Lofting the Brewer catboat

[Jim Ledger]

Thanks, Andy. In that case, I've got a few minutes while I eat my toast. How about a little sidebar on making bolts to break the monotony?


The bolts are cut from lengths of silicon bronze rod, threaded both ends, with nuts and washers on both ends. One advantage here is being able to make bolts the exact length required with just enough thread. Long bolts, not a problem. To measure for the length of a bolt, simply use a dowel or wire less than the diameter of the hole, stick it down the hole, mark it, and measure the length, being sure to add an allowance for the nuts and washers.

Here is a piece of half inch rod in the lathe. The rod gets faced up and a little chamfer put on the end.


If you have much bolting to do, it's worth watching Craigslist for one of these type of threaders, They list for seven hundred of so, but this set cost seventy-five and has dies that thread from a quarter to three quarters of an inch rod. The die goes on straight and bites right in as soon as you give it a turn. It works much like a pipe threader, but not so much work.

[donald branscom]

Beautiful workmanship on those engine beds Jim.
Thanks for the pics.

I for one would like to see a photo of your welding machine.
When you have the time. I can see that it is a Miller.Maybe just a Miller cooler?

[Jim Ledger]

Very nice work, CPES is great stuff! Keep up the good work and the photo's Jim, again nicely done!

Thanks, Paul, always great to hear from your fine self. The CPES has been doing an exceptional job keeping the keel, stem and centerboard trunk bedlogs from shrinking, as there are no gaps at all between these pieces.

Here' as promised, is the result of literally weeks of cutting and threading...a complete set of bolts with which to fasten the engine beds to their respective floor timbers, through fastenings all.

Jim,

Just got caught up on the thread - looks awesome. That engine bed assembly is going to give some apprentice - 100 years from now - a real education. That looks absolutely bomb proof and super cool, as the kids say.

I am jealous, as all the fun I get for next few months = a kitchen reno

Watcha gonna bed it with?

Alex

This is indeed a special day. Just how often do you see, back-to-back two of the Northwests finest shining examples of cutting edge woodworkery, Girouard and Low. I am honored, Sirs, and should David G have seen fit to drizzle a timely drop of wisdom between, I think my monitor might well have proved unequal to the task and melted into a buzzing puddle.


Hold off on the jealousy though, Alex. I myself have to make a kitchen for the undeserving in the coming months as well, which, I suspect, will cut heavily into my boatbuilding schedule.

One of the advantages of building with highly rot-resistant woods is being able to dispense with bedding of any kind in many situations. This is one of those, and there won't be any bedding at all under the beds.

As for that poor yet-unborn apprentice wannabee, try and make one like that, kid.



The beds and engine pan, all bolted in, and as one old gentleman of my acquaintance used to say "This looks like a good stopping place."

[Jim Ledger]

Beautiful workmanship on those engine beds Jim.
Thanks for the pics.

I for one would like to see a photo of your welding machine.
When you have the time. I can see that it is a Miller.Maybe just a Miller cooler?

Thanks you, Donald. Here's the welder, a 250 amp Miller Synchrowave and cooler, a sad reminder in the corner of the garage of poor choices made and a misspent youth.

[kc8pql]

I myself have to make a kitchen for the undeserving in the coming months as well...

[BBSebens]

As for that poor yet-unborn apprentice wannabee, try and make one like that, kid.

And the humble Mr. Ledger allows himself a pat on the back.. And well deserved it is. Amazing what craftsmanship can be put into such a simple thing as engine beds and a drip pan.


I hope I can justify using that line sometime in my life.

[donald branscom]

Thanks, Paul, always great to hear from your fine self. The CPES has been doing an exceptional job keeping the keel, stem and centerboard trunk bedlogs from shrinking, as there are no gaps at all between these pieces.

Here' as promised, is the result of literally weeks of cutting and threading...a complete set of bolts with which to fasten the engine beds to their respective floor timbers, through fastenings all.






This is indeed a special day. Just how often do you see, back-to-back two of the Northwests finest shining examples of cutting edge woodworkery, Girouard and Low. I am honored, Sirs, and should David G have seen fit to drizzle a timely drop of wisdom between, I think my monitor might well have proved unequal to the task and melted into a buzzing puddle.


Hold off on the jealousy though, Alex. I myself have to make a kitchen for the undeserving in the coming months as well, which, I suspect, will cut heavily into my boatbuilding schedule.

One of the advantages of building with highly rot-resistant woods is being able to dispense with bedding of any kind in many situations. This is one of those, and there won't be any bedding at all under the beds.

As for that poor yet-unborn apprentice wannabee, try and make one like that, kid.



The beds and engine pan, all bolted in, and as one old gentleman of my acquaintance used to say "This looks like a good stopping place."

That welding machine is the KING of all welding machines. The best there is!!!
Misspent youth? I do not think so.

[Paul Pless]

Ya got that 64,000 pounds of locust unloaded yet?

[Eric D]

Jim,

that is pure art right there.....I agree with AGreever, I too will never tire of this thread. Excellent work!!

Sorry that kitchen has to interfer,

isn't it a shame how life gets in the way of living!?!?

[Jim Ledger]

Jim,

that is pure art right there.....I agree with AGreever, I too will never tire of this thread. Excellent work!!

Sorry that kitchen has to interfer,

isn't it a shame how life gets in the way of living!?!?

It's all one, Eric. Get up, build something, go to bed.

Here's a nice little load of Locust wood from the Catskills. Seven hundred and fifty board feet, weighing probably more than three thousand pounds. Frame laminations, deck beams, cockpit deck framing. It's a good thing that driving on the New York State Thruway is like driving on a billiard table. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for the Long Island Expressway. Fifty five all the way home, like driving a brick.

[kc8pql]

It's all one. Get up, build something, go to bed.

That would make a good signature line...or epitaph.

[Gold Rock]

Hey Jim, you seem to have a functional engine lathe there. Why didn't you cut the threads on it instead of twisting them out with a hand die? Or am I missing something?

[Jim Ledger]

Ya got that 64,000 pounds of locust unloaded yet?

Unloaded and graded into three rough piles, garden grade, construction, and aircraft grade. There is only one board in the last pile...and I have to trim two feet off each end.


Tomorrow I have to trim the ends and paint them with Anchorseal, then sticker and stack.

[Jim Ledger]

That would make a good signature line...or epitaph.

You have to know how to keep yourself busy.

Today it's a desk.

[Jim Ledger]

Hey Jim, you seem to have a functional engine lathe there. Why didn't you cut the threads on it instead of twisting them out with a hand die? Or am I missing something?

Chuck, the lathe is a recent addition. It's a nicely kept South Bend Heavy Ten, and came with a pile of accessories. So far I've only done the simplest things with it, facing off and sizing bronze rod, that sort of thing. I'd like to try threading, but with only a half dozen bolts to make and wanting to get on with the job it's quicker to do what I already know. Threading sounds intimidating to learn on my own. It would be OK if the threads could be cut in one pass, but this business of lining up the cutter for a second pass seems like it could go wrong. It would probably be easier to watch it being done than to try and learn it out of a book. But I intend giving it a try.

[Paul Pless]

Today it's a desk.

What kinda desk you building?

My desk is about to be piled with tax preparation documents. . .

[Gold Rock]

Chuck, the lathe is a recent addition. It's a nicely kept South Bend Heavy Ten, and came with a pile of accessories. So far I've only done the simplest things with it, facing off and sizing bronze rod, that sort of thing. I'd like to try threading, but with only a half dozen bolts to make and wanting to get on with the job it's quicker to do what I already know. Threading sounds intimidating to learn on my own. It would be OK if the threads could be cut in one pass, but this business of lining up the cutter for a second pass seems like it could go wrong. It would probably be easier to watch it being done than to try and learn it out of a book. But I intend giving it a try.

Ah, I do understand. Well when you get around to it you'll be immensly pleased.

[P.L.Lenihan]

Just bumping for a boot up mine own arse to get me pumped on woodbutchery. I need a fix! How goes things in the bowshed Mr.Ledger or have you laid out a strategic plan for later, when things warm up a bit?




Cheers!


Tenner

[chuckt]

I've caught your thread in bits and pieces and am now going through the whole thing from the beginning and enjoying it immensely Jim. Just got to the end. Whew!

I'm officially joining your cheerleaders (but I ain't wearing the little skirt).

I'm going to be confronting some of these tasks this year and am getting a lot out of your detail. I really dig that stem. It inspires me to replace my forefoot/gripe/stem timber with a resorcinol lamination. Fantastic.

Did you bed all those keys and similar faying surfaces with anything other than red lead? Maybe not. Maybe no matter? I see where you used 5200. Was anything else used?

Do you recall the mositure level of the timbers when you started on them? I see they are drying out as the thread goes on. I saw a humidifier mentioned. Is it not up to keeping the moisture levels up?

[Mike DeHart]

Finally something I can comment on... Don't worry about learning to lathe cut threads. The tool makers I learned from always used commercial taps and dies whenever they could. They would lathe cut threads only when there was no easier way or when very precise fits were needed, as in making thread pitch go/no-go gauges. I have successfully turned threads twice, and wrecked them at least twice as many times. I use dies. The heavy 10 is a great machine. You will really enjoy it as you learn its tricks. Go to the Practical Machinist website boards, they have a South Bend Lathe specific board with some very good stuff.

And thanks for this thread from another professional lurker. I have read every page and learned very much. (It took 45 pages for me to know enough to contribute. :-) ) Threads like this are why I come here.

[Jim Ledger]

Thanks for the replies and my answers will be forthcoming.

Here is the trial fit of the engine...shoehorning is the technical term. The floor timber in front of the flywheel needs to have a quarter inch deep semicircular recess cut in. This will allow the engine to slide forward an eighth of an inch while still leaving some clearance in front of the flywheel.

[WX]

That is a close fit. Nice to see that your passion for fine tolerances is not just confined to joinery.

[Larks]

Engine envy alert!!! Have you posted the engine before Jim? I don't recall seeing it and reckon it's something I'd remember.

[Jim Ledger]

Just bumping for a boot up mine own arse to get me pumped on woodbutchery. I need a fix! How goes things in the bowshed Mr.Ledger or have you laid out a strategic plan for later, when things warm up a bit?




Cheers!


Tenner

Hi, Peter. I did have a plan, a detailed plan laid out, so professional a plan that I mistook it for an architects work and used it to light my woodstove. Now I'm just feeling my way along taking it one day at a time.

I expect the ice will be thawing by you sometime in the next six weeks or so, the weather being kind. We're all looking forward to the pictures of the new curtains and placemats.

I've caught your thread in bits and pieces and am now going through the whole thing from the beginning and enjoying it immensely Jim. Just got to the end. Whew!

I'm officially joining your cheerleaders (but I ain't wearing the little skirt).

I'm going to be confronting some of these tasks this year and am getting a lot out of your detail. I really dig that stem. It inspires me to replace my forefoot/gripe/stem timber with a resorcinol lamination. Fantastic.

Did you bed all those keys and similar faying surfaces with anything other than red lead? Maybe not. Maybe no matter? I see where you used 5200. Was anything else used?

Do you recall the mositure level of the timbers when you started on them? I see they are drying out as the thread goes on. I saw a humidifier mentioned. Is it not up to keeping the moisture levels up?

The whole thread!!! I'm going to assume you skimmed a bit, Chuck, but thanks, I'll take that as a compliment.

I used 5200 between the keel and stem and between the keel and centerboard logs. The deadwood was just red lead. The timbers were fitted pretty close and i expect them to take up just fine.

The six inch thick timbers had a variable moisture content from the outside to the center. There is some shrinkage in the deadwood, but the centerboard trunk and stem joints are tight after a year. The timber seems to have reached equilibrium, which is not surprising considering the time since it was sawn.

Finally something I can comment on... Don't worry about learning to lathe cut threads. The tool makers I learned from always used commercial taps and dies whenever they could. They would lathe cut threads only when there was no easier way or when very precise fits were needed, as in making thread pitch go/no-go gauges. I have successfully turned threads twice, and wrecked them at least twice as many times. I use dies. The heavy 10 is a great machine. You will really enjoy it as you learn its tricks. Go to the Practical Machinist website boards, they have a South Bend Lathe specific board with some very good stuff.

And thanks for this thread from another professional lurker. I have read every page and learned very much. (It took 45 pages for me to know enough to contribute. :-) ) Threads like this are why I come here.

Thanks for the tip, Mike, I'll have a look at the site. The lathe can be somewhat intimidating without someone to show you the proper usage. I find Youtube a great help nowadays. You know, your comments are always welcome, so don't wait another forty pages.

Here's the Sabb variable pitch propeller, installed for the first time. The propeller shaft moves fore and aft to change the pitch of the blades from forward to reverse. The blades are shown here in the reverse position. In forward most of the stainless shaft moves back into the hub.



This is the remedy for the too-tight fit of the engine, a semi-circular notch cut into the floor timber to allow the engine to shift forward. This was needed to allow the full throw of the propeller shaft without the coupling hitting the stuffing box.

[Mrleft8]

Sounds like a great place for the car keys to fall into on a Sunday evening...

[Brian Palmer]

Ok, how did you cut such a nice even arc with all that other stuff in the way? Were there any power tools involved or just very sharp hand tools?

Admiringly,

Brian

[jsjpd1]

Ok, how did you cut such a nice even arc with all that other stuff in the way? Were there any power tools involved or just very sharp hand tools?

Admiringly,

Brian

Exactly my question, too.

Thanks for sharing with us Jim, I'm absolutely amazed at how precise and clean your work is.

Jim

[Sailor]

I was picturing some sort of router compass setup then decided that's too involved. He probably whacked it out with a broad axe.

[andrewpatrol]

I reckon he started up the engine and slid it forward and took out the packers, hence the white paint job

[Jim Ledger]

Ok, how did you cut such a nice even arc with all that other stuff in the way? Were there any power tools involved or just very sharp hand tools?

Admiringly,

Brian

As there was no way to get a 'copter in close it had to be done by hand. The guy I borrowed the broadaxe from finally remembered who he had lent it to, came around and said the owner was real pissed and wanted it back, leaving me with an inch and a quarter Greenlee chisel and a half used tube of lipstick. So I made that work. Some careful chopping and paring, being careful to leave what should be left and remove the rest. What might be interesting to some is that the face of the cutout is square to the slanting top of the engine beds. This was done to provide an even gap at the front of the flywheel while removing a minimum amount of wood.

[Sailor]

How about a wide shot of the whole thing Mr. Ledger? We've been in tight seeing all the really cool details, I think it's time for a wide angle shot.

[Peerie Maa]

As there was no way to get a 'copter in close it had to be done by hand. The guy I borrowed the broadaxe from finally remembered who he had lent it to, came around and said the owner was real pissed and wanted it back, leaving me with an inch and a quarter Greenlee chisel and a half used tube of lipstick. So I made that work. Some careful chopping and paring, being careful to leave what should be left and remove the rest. What might be interesting to some is that the face of the cutout is square to the slanting top of the engine beds. This was done to provide an even gap at the front of the flywheel while removing a minimum amount of wood.

I'd have glued some sand paper to the flywheel and fired her up. But then I'm just lazy.

[Jim Ledger]

That is a close fit. Nice to see that your passion for fine tolerances is not just confined to joinery.

I'd have preferred a few spare inches, but that's all the room there was.

Engine envy alert!!! Have you posted the engine before Jim? I don't recall seeing it and reckon it's something I'd remember.

A few pictures is all. It's an unused Sabb G-10, never been installed in a boat. The paint job is my own.

How about a wide shot of the whole thing Mr. Ledger? We've been in tight seeing all the really cool details, I think it's time for a wide angle shot.

This is as wide a shot as I have on hand. I'll get something more comprehensive in a few days....

[Paul Girouard]

Nice work Jim. Glad you're back posting.

[Rich Jones]

Is it just the light or did you paint the end of the shaftlog bright yellow?? Nice paint job on the engine. Don't care for Saab Blue?

[Larks]

Nice work Jim. Glad you're back posting.

Seconded!!! Very glad indeed that you're back posting.

[BBSebens]

This is as wide a shot as I have on hand. I'll get something more comprehensive in a few days....

I like this shot just fine... I think it belongs in a calendar!

[MiddleAgesMan]

Yep. It's perfectly lovely--and wide.

[Mrleft8]

Wow....
I'm impressed..... Let me rephrase that.... I'm even more impressed than usual!
That's looking really good, Jim!
And I gotta say... You could probably fund part of the project by selling Calendars.... No joke.

[ccolton]

Wow....
I'm impressed..... Let me rephrase that.... I'm even more impressed than usual!
That's looking really good, Jim!
And I gotta say... You could probably fund part of the project by selling Calendars.... No joke.

+1

Fantastic job!

[chuckt]

Yay--new posts. Thanks Jim. Lovely work as usual.

[Jim Ledger]

Thanks all.

Here's a picture of a Chappaquiddick 25 made in fiberglass. I don't think that there are more than a half dozen. They were made in Taiwan in the '70's without the designers authorization. I'm posting this to give an idea of the appearance of the completed boat. One difference between the glass and wood version is that the wood boat has a sheerstrake that is thicker than the planks below. A bead will be worked into the lower edge of the strake to accentuate the line.

[Larks]

That is a particularly pleasant sheer Jim, not a bad colour either for a dark hulled boat. Nice to see a pic of the finished hull. Is that hatch slightly offset to starboard?

[Breakaway]

She's a beauty.

Kevin

[JoshuaIII]

Nice work, can we say that the boat was build around the engine

[Figment]

The light on the dark paint highlights the full-cheeks hullform for sure.

"Dizzy Gillespie" isn't a good name for a catboat, though.

[Duncan Gibbs]

Nice work Jim. Glad you're back posting.

+2

[Jim Ledger]

That's enough wide angle viewing. Now lets get back to some of the nitty-gritty details where it all happens. Pick a little detail and get working on it. Too much thinking about the big picture can put a real damper on the enthusiasm.

As nice as the engine looks sitting in place it needs some bolting down if it's to perform properly. After shimming it for height and tapping it this way and that in order to get the shaft coupling to line up properly, the bolt locations can be marked on the engine beds. In order to drill the holes square the engine is lifted up and pushed aside. Here a block of wood is being used as a guide to drill the holes for the bolts through the engine beds.

[Duncan Gibbs]

Given that you've nought but poly sheeting wrap and thin metal tubes above the build I'm intrigued as to what that hook and chain holding the engine up is attached to at the other end. Is the floor strong enough for an engine crane?

[Sailor]

He's holding it up with one hand while he operates the camera apparatus with the other!