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Thread: Peapod question - go easy on me!

  1. #1
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    Default Peapod question - go easy on me!

    Hello everyone. I'm new to wooden boat building, so excuse the basic question to start with, but I can't find an answer anywhere.

    I'm thinking of buying a Fyne boat kit for the Lighthouse Tender Maine Peapod.

    I understand that with traditional, more heavily built, clinker boats you keep them wet, allowing the wood to swell, preventing excessive ingress of water. But I want to dry sail this boat (in and out of Chichester Harbour), so before I even buy the kit, I'd like to understand the practicalities of ownership.

    Q. With such a light build, how would a build like this be made watertight? Is it by using generous epoxy coatings?

    Thanks.


    PS. I've sailed, canoe'd and windsurfed (and have done glass and gelcoat repairs) all my life, but this is the first time I'll have been anywhere near a wooden boat.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Peapod question - go easy on me!

    Welcome to the Forum!
    I looked at the website and the peapod you want to build is based on a traditionally built peapod but the kit you want is in fact a modern adaptation built with the stitch and glue method. Since stitch and glue is all marine plywood held together with epoxy, it will remain watertight on the trailer. There is no swelling up of such a boat.
    I've built 18 boats over the years using every method other then the traditional carvel planking method simply because I dry sail all my boats.
    Good luck with the build!
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Peapod question - go easy on me!

    It's plywood stitch and glue, most suitable for dry sailing. If you get swelling, you've a problem.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Peapod question - go easy on me!

    Hi, welcome to the forum.
    First off keeping a boat at stable humidity is less important for a plywood kit built boat, and far less important for dry sailed boats that do not spend much time in the water.
    Product Description

    The Lighthouse Tender is an advanced stitch-and-glue boat kit based on the Maine Peapods: small, double-ended rowing and sailing boats traditionally used for lobster fishing and general utility such as tending lighthouses. More recently, the peapod type found a new life as a pleasure boat.
    The stitch and glue system guarantees watertightness unless you really screw up. Just follow the instructions.
    Once you have built it maintain it correctly, painting and varnishing as needful and do not drop it onto anything hard or pointy.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Peapod question - go easy on me!

    It's a stitch & glue boat. The epoxy joined panels will ensure it's watertight.
    You should buy the building manual if you have not done so already and study it.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Peapod question - go easy on me!

    Thanks everyone, for such quick replies.

    I knew it was a basic question, but I'm reassured to learn that watertightness is inherent in the joints of a ply / stitch-and-glue build.

    One additional question, more out of curiosity than anything. I'm assuming the ply itself does still need treatment, with epoxy-based paint or varnish, in order to protect against absorption? Not that I'd leave it untreated, or unfinished... more of a 'what if' question, just to know how inherently waterproof the ply would be.


    PS. I've done a lot of house refurbs and self-build, and I'm the sort of 'over-thinker' that will use a three inch screw, when a one inch nail will do! ;-)
    Last edited by Woody Allenkey; 01-27-2021 at 09:21 AM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Peapod question - go easy on me!

    Yes, she will need painted or varnished. Any good quality marine paint will do. I favour Teamac paints. https://www.teamac.co.uk/ International Clear Universal Primer is also good.

    If, as seems unlikely in Chichester Harbour you might be running her up shingle beaches, some would recommend setting glass cloth or Dynel in epoxy on her bottom to protect against abrasion.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Peapod question - go easy on me!

    Thank you. I'll be buying the kit in April/May... I have an extension and garages to build in the meantime!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Peapod question - go easy on me!

    PS. I've done a lot of house refurbs and self-build, and I'm the sort of 'over-thinker' that will use a three inch screw, when a one inch nail will do! ;-)
    I get that. I think many of us do.

    I am going to say leave that thinking aside during your build. The designer already figured out how stout and strong the boat needs to be. An over-built boat is just heavier, harder to move around on land and possibly more expensive to build.

    Good luck and welcome!

    Kevin.
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Peapod question - go easy on me!

    The Frye web page has a few resources that may help with some of your questions, “Study manual

    This is intended for pre-build study or to help with the decision to purchase. Reading this manual will help you decide whether or not you can build the boat. It is the manual that accompanies the kits. It describes all of the techniques that will be used during the building and also a step by step guide to construction. Scale drawings are used throughout as well as photographs of critical jobs.
    If, later, you decide to purchase the kit the cost of this printed manual will be deducted from the kit price.
    This does not contain the plans of the panels with the cutting instructions so it is not possible to build the boat from scratch using only this.
    PDF study manual

    The construction manual for the boat is also available as a PDF download. After credit card authorisation a download link will be sent to the email address put on the order form.”

    There are also a number of good books available on stitch and glue boat building and plywood clinker boat building. One that I found useful was Plywood Boatbuilding Manual by Iain Oughtred. There are are other books that may suit your needs and the investment should help you avoid some mistakes.

    As for working with epoxy you may find this pdf manual useful: https://www.westsystem.com/wp-conten...ds/British.pdf
    Steamboat

    I get by with the judicious use of serendipity.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Peapod question - go easy on me!

    Do some reading about epoxy, much of which is available on the internet.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Peapod question - go easy on me!

    Don't forget the PPE. Appropriate gloves and lots of cheap vinegar for cleaning your tools and any 'poxy that gets on your skin.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Peapod question - go easy on me!

    There is a ton of really good information available out there and some pre-reading could be both useful and fun. CLC has some good info and a search online for build threads in the forum here will bring up tons more. Enjoy!
    https://www.clcboats.com/shoptips/
    https://www.clcboats.com/forum/clcforum/

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Peapod question - go easy on me!

    Thanks again. I've used epoxy quite a bit, albeit 'back in the day', on windsurf boards and canoes. I'll follow up all the recommendations and links.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Peapod question - go easy on me!

    Ah Woody, epoxy experience is good.

    Looking at the web page, I'd barely call it a peapod. The original 'pods were truely semetrical, lots of deadrise, and plenty of molded depth, all of which gave them enormous carrying capacity for the lobsters. An older boatbuilder mentor of mine built an exact replica of a lobstering pod and hated it as she was a crank to row. Having read a lot, I knew that the lobstermen ballasted their boats with rocks on setting out, dumping rocks as they harvested bugs. So I borrowed the boat, put about 50# of beach sand in each of 10 cloth sacks I'd run up, and set out with the boat properly trimed. She rowed, as they say it downeast, finastkind.

    Yachterized 'pods have less molded depth and a bit less deadrise at the garboards and up. This makes they suitable for going light - one or two people, a picnic basket, and a dog. People like Joel White pulled the stern stem a bit closer to vertical and, while still curved, less arced than the bow stem. This makes it easier to fit a rudder and the lines make for a better sailing boat. Some modern 'pods go for the straight stern and raking waterlines to make for a better sail boat. But by that point is more like "inspired by peapod"

    The next evolution gets us to your boat. The origional 'pods and many yachterized 'pods were meant to be carvel planked with dimensional lumber and fairly heavy. Some clinker examples were also made. But the 'pod shape does not lend itself to efficient use of plywood. I could see from the web page that your boat is very highly evolved so that the engineering of kit parts would be an efficient use of wood. Brilliant looking boat.

    Evolved as your boat is, she's still a traditional boat and will not sail like a Moth. When going to weather you may well find she sails better five or a bit more points off the wind (close to 60 degrees) rather than the nominal standard of four points (45 degrees) off the wind for older modern rig boats or the three points or tighter (getting on to 30 degrees) off the wind. Traditional rigs are really set up to sail down or across wind and rowed up.

    Traditional boats also have a very firm sense of "hull speed" which L Francis Herreshoff called a myth. It's not exactly a fixed number but a starting standard for a displacement hull is (1.3)(square root WLft) = Hull speed Knots. That 1.3 constant is not firm. A really slim boat might be more like 1.5 and really fat tubs might bee 1.2. This is about where the distance between bow and stern waves are separated enough that the boat is essentially trying to climb out of a hole in the water. With more power you can go faster but you fall into diminishing returns.

    An example: My 18' gunning dory had a theoretical hull speed of about 4.5 knots - 18' LOW, 12' LWL. But approaching hull speed became real work. I could row all day at about 3 knots - 9 hours to row 27 miles from Hyannis to Nantucket. I could hold 3.5 knots for an hour. I could almost kiss 4 knots in a very short sprint. But even with another strong row so we had 4 8" oars in the water, we could not quite break 4 knots. But she has gone faster. One clear day howler (SW Near Gale, F 7, wind 28-33 knots) a friend flying over got good pix of my schooner charging along towing Leeward off the wind. Because waves are additive we could determine bow and sternwave separation by looking at where the over-taking seas broke. Dory bow and stern waves were about 79 feet apart! That confirmed my log notes of that day that we were doing a sustained 11 knots. So hull speed was a broken myth that day but there's no way we could have mounted that much power on the dory.

    Anyway, you're in the way of having a great boat for sailing and rowing in a beautiful area.

    G'luck

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Peapod question - go easy on me!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    There is a ton of really good information available out there and some pre-reading could be both useful and fun. CLC has some good info and a search online for build threads in the forum here will bring up tons more. Enjoy!
    https://www.clcboats.com/shoptips/
    https://www.clcboats.com/forum/clcforum/
    I strongly recommend that you get the CLC building manual for the boat. Itíll give both a more detailed knowledge of the boatís construction and a better sense of its design and suitability for your use.

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