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Thread: Lofting the Brewer catboat

  1. #4376
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Finally the big day arrived. The ripping turned out to have been a tad generous, erring on the side of caution, knowing I could always rip them again but close enough that I'd be afraid to. A lump hammer and block coaxed them into position, but the first one was like playing Whack-a-mole as the previous slats jumped up out of their slots. The clamping seen here, on the second grate, helped that.

    If this had been a bigger grate the ripping would have to be looser. A too-tight fit on a larger grate causes them to belly and split here and there. Don't ask.

    There's a blob of PL Premium in each lap, which should do the job. There's very little squeeze out to deal with.



  2. #4377
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    We are indebted to you Jim, your photos and explanations are marvelous!
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  3. #4378
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    We are indebted to you Jim, your photos and explanations are marvelous!

    This is interesting stuff to me, Peter, and being able to present the work adds another dimension to the enjoyment. I've spent a long time doing work much like this that very few people saw happen.

    Here are some assembled grates. Once the adhesive sets they can be trimmed and fitted to the frames.



  4. #4379
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post

    There's a blob of PL Premium in each lap, which should do the job. There's very little squeeze out to deal with.

    great idea to use PLPremium, I was going to use proset for mine but did not relish dealing with squeezeout

  5. #4380
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Skegemog View Post
    great idea to use PLPremium, I was going to use proset for mine but did not relish dealing with squeezeout

    Any squeezeout that does occur happens in the form of a neat bead, halfway down, in the corner. It's easily dealt with when set.



    The fitting of a grate to its frame starts with dry-clamping the frame together and placing it atop the grate. The grate is then positioned in the opening and secured. I use a sharp knife to score the position of the frame on the top of the grate. This score is the shoulder line for the tenons. In this picture the waste has been removed from the tops of the grate tenons. The frame is resting on the tops of the tenons-to-be. The lines are then squared onto the back of the grate and the opposite side of the tenons cut



  6. #4381
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Here's that forward triangle ready to glue up...



  7. #4382
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Humbling

  8. #4383
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    How do you cut your mortices Jim?

    Rick

  9. #4384
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    ^ Post 4382 - +1000


    Rick

  10. #4385
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Wish I was half as rough as you Jim, your wife's right - you are a show off, but thanks, it's a pleasure to see someone with as much skill and patience as you
    Last edited by andrewpatrol; 04-09-2017 at 08:12 PM.

  11. #4386
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Thank God he's a show off, how would we learn anything otherwise !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  12. #4387
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    I think the greatest skill on show from Jim is patience and careful, moderate use of very sharp tools. And excellent measuring! Knowing how the thing fits together is the key skill.

    Lovely stuff!

    Do you still have the Powermatic mortiser Jim?
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  13. #4388
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Gentlemen...please, enough already! I checked with my wife and she denies the "show-off" comment, "why would anyone say that?" was the actual response. In all truth, if I wasn't a bit of a show off you'd be looking at a plywood triangle with a coat of mat and resin and I'd have spent the last few days fishing.

    Duncan, the morticer is a Multico, not a Powermatic. It speeds things up considerable, but I could, and often have, gotten a similar result using a drill press and chisel.


    Here's the dry run. Note the clamping cauls that allow a good clamp on the triangular shape.



  14. #4389
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Why is the after border of that grate so much wider than the sides Jim? Twice as wide almost. Or should I wait for "all to be revealed"?
    If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.
    -Henry David Thoreau-

  15. #4390
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor View Post
    Why is the after border of that grate so much wider than the sides Jim? Twice as wide almost. Or should I wait for "all to be revealed"?

    These grates sit over the mast step and the mast will pass through them. The wide border is to allow for the eight-sided cutout. I don't particularly like the wide border and hope it will look better once it's cut out and all is in place. I tinkered with the idea of making a thin border that wound around the mast in pieces, but rejected the idea because it became too complicated and ran the risk of seeming "show-offy".

  16. #4391
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Ah. I see. Thanks Jim.
    If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.
    -Henry David Thoreau-

  17. #4392
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    These grates sit over the mast step and the mast will pass through them. The wide border is to allow for the eight-sided cutout. I don't particularly like the wide border and hope it will look better once it's cut out and all is in place. I tinkered with the idea of making a thin border that wound around the mast in pieces, but rejected the idea because it became too complicated and ran the risk of seeming "show-offy".
    Beautiful work as always Jim, I have to visit and see the progress sometime. Regards Tom

  18. #4393
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Tokamecotom View Post
    Beautiful work as always Jim, I have to visit and see the progress sometime. Regards Tom

    You're welcome any time, Tom, I'd be glad to see you.



    I'd like to do a photo essay on the marking and cutting of the grate tenons because the methods involved can be used, not only for the grates, but in many other situations where a close fit is needed.

    I'm going to start with the preliminary marking of the grid. The grate frame is fitted and clamped up dry, placed atop the grid and adjusted to get the position correct. A light pencil mark is made around the edge. Keep in mind that this is just a reference line.

    After the grid is removed from underneath the frame a half-inch is added to the just-marked line. This half inch is added all around and represents the ends of the tenons.



  19. #4394
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    That line, the ends of the tenons, can be seen here on two sides, the other two sides having been already trimmed. The line is black ink for visibility and to insure that no mistake is made. The tablesaw cut-off box works reasonable well here, just holding the piece down while the cut is made. Sneak up on this cut, adjusting the piece to get on the line...



  20. #4395
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Most of the waste can be removed using two cuts on the table saw, getting as close to the finish line as you dare and going almost to the finished depth. The big concern, not counting the anxiety over the fits themselves, is the problem of spray, chip out, the tendency of wood fibers to get broken off the piece when the cutter leave the piece and the fibers are unsupported.

    The blade in the saw is new for this job, a fresh blade being much less likely to tear or burn the wood...



  21. #4396
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    I use a sharp knife to mark the finish cuts, the scribed line being a fraction of the width of a sharp pencil line. Sometimes the scribed lines can be difficult to see, you'll need your glasses for sure, but if you can arrange the pieces so a light shines across the piece the scribes will be clearly visible. This is particularly useful when marking dovetails, set a droplight on the bench so it shines horizontally over the work.

    You can see that the tenons in the upper right hand corner have been cut already and the frame is aligned with their shoulders. It is possible to scribe all four sides at once, but what I'm doing here is scribing and cutting the bottom row first, the repositioning the frame on the grid for the scribing of one side. It comes out better that way, trust me. You get a little chance for adjustment as well.


  22. #4397
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    This is the final act. The top half of the tenons are finished up with a router sporting a top bearing bit.

    The depth is set to almost go down to the line. The problem is that the grids are somewhat less than flat. If you have a wide belt sander you could just send them through and flatten them as nice as you please. If not, knock off the high spots with a plane and make some allowances. The unevenness of the grid makes it difficult to set the depth accurately, so the idea is to get close and finish up with a rabbet plane.

    There's an oak board with a jointed edge clamped on top of the grid on which the router rides while the bearing follows the jointed edge. The edge of this board lines up precisely with the scribed lines.

    The two tenons on the right have already been cut. You can still see the saw marks from the initial trim on the tenons on the left. Remember what I said about spray earlier. Here's the problem...this bit, on leaving the cut, wants to tear off splinters and chunks of wood. To mitigate this problem a new router bit was used and the right hand edge of the shoulders was chiseled down to the line, leaving very little for the bit to grab.



  23. #4398
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Thanks Jim! Terrific instructions for hackers like me! Great photos and greatly appreciated!!

    Rick

  24. #4399
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    So good! Reading that, I almost feel I could do this too...
    My Goat Island Skiff Project Photos:
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/999065...7648295059621/

  25. #4400
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Nice clamping cauls!
    I love the smell of fresh cut plywood in the morning.

  26. #4401
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Beautiful work and great documentation, Mister Ledger sir.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  27. #4402
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Thanks for the kind comments, folks.


    I spoke with my mom this morning and she asked me when I was going to update the thread. Sorry, Ma.

    The weather turned especially clement this week. Along with the daffodils and Cherry blossoms the paint brushes made their first appearance, right on schedule. I might have mentioned that the forepeak needs to be painted before the shelf and bulkhead get installed. This is because of the restricted space that will be created where it will be difficult to see, reach and swing a brush. Which is just as well because I want to get as much painting out of the way before the planking closes the boat in.

    So, here I am, Ma, grates in just for show and two coats of thinned primer, sanded between coats, just like ya showed me. The grates need more sanding and their edges trimmed, but this it...



  28. #4403
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    Thanks for the kind comments, folks.


    I spoke with my mom this morning and she asked me when I was going to update the thread. Sorry, Ma.

    The weather turned especially clement this week. Along with the daffodils and Cherry blossoms the paint brushes made their first appearance, right on schedule. I might have mentioned that the forepeak needs to be painted before the shelf and bulkhead get installed. This is because of the restricted space that will be created where it will be difficult to see, reach and swing a brush. Which is just as well because I want to get as much painting out of the way before the planking closes the boat in.

    So, here I am, Ma, grates in just for show and two coats of thinned primer, sanded between coats, just like ya showed me. The grates need more sanding and their edges trimmed, but this it...


    You know you could've just drilled some holes in some plywood, right, Show Off?

    Honestly, I don't think I've EVER made anything as nice as your hidden forepeak grate. Lovely. Seriously. Being as careful and thoughtful in all aspects of my life is something I aspire to.

    I have a few sash brushes with shortened handles for tight spaces. I often paint by the ferrule, anyway in close work, so I just looped off the handles. They look like super fat sign or striping brushes with short bristles.

    Peace,
    Robert

  29. #4404
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Dunno whether you have access to these in the States?

    Can be useful for working around frames and in odd restricted corners.





    As the flat one is a Radiator brush, you probably do.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  30. #4405
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Disgraceful behaviour Jim!

    I'm binning my camera .....

    Amazing!

    Rick

  31. #4406
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Beautiful work Jim. Will you ever need to remove them when in the water? You're joints are so perfect it looks like they might swell tight and become permanent.

  32. #4407
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Very nice! Running grain match noted and chalked up to cabinetmaker OCD.

  33. #4408
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    You know you could've just drilled some holes in some plywood, right, Show Off?


    Peace,
    Robert

    Were that the case, Rob, I would have routed them to eliminate the chip-out.



    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post

    Honestly, I don't think I've EVER made anything as nice as your hidden forepeak grate. Lovely. Seriously. Being as careful and thoughtful in all aspects of my life is something I aspire to.

    Peace,
    Robert

    Thanks, Rob, I'm just warming up here for what's to come, making my mistakes in the closet before we get to the Main Event. Even if you know how to do this it still takes some refreshment to get to your best level and practice to stay there. There needs to be a certain level of tune to your tools and equipment as well as a mental attitude that's not always immediately accessible. If I was some cat from Japan I'm sure there would be a word for that, probably a hyphenated one, too, but for an ex-clammer like me it's just "getting into the zone".


    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post

    I have a few sash brushes with shortened handles for tight spaces. I often paint by the ferrule, anyway in close work, so I just looped off the handles. They look like super fat sign or striping brushes with short bristles.

    Peace,
    Robert
    I have a few of those, too, but haven't had to break them out yet. It's still early in the season, though.


    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Dunno whether you have access to these in the States?

    Can be useful for working around frames and in odd restricted corners.

    As the flat one is a Radiator brush, you probably do.


    We have access to everything in the "States", Nick, so long as we stay healthy. One of the benefits of Freedom is a bewildering variety of paint brushes available at low cost no further away than the nearest 7-11. Although, I did manage to get this far using only a 2 1/2" angled sash brush. I'm going to have a look for the around-the-corner brush, now that you've brought it to my attention, and a mirror-on-a-stick to hold in the other hand.


    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Disgraceful behaviour Jim!

    I'm binning my camera .....

    Amazing!

    Rick

    T'wern't nothin', Rick, but thanks the same.


    Quote Originally Posted by J.Madison View Post
    Beautiful work Jim. Will you ever need to remove them when in the water? You're joints are so perfect it looks like they might swell tight and become permanent.
    Fear not, Mr. Madison, the hatches have yet to be trimmed and will provide an easy lift with no binding. The two aft hatches will likely be used more than the forward one. The space beneath is an excellent storage area for the likes of spare lines, but I don't anticipate going in there too often.


    Quote Originally Posted by Skegemog View Post
    Very nice! Running grain match noted and chalked up to cabinetmaker OCD.

    Running grain match, Skeg? Really? Got lucky there, eh?


    Jim
    Last edited by Jim Ledger; 04-17-2017 at 10:13 AM.

  34. #4409
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Here's a couple of shots of the recent work and subsequent paint. The color is Interlux Hatteras white, full gloss. I've got a couple of thin coats of Interlux Pre-Coat primer as a base, two coats of finish paint shown here and one more coat of finish to come.

    And that will be the last time I'll ever paint up here.






  35. #4410
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat






    WOW! Incredible. Just amazing.

    Carry on, sir!
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

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