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Thread: Lofting the Brewer catboat

  1. #4306
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    The one lunger could be an option, but my dear wife would not be amused with that thing banging away right at her feet. It's hard enough as it is to get her out on a boat.
    Anxiously awaiting whatever component comes next on your cat. Always fun to watch.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  2. #4307
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post

    Here's the knees with their ends shaped, and the doubler on the forward pair cut to a profile.






    Nice, especially the concavity of the doubler, love seeing these details handled with care, true workmanship! Were these the laminations you did with TBIII? can't remember
    Last edited by Skegemog; 03-18-2017 at 10:33 AM.

  3. #4308
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Skegemog View Post
    Nice, especially the concavity of the doubler, love seeing these details handled with care, true workmanship! Were these the laminations you did with TBIII? can't remember


    Thanks for the kind words, and yes, those are the Titebond III laminations.



    There are now a number of parts finished and waiting to be fastened in. I have to admit here that I have not been at this long enough to have lost the trepidatious feeling that comes with finally nailing something on..."the boat". There's real commitment there, let me tell you. It's gonna be there forever. Foreeeeeeevvvvvver. So minimum standards must be met.

    That being so, here's the breasthook in its final resting place, bolted in with handmade artisanal bolts. Those are 3/8" bolts through the sheer clamp, rivet heads over roves one end and threaded the other. The hole for the stem bolt is clearly visible.

    The king plank will be bolted to the top surface


    Last edited by Jim Ledger; 03-20-2017 at 07:16 PM.

  4. #4309
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    Default

    Now that looks nice.
    -Dave

  5. #4310
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Aim true when drilling for the kingplank bolts. Would really suck to hit one of those artisanal bolts of yours.
    If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.
    -Henry David Thoreau-

  6. #4311
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor View Post
    Aim true when drilling for the kingplank bolts. Would really suck to hit one of those artisanal bolts of yours.
    Thanks, Wox!

    Sailor, ain't that just the worst...drilling for a bolt and hitting something metal? It's...it's...just humbling. Not for long, but at the moment, yeah. It's always when I'm just dialed in and can do no wrong and thinking I'm Gods, gif...brrrrtttt...WTF...where did that come from! Oh, yeah... Got so bad I have to rest my drill hand on something to get the tremble under control before I start drilling. Why, just the other day, there I was, bunging up yet another wayward hole, pouring epoxy in from the top and thanking my lucky stars there's no one from the Forum here to see my now.

    It's not all bad, tho, here's the breasthook from underneath. Those rivets are ever so slightly counterbored, like the hole for the stem bolt. They're set in just enough that the roves sit flat, no more. None of the bolts are bored at a right angle to the face, so something needs to be done so that the roves bear evenly on the wood. On rougher work in softer wood the bolts would just be drawn up to crush the wood, but this work demands a more careful approach, for appearance and to maximize the effectiveness of the bolts. The washers on the other ends of the bolts have been counterbored also, just enough to sit flat.



    Last edited by Jim Ledger; 03-21-2017 at 08:19 AM.

  7. #4312
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    You could cast yourself some nifty tapered washers to use instead......
    If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.
    -Henry David Thoreau-

  8. #4313
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Just letting you know I'm still lurking . . . watching everything you do. Looking great!
    Chuck Thompson

  9. #4314
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Hey Jim, love the bespoke fasteners... are you bedding these parts as you do final assembly? I know you pre-finished or at least sealed them, sorry to be so nosey, Jim

  10. #4315
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Noyce!

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  11. #4316
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    The forward deck frame requires a lot of bolting. The hanging knees alone need 42 bolts, mast partner to sheer clamp, eight bolts, and then there's the king plank to the breasthook, partner, deck beams, a few more through the frame tops and sheer clamp...it adds up.

    Many of these will come from my secret supply of old bronze brought back from the land of Ebay. Many more will be made up as required from bronze rod stock. One of the things that makes bolt-making somewhat feasible is this threading die which I found on Craigslist for a hunnert bucks. A few tries threading with a regular die holder will have you convinced that there's got to be a better way. The problem is getting started square, because, if you don't the threads will soon start to run to one side. This threader solves that by having a holder that lines the rod up with the die. The other advantages are leverage and racheting. I've spent a lifetime pissing good money away on fool things like this...and look where it's gotten me, Johnny Threadsall over here, "need something threaded? Yeah, bring it round" That vise? Parted with cash there, as well, sucker for that stuff.

    Hey, you see that bit of threaded rod with the nut on it? Yeah? It's a depth gauge for the bolts. Tap it in the hole, run the nut up and there's the exact length you want...exact, because who wants to have to cut of the end of a bolt? Good luck with that most of the time.



  12. #4317
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    The dumb end of the bolts is an upset rivet head over a lathe-turned rove. These roves are a pain in the ass to make and wastefull as hell, but they do the job and keep me off the Internet for a couple of hours at least. The roves have a small chamfer on the center hole facing up. The outer face of the roves are tapered, but there's a little flat left where the rivet sits. The rod is 3/8" silicon bronze, smacked with a good-sized hammer until it forms a pleasing roundish dome, tight at the edges, no splitting. There would have been about an eighth of an inch of rod projecting to make that head.



  13. #4318
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Jim do you anneal the bronze before forming the rivet heads or just lay in with the hammer ?

  14. #4319
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    I once heated bronze rod red hot and it just got crumbly. I'm not sure hot hot it has to get to anneal. No matter, though, the rivet heads are all formed up cold without any annealing. You have to realize, though, that you can rivet much easier in a vise than in position on the boat...unless the work is out in the open, like a floor timber to a keel. In that cast the drift will likely take some hammering in and the rivet head can be domed up when it's about a half inch from home, and won't that look nice!

  15. #4320
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    This one of the reasons Australian boatbuilders used easily worked copper instead of (expensive) alloys. A 45 foot prawn trawler would be all copper fastened, the largest size in the backbone being 1/2''. Nuts were gunmetal (leaded bronze) which may be the same as your red brass?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunmetal
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  16. #4321
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Skegemog View Post
    Hey Jim, love the bespoke fasteners... are you bedding these parts as you do final assembly? I know you pre-finished or at least sealed them, sorry to be so nosey, Jim

    Thanks, guys.

    I bedded the breasthook in PL Premium construction adhesive. As these parts are absolutely non-removable once installed I see no problem with using an adhesive here. Even if this part were bedded in Dolphinite it would still have to be cut out to effect a repair due to the crossed bolts and drifts. Even if you could somehow remove every visible bolt, which you can't due to buried heads, there still would be some invisible drifts holding the piece in. And even then, assuming you could melt the fasteners out in their entirety, the breasthook would still be stuck fast by the layers of construction added on top.

    So I glued the sucker in, call me a bad carpenter.

    Go on.

  17. #4322
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    So I glued the sucker in, call me a bad carpenter.

    Go on.
    I'm a little surprised you didn't employ the Japanese "suri awase" technique when marrying the breasthook to sheer clamp, preferably followed with blind floating dovetails..... I mean c'mon, there are standards to uphold here on the WBF

  18. #4323
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    Thanks, guys.

    I bedded the breasthook in PL Premium construction adhesive. As these parts are absolutely non-removable once installed I see no problem with using an adhesive here. Even if this part were bedded in Dolphinite it would still have to be cut out to effect a repair due to the crossed bolts and drifts. Even if you could somehow remove every visible bolt, which you can't due to buried heads, there still would be some invisible drifts holding the piece in. And even then, assuming you could melt the fasteners out in their entirety, the breasthook would still be stuck fast by the layers of construction added on top.

    So I glued the sucker in, call me a bad carpenter.

    Go on.

    I believe the phrase is Glued, Screwed, and Tattooed.


    I pity the poor soul who would ever endeavor to replace anything in the forward 1/3 of the boat.
    There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

    Ben Sebens, RN

  19. #4324
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    This one of the reasons Australian boatbuilders used easily worked copper instead of (expensive) alloys. A 45 foot prawn trawler would be all copper fastened, the largest size in the backbone being 1/2''. Nuts were gunmetal (leaded bronze) which may be the same as your red brass?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunmetal
    I thought they were just stingy.

    Rick

  20. #4325
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    The bolt pattern for the hanging knees. The vertical drifts have nuts and washers on their upper ends, counterbored into the top of the partner. I particularly like the outboard drift as the slant really draws the knee home. The bolts into the face I've placed as best I can, the problem being that the forward face of the frame is quite narrow up here in the bow and there's only a narrow band of possibilty for the bolt placement



  21. #4326
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    I thought they were just stingy.

    Rick
    Ask David what he thinks Rick, I seem to remember copper being quite malleable being a consideration.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  22. #4327
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Longtime lurkers might recall the making of a couple of plywood shelves for the forepeak. They've recently been dragged out and given a brush off and a coat of primer. Only now...only after the last bolt has been driven home on the hanging knees, can this shelf be installed.




  23. #4328
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    You are making some good progress here, Jim! Looking good

    Rick

  24. #4329
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeye54 View Post
    You are making some good progress here, Jim! Looking good

    Rick

    Thanks, Rick, I'm glad to have that piece of work behind me. The way is clear for some real progress now.



    The two forepeak shelves need a filler piece on their forward end to connect them into one. This filler needs to be fitted in between the shelves after the shelves are already in place. Here's the filler, with a rabbeted edge, being fitted to the shelves.



  25. #4330
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Ask David what he thinks Rick, I seem to remember copper being quite malleable being a consideration.
    I was trying to be funny. Yes, I'm sure copper was preferred for that reason.

    Rick

  26. #4331
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post

    The two forepeak shelves need a filler piece on their forward end to connect them into one. This filler needs to be fitted in between the shelves after the shelves are already in place. Here's the filler, with a rabbeted edge, being fitted to the shelves.


    I'm getting vicarious satisfaction seeing your forethought RE: order of operations paying off in these follow on steps. I would find it hard not to feel smug being able to fit this keystone piece by striking a few lines, well done, definitely a master class on process and practice!

  27. #4332
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Skegemog View Post
    I'm getting vicarious satisfaction seeing your forethought RE: order of operations paying off in these follow on steps. I would find it hard not to feel smug being able to fit this keystone piece by striking a few lines, well done, definitely a master class on process and practice!

    "Aw, shoot, it ain't that hard", he drawled, spitting into the sawdust. A smug, self-satisfied grin stole across one side of his mug, disappearing 'fore you was sure you seen it. "Them's mighty kind words, all the same."




    The shelf will have a radiused shape cut into the insert.


  28. #4333
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    "Aw, shoot, it ain't that hard", he drawled, spitting into the sawdust. A smug, self-satisfied grin stole across one side of his mug, disappearing 'fore you was sure you seen it. "Them's mighty kind words, all the same."




    The shelf will have a radiused shape cut into the insert.

    Well, there it is.

    Spitting is a NASTY habit, Mr. Ledger.

    I always enjoy coming here to learn how it's done. The whole package, , though mean. The building, sure, but also the documenting. This thread is as wonderful because of you as the work you're doing, sir.
    I chuckle often at your brand of humor, and always seethe with envy at your pictures.

    I really like the picture in 4327. Very lovely.

    Peace,
    Robert

  29. #4334
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Well, there it is.

    Spitting is a NASTY habit, Mr. Ledger.

    I always enjoy coming here to learn how it's done. The whole package, , though mean. The building, sure, but also the documenting. This thread is as wonderful because of you as the work you're doing, sir.
    I chuckle often at your brand of humor, and always seethe with envy at your pictures.

    I really like the picture in 4327. Very lovely.

    Peace,
    Robert
    Thanks, Rob, it's always good to hear from you. And yes, I agree, it is a good thread. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that just reading this thread will make you a better woodworker. Yup, it's that good. Somethings going to rub off..one day you'll catch yourself doing one of my tricks and mebbe you think, "Whoa, Jim was right, this does work better!"




    The shelf in the forepeak needs some kind of edge to strengthen the plywood and to keep things in place. The edge is going to be a mahogany lamination, five layers of an eighth of an inch thickness each, for a total thickness of five eighths inch by three and a half inches high.. Here's the glue-up, T III glue



  30. #4335
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Tight bend! Did you have to apply some steam to the wood?
    Steve

    Boats, like whiskey, are all good.
    R.D Culler

  31. #4336
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by stromborg View Post
    Tight bend! Did you have to apply some steam to the wood?
    The laminations bent around without too much trouble. I tried ripping the first lamination at an eighth and it seemed like it would work so I sawed the rest out the same. The laminations were cut on the bandsaw and the saw marks planed off on the bench, by hand, as an experiment.

  32. #4337
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    What type of mahogany?
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  33. #4338
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    "Aw, shoot, it ain't that hard", he drawled, spitting into the sawdust. A smug, self-satisfied grin stole across one side of his mug, disappearing 'fore you was sure you seen it. "Them's mighty kind words, all the same."
    I almost hurt myself laughing at this, thanks! As for the rest of this magnum opus, I can't say thanks enough.

  34. #4339
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    The bolt pattern for the hanging knees. The vertical drifts have nuts and washers on their upper ends, counterbored into the top of the partner. I particularly like the outboard drift as the slant really draws the knee home. The bolts into the face I've placed as best I can, the problem being that the forward face of the frame is quite narrow up here in the bow and there's only a narrow band of possibilty for the bolt placement
    Just curious what method or fixture you used, given the tight spaces, to align your drill as you drilled the holes out for the bolts here?

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