timber to put the joints at the cabin bulkhead and to account for the heavy sheer and the camber of the cabin sides. The actual shape would be a long lazy "W" curve. Once found a massive steambox would have to be cobbled together. Before the timber could be steamed, however, the boathouse would have to be dismantled to make room, there not being a whole lot of room up at deck level.

    Laminating is starting to look like a real alternative here.

  14. #4879
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Putting a scarf midway between front and back on both port and starboard sides and selecting stock from a curved butt sawn belly up will reduce the amount of waste. You don't want a fire in your shed, so put the steam box outside.
    That will be how they did it before they had glues for laminating.

    Laminating will eat the same amount of timber as steaming 'cos you are creating the same piece either way. Following with interest as ever.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
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  15. #4880
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    The tight radius on my Rambler build at the aft section of cockpit coamings was done with multiple layers of cypress. I used 3/32” lams and built it up to about 1”. I ran the grain at 90 intervals with the inner and outermost layers horizontal.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  16. #4881
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Laminating will eat way more timber, Nick, don't you worry. It already has and I haven't even started yet. That pile of timber was twice the height.

  17. #4882
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Are the slices of laminate thin enough to make the bend around the front of the house without steaming?

  18. #4883
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    The tight radius on my Rambler build at the aft section of cockpit coamings was done with multiple layers of cypress. I used 3/32” lams and built it up to about 1”. I ran the grain at 90 intervals with the inner and outermost layers horizontal.
    That's where the tightest bend occurs on this boat, too, Mark. That's the worry, right there. Luckily, in that area the only mahogany lamination is on the outside.

    The cockpit coaming, across the stern, is straight and stands plumb. I'll probably use a solid board for this section, scarfing the ends into the corner pieces.

  19. #4884
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by willin woodworks View Post
    Are the slices of laminate thin enough to make the bend around the front of the house without steaming?
    Here's an experiment I did a while back, bending a piece of yellow cedar around in order to establish the curve of the front of the cabin.





    After that I glued up a piece wider than needed to see how it behaved. This bent around okay, and is thicker than the stuff I have on hand now. It's the mahogany that concerns me the most.



  20. #4885
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    I bent phillipine mahogany into a 24 inch radius without steaming but that was on a form with pawls every 4 inches and it was only 4 inches wide and just a heavy 1/8. The final thickness was a heavy 5/8 of four lams.

    Bending those big wide pieces is going to be a challenge.

  21. #4886
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by willin woodworks View Post
    I bent phillipine mahogany into a 24 inch radius without steaming but that was on a form with pawls every 4 inches and it was only 4 inches wide and just a heavy 1/8. The final thickness was a heavy 5/8 of four lams.

    Bending those big wide pieces is going to be a challenge.

    The sides are an easy bend. The front of the cabin shouldn't be too hard. It's the aft corners that might take some work. But, we're not there yet so there's no point in worrying too much. A way will be found.



    Meanwhile, up on the bow the last pieces of plywood have been fastened down. The central piece, as you no doubt remember, has been glued down with 5200. A week has passed and the white stuff has turned rubbery enough to cut. The two flanking pieces of ply have just been glued down in the usual fashion using epoxy. There's a longitudinal scarf under the two cauls. The aft ends of the flanking pieces are also scarfed, into the side decking.

    The mahogany edge has been left off these pieces, and will be fitted and glued on once the edge rabbet has been cleaned of glue. The rabbet in the stem is visible where the edging will end up.

    The holes for the vents have been cut out and a copper tube tried for fit. This is the pipe that goes into the dorade box.



  22. #4887
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Loving it!
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  23. #4888
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Have those veneers been through a thickness sander Jim ? It's a very fine finish.

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  24. #4889
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Have those veneers been through a thickness sander Jim ? It's a very fine finish.

    Yes, Peter, they were sanded after resawing. However, considering the number of slices they managed to get the sawing must have been very accurate with little clean-up involved.

  25. #4890
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Giving you a bump Jim,

    Your workmanship is astounding and the way you're walking us through it deserves to be a book.

    Hope life isn't getting too much in the way of the build.

  26. #4891
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by rkymtnsailor View Post
    Giving you a bump Jim,

    Your workmanship is astounding and the way you're walking us through it deserves to be a book.

    Hope life isn't getting too much in the way of the build.

    Thank you, Sir, your appreciation is most welcome, and, no, life is not getting in the way of building any more than is usual.

    The plywood deck is complete and the work no is concentrated on getting a couple of layers of Dynel on top of the plywood. Here is a picture showing the first layer of Dynel across the aft section of the deck. The side deck has been prepped, holes filled, pre-coated with resin and then sanded ready for the first Dynel layer. The ends of the Dynel are scarfed, that is, the edge of the bottom layer has been beveled, and the top layer will overlap and be faired in.




    Meanwhile, up near the bow things are moving along, holes filled, pre-coated with resin There are a couple of low spots that are being brought up to level with cloth patches, one of which is visible here. Once these patches are faired in the top layers of Dynel will be applied over all.



  27. #4892
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Ten years today. What a great thread.

    Jim, any stability issues with the big timbers, the keel, deadwood?

  28. #4893
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by willin woodworks View Post
    Ten years today. What a great thread.

    Jim, any stability issues with the big timbers, the keel, deadwood?
    There's been some shrinkage of the timbers in the deadwood, but that happened years ago and has long since stabilized. It was reported at the time. There has been no problem with any warping or distortion of the backbone timbers beyond shrinkage. I intend packing the joints with slick seam before launch and expect the gaps to take up when she's in the water. The keel/bedlog joint at the centerboard trunk, and the keel/stem joint remain as tight as the day they were made.

  29. #4894
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Still peaking,,,,,

  30. #4895
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    I find that many times I am thinking about how difficult something might be and
    then the time comes to do it, and it actually works out better than I expected in my imagination.
    I love the smell of fresh cut plywood in the morning.

  31. #4896
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by erster View Post
    Still peaking,,,,,

    Yep, and I'm still making it worth your while!


    Quote Originally Posted by donald branscom View Post
    I find that many times I am thinking about how difficult something might be and
    then the time comes to do it, and it actually works out better than I expected in my imagination.

    Right you are there, Donald, and hardly a day passes without my thinking the same!


    Jim
    Last edited by Jim Ledger; 05-03-2018 at 09:04 AM.

  32. #4897
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Ten years and still going strong. If only we all could say the same!

    Three cheers for Jim's unwavering focus!

  33. #4898
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by donald branscom View Post
    I find that many times I am thinking about how difficult something might be and
    then the time comes to do it, and it actually works out better than I expected in my imagination.
    Yes I’ve put off jobs because I considered them difficult, only to find they weren’t.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  34. #4899
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    The glassing of the deck continues.

    I find that if I wait a few days after applying epoxy the material hardens up to a point where it sands more readily. Where it sands into dust instead of just balling up in the sandpaper. This strategy leads to working on the deck on several fronts while waiting for other areas to reach that sweet spot of the cure.

    There are to be two layers of Dynel laid down on top of the plywood deck. The picture below shows the both bottom layer and the top. The bottom layer is to the left. The top layer, on the right has had its edge tapered to receive the next piece. The edge was tapered with an angle grinder and some hand sanding. The next sheet of the top layer will overlap the taper. Once the resin has cured the edge of the new sheet can be sanded flat to the touch, the glass effectively scarfed together with no seam showing.



  35. #4900
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    I've got to ask: Why two layers of glass? Is the Dynel not as strong as normal fiberglass cloth or is this just you being extra diligent?
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

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