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Thread: Lofting the Brewer catboat

  1. #6336
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeye54 View Post
    Some great progress there, Jim - but you are going to close off your dust / chip clearance spaces

    That was the plan all along, Rick, it can't be helped. Planking up will put pressure on me to finish certain projects before too much longer. Painting the forepeak, for example, is much better done with some light and air available, rather than in the dark breathing heavy fumes.

  2. #6337
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Let's fit a plank.

    Here's a good example that involves some degree of difficulty, there's a lot of twist, the back of the plank needs quite a bit of hollowing to fit against the frames, and the top edge needs to be heavily beveled to fit against the plank above. I might add that the bevel changes quickly due to the shape of the hull in this area.


    Where to begin? As it stands we've already begun as the top edge fits rather closely to the top plank. A thin spiling batten was first bent around and an approximation of the edge shape was picked up and then transferred to the actual plank. I say approximate because, due to the twist and the batten sitting on the curved frames, you can't get an accurate spile. Close is good enough.

    The first thing I'm going to do is to back out the plank, because then it will be able to get clamped to the frame in it's true orientation.

    I should add that the forward three feet of this plank have been scarfed on, on the bench. So, we're really invested in this plank before any shaping begins.



  3. #6338
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    I'm closely watching ' A plank fitting tutorial ' - thanks for taking the time to post this, Jim !!!!

  4. #6339
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeye54 View Post
    I'm closely watching ' A plank fitting tutorial ' - thanks for taking the time to post this, Jim !!!!
    My pleasure, Rick!


    The first thing, and the thing I always forget, is to put on a sirmark to be able to register the plank to the same spot, fore and aft. This mark should be near the balance point of the plank, because this is where your first clamp will go

    You can see that I spiled the top edge. The edge is actually quite parallel to the upper plank. The gap is mostly produced by the square edge.

    The number four penciled on the plank is the finished width of the plank we're working on, four inches. There's a width notation at each frame. While this might seem like a lot of points to mark, you can't have to many points of reference. A few marks will be way out when the batten is sprung to mark the line, why, I don't know, but there are always a few.

    I mark the plank widths to an eighth inch, because it's often difficult to have to go to sixteenths. A plus sign after the fraction will indicate the next sixteenth, it's easy to write, over your head, on your back, in dim light.



  5. #6340
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    I know I said that I'd hollow the back of the plank first, but I think I'll get a rough bevel along the top edge, just to start things off. There's a scribed line, the same one as in the previous photo. The edge was planed off, first with a power plane and then cleaned up by hand. The bevel is the least bevel that occurs along the plank, in other words, the bevel that results in the least amount of material being removed. It's still a considerable amount taken off, but we're on the safe side. This'll allow the plank to get much closed to the other while more precise estimations take place down the line.

    I find this arrangement of handscrews useful when clamping planks on edge



  6. #6341
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Following Jim. Do you measure fitting a plank to done in hours or days? I know I’d be days but it looks to me a long process, one that I don’t think I’d have the patience for. Bravo to you. I’ll shtick to my goop powered building.

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    Default

    Thanks for sharing, Jim. It is good to see your progress and I appreciate it.

    Kevin


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  8. #6343
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    Thanks for sharing, Jim. It is good to see your progress and I appreciate it.

    Kevin

    Thanks for the support, Kevin.


    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Donald View Post
    Following Jim. Do you measure fitting a plank to done in hours or days? I know I’d be days but it looks to me a long process, one that I don’t think I’d have the patience for. Bravo to you. I’ll shtick to my goop powered building.

    Weeks, Andrew, weeks, if you count the time I spend just looking while I try to find the next move. Weeks of slack-jawed gaping goes into this. Keep in mind that some planks are more difficult to fit than others



    I have, to illustrate, this rather badly composed photo.

    The contour gauge has been set to match the curve of one of the frames. The idea is to dish out the back of the plank to fit tightly against the frames. In the photo the dishing-out has begun. I find it helpful to rout a groove up the center of the plank, carefully, and in stages as the depth required becomes apparent. The groove removes quite a bit of material and makes the planing easier, as there id an edge to work instead of a flat surface. The routing is done using a straight bit and fence on the router.

    The gauge has one end marked with a marking pen for an easy reference to which way is up.

    The piece of tape on the edge of the plank indicates which frame is being worked on at any given time. There is a corresponding piece of tape on the actual frame in the boat to reduce the possibility of confusion and error.

    I start at one end, the aft end in this case, and work backwards, planing into the already planed section. The dish is roughly cut one frame at a time and then gone over for a fine-tuning once most of the material is removed.









  9. #6344
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Okay, the top edge of the plank has a rough bevel to match the adjacent plank, the back of the plank is hollowed. Before I clamp the plank back up to measure for further refinement I want to knock off some of the caulking bevel. Not the whole thing, mind, just some of it. The reason for doing this is to get the excess wood out of the way. For all I know the beveled edge might fit just perfectly first time. This has never yet happened, but just to be ready, you see. Should the improbable happen I'd be in a pickle because all I'd see would be a closed tight seam on the outside. What I'm interested in is how close the inner quarter inch is fitting. Getting some of the waste out of the way will allow me to see in there, or better, to get that feeler gauge in there.

    So, here's a caulking bevel trick. You can gauge a couple of lines on the edge and face of the plank and try to carefully plane up to them with minimal going-overage. This is what I used to do. Now I hold a block plane in the position shown in the photo. The important feature here is the throat opening of the plane, it only goes to the gauge line on the edge. I wrap my fingers around the plane to keep it in this orientation, sometimes pulling, sometimes pushing. The cut will automatically widen the seam while not touching the inner section of the edge.

    It's probably an old trick, but it's new to me, and so far it's working well.



  10. #6345
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Here's the fit of the backed-out plank on a frame. This is typical of the rest. Before the backing-out the plank was teetering on one point and it was impossible to get anything like an accurate scribe on the top edge. Now, however, the fit of the edge and caulking seam can be worked in nicely.



  11. #6346
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    Okay, the top edge of the plank has a rough bevel to match the adjacent plank, the back of the plank is hollowed. Before I clamp the plank back up to measure for further refinement I want to knock off some of the caulking bevel. Not the whole thing, mind, just some of it. The reason for doing this is to get the excess wood out of the way. For all I know the beveled edge might fit just perfectly first time. This has never yet happened, but just to be ready, you see. Should the improbable happen I'd be in a pickle because all I'd see would be a closed tight seam on the outside. What I'm interested in is how close the inner quarter inch is fitting. Getting some of the waste out of the way will allow me to see in there, or better, to get that feeler gauge in there.

    So, here's a caulking bevel trick. You can gauge a couple of lines on the edge and face of the plank and try to carefully plane up to them with minimal going-overage. This is what I used to do. Now I hold a block plane in the position shown in the photo. The important feature here is the throat opening of the plane, it only goes to the gauge line on the edge. I wrap my fingers around the plane to keep it in this orientation, sometimes pulling, sometimes pushing. The cut will automatically widen the seam while not touching the inner section of the edge.

    It's probably an old trick, but it's new to me, and so far it's working well.


    Or use steel smoother and adjust iron to cut only one edge?

    Avoiding splinters in fingers.
    Last edited by Chippie; 08-02-2021 at 05:24 AM.

  12. #6347
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippie View Post
    Or use steel smoother and adjust iron to cut only one edge?

    Avoiding splinters in fingers.

    Thanks, Chippie, I'll give it a try.

    As for the splinters, they always seem to get me when my attention is elsewhere.



  13. #6348
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Coincidentally Jim I have just started a garden barrow in oak for my daughter to display flowers and I have done just that.

    The " hopper" that sits on the shafts has ends and sides that angle outward and obviously require angling at the bottom where they land.
    Have you noticed that you only become aware of spelks when you knock of working and the smallest ones are the most painful.?

  14. #6349
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippie View Post
    Coincidentally Jim I have just started a garden barrow in oak for my daughter to display flowers and I have done just that.

    The " hopper" that sits on the shafts has ends and sides that angle outward and obviously require angling at the bottom where they land.

    That sounds like an interesting project, Chippie, I hope you have a nice old iron wheel to build it around. How will you join the sides of the hopper to one another?




    Quote Originally Posted by Chippie View Post
    Have you noticed that you only become aware of spelks when you knock of working and the smallest ones are the most painful.?

    Yes, I've noticed just that. I put it down to the distraction of working and moving around. Once you stop moving you feel every itch, bug bite and splinter. There's a splinter in the side of my thumb that's been coming out for months now. It went straight in and now causes a callus to form as it works its way out. Every so often I slice off the top of the callus, and there it is, a little white dot.

    My daughter used to love removing splinters. All I had to do was look at my hand and say I had one and she would have her kit on the table, scalpels, tweezers, antiseptic, band-aids. She'd start digging and squeezing until she got the prize. I'd tell her that she just liked to hold my hand, which always went over like you might expect.

    Good times

    Jim.

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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    You guys are aware of Ichthammol Ointment for drawing out splinters?

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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    [/QUOTE]




    Quote Originally Posted by capehorn3 View Post
    You guys are aware of Ichthammol Ointment for drawing out splinters?
    Somehow I can't visualise Jim enthusing over that information if you had imparted it then.

  17. #6352
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    The only thing drawing out that bad boy is a pair of pliers....

    Was that from rounding the mast?

  18. #6353
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by willin woodworks View Post
    The only thing drawing out that bad boy is a pair of pliers....

    Was that from rounding the mast?
    I can visualise Jim getting excited over that mind if asked at the time

  19. #6354
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Pliers, yes.




    The half-finished icebox has been underfoot for some time now. It would be good to have it finished and in place before planking much further. There's going to be a platform underpinning the box from beneath and it'll be much easier to do before planking rather than after.


    This is a rack for the icebox. It will be supported on each side by a corian bracket which will also keep the rack from shifting forward and back. There's a teak edge to keep the contents from falling off. This edge will be epoxied onto the rack itself. The bottom of the icebox is covered with two individual racks, under which is a space for cold packs.





  20. #6355
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    [QUOTE=Jim Ledger;6496682]That sounds like an interesting project, Chippie, I hope you have a nice old iron wheel to build it around. How will you join the sides of the hopper to one anothebr />
    I am unable to access as Chippie however I have sent PM by opening a new account.
    Did you recieve?

  21. #6356
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    [QUOTE=Passing thru;6514678][QUOTE=
    I am unable to access as Chippie however I have sent PM by opening a new account.
    Did you recieve?[/QUOTE]


    Here's your PM, Chippie, along with my reply...

    [QUOTE=Passing thru;6514678][QUOTE=Jim Ledger;6496682]That sounds like an interesting project, Chippie, I hope you have a nice old iron wheel to build it around. How will you join the sides of the hopper to one anothebr /> Trouble is I don't want to purchase any more timber ( 87 yrs old) so I am reluctantly using oak that has been waiting for years to be turned into two Grandfather Clock cases but their comeback into fashion only lasted a brief period. Boy am I glad I didn't purchase Kieninger works.

    Normally the 2 sides and ends are morticed and tenoned frames slatted to allow plants to be displayed all round. Bring them together and fasten with small coach screws at corners with heads hiding inside. As they are all full size they tend to get used as "working" barrows between decorative and are built accordingly.

    Regards
    Chippie






    It's a shame that you never got the hang of posting pictures, Chippie, I'd have liked to have seen that. Is it that nice English Brown Oak you're using? If so it'll be the best one around for some distance. There's some satisfaction using materials on hand, you get a nice, shiny object while at the same time gain a bit of shelf space. From what I hear you're lucky to have the material on hand as prices have gone through the roof.

    Look after of yourself and Mrs. Chippie, it's bad times with the virus going around.

    Jim





    I hope you can work out your logging-in problem, can you get in touch with the almighty Scot? Chippie is too good a name to lose. Feel free to post here if you need help sorting this out, we can delete the off-topic posts later on.


    For the rest of you lot, the work continues, but not much noteworthy, much less photogenic.

    Soon, though...


    Jim
    Last edited by Jim Ledger; 08-29-2021 at 12:55 PM.

  22. #6357
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    The following is a photo essay on resawing with skilsaws, a pleasant way to spend an afternoon if you're an obstinate fool with a taste for discomfort and sawdust.


    The planking stock just just under two inches thick, too thick, in fact, for the job. It was available and the price was right, that's all we need to know here. The finished thickness of the planking is fifteen sixteeths of an inch, which means that the planks need to be cut more on the order of an inch and an eighth, due to the backing-out of the planks and the shaping of the outer skin. I could just plane away the surplus wood without too much trouble, but, I want that thin piece that's going to be sawn off, it's good for laminating.


    So, jumping right in, we have a plank held on edge on the horses. The planks run from twelve to sixteen feet, btw. The first cut is made with a worm drive saw turning an eight inch blade. The saw is guided by a wooden fence screwed to the bottom plate to the saw. All I have to do is push...



  23. #6358
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    'All I have to do is push' - Jim, that phrase is a masterful bit of understatement. I continue to be in awe, watching from 'the cheap seats' , with my snack and beverage at hand. Thanks for continuing the documentation of the build. ( BTW, did Hurricane Ida affect your area ? )



    Rick

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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    The worm drive saw is one tool that was seldom seen here in NZ, well not when I was building anyway.
    The introduction of the North American brands here have a few more popping up but mainly of the cordless variety.
    First time I used one was in Canada back in the 90's, was most impressed with the power, ergonomics and general ease of use.

    Looking forward to seeing those planks on.

    Cheers,
    Mike.
    Focus on the effort not the outcome.

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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeye54 View Post
    'All I have to do is push' - Jim, that phrase is a masterful bit of understatement. I continue to be in awe, watching from 'the cheap seats' , with my snack and beverage at hand. Thanks for continuing the documentation of the build. ( BTW, did Hurricane Ida affect your area ? )

    Rick

    Thanks, Rick. Ida was a rain event here with heavy downpours. We were fine here but many nearer to New York City weren't so lucky due to flooding.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1902 View Post
    The worm drive saw is one tool that was seldom seen here in NZ, well not when I was building anyway.
    The introduction of the North American brands here have a few more popping up but mainly of the cordless variety.
    First time I used one was in Canada back in the 90's, was most impressed with the power, ergonomics and general ease of use.

    Looking forward to seeing those planks on.

    Cheers,
    Mike.

    Thanks for your interest, Mike. Skilsaw makes the worm drive saw, it's the only good thing they do make. I find it heavy to pick up and you really need to use both hands, but once it's supported by the wood it's a pleasure to use. It's a powerful saw and due to the gearing it never bogs down in the cut.


    The same can't be said about this next saw, a Makita sixteen inch. This is an early model, perhaps from the Seventies, it really should have died long ago. Newer models are the more recognizable Makita blue. I got this one from Craigslist for two hundred dollars from a guy in Montana. For all its size it's an anemic machine, and slow-turning at that. Every time I use it, which isn't often, I always make a cut with the Skilsaw first to help it along. It does reach down five inches though, so a cut from both edges will cut through a two-by-ten the hard way, which is what I'm doing here. There's a piece of plywood screwed to the base to close up the holes, and a wooden fence screwed to that. I mentioned that the worm drive was heavy to pick up, this one's ridiculous, but once it's sitting on the wood, well...all you have to do is push.


  26. #6361
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    I love my worm drive. I got the Mag77 variant, with a magnesium table, makes it a pound or two lighter, but it bends easily. I made a living with that saw. I finally replaced the trigger last year, and its about due for a new cord. A joist hanger attachment makes it easy to keep at hand when deep into a project.
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    I sometimes go a step further and add a small cleat on the other side of the stock opposite the fence, to help keep the fence snug. I have noticed I can let the saw wander, if I’m not totally diligent.

    I much prefer to rip long stuff this way, since I learned it. A just have a plain old hypoid saw, though; when I got the worm drive, I dedicated the hypoid to ripping duties.

    That giant saw is hilarious awesome. Makes sense it is anemic; that’s a lot of wheel to spin!

  28. #6363
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post

    That giant saw is hilarious awesome. Makes sense it is anemic; that’s a lot of wheel to spin!


    It's a ridiculous saw in many respects, it just looks comically exaggerated. The first time I became aware of one was in the Mariners Catalog, which would have been in the late Seventies. It was listed under the heading..."for those who have everything". I'm sure the newer ones have more oomph than this tired old example because I see Leo from Tally Ho cutting through live oak timbers with a new one, without, I should add, pre-cutting a kerf for the big saw to follow.


    Well, I've sliced up the whole pile...almost the whole pile, I did leave a few for scaffold planks. Doing so was passing a big hurdle in the planking process, now, at least, I have something to work with. I'm sure I don't have enough and more is going to be hard to come by on this coast. It's time to break out the board stretcher, the big 'un, and to dig deep into the trick bag so's there's enough left for a whiskey plank when the time comes.


    Here's an end grain shot of a plank during the slicing operation. I end up getting a nice heavy inch-and-an-eighth plank and a light three-eights one which is good for laminating.




  29. #6364
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    When you find that board stretcher could you send me the details Jim? I’m after one as well.

    And could you remind me what timber you are using for planking stock?
    Larks

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  30. #6365
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Curious as to why you didn’t resaw with a bandsaw?

  31. #6366
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    SailAR, not to speak for Jim - but those boards would be 'a bear' to push thru a bandsaw, I would think . . . .



    ( I am just a rookie wood butcher )

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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    The planking timber is Alaskan Yellow Cedar, Greg..

    The planks are too heavy and unwieldy to push through a bandsaw. Few among them are straight, most curve in two directions, which further complicates using a bandsaw. A hand-held skilsaw can follow the curves, but you do have to try and place the fence on the outside of the curve.

    Thanks for helping me out there, Rick.

  33. #6368
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Jim, when we built our store, back in 1999, I got 'an opportunity' to carry six 16 inch by 12 foot pine planks down the back stairwell of an 1853 commercial building ( built storage shelves in the basement) - I was (obviously) younger then, but it was no picnic - I imagine it is about the same hefting those planking timbers onto the sawhorses for resawing.



    Rick ( still up here in the bleachers following along )

  34. #6369
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeye54 View Post
    Jim, when we built our store, back in 1999, I got 'an opportunity' to carry six 16 inch by 12 foot pine planks down the back stairwell of an 1853 commercial building ( built storage shelves in the basement) - I was (obviously) younger then, but it was no picnic - I imagine it is about the same hefting those planking timbers onto the sawhorses for resawing.



    Rick ( still up here in the bleachers following along )
    Do it a half at a time. That way, you are only lifting half of the weight.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  35. #6370
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    And the more "Beam" you have overhanging the horse the first time up means you are lifting less at the other end.

    Material handling gets challenging as the years slide by.....I can't believe how heavy a sheet of 3/4 ply is these days...

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