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Thread: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

  1. #1
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    Default Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    Yep the Luftwaffe fattie's 90 foot cruiser is wasting away in the Red Sea Egypt after a run-in with Colonel Gaddafi back in '87. This boat has an amazing history. Montgomery claimed her as a war prize after WWII and presented her to the British Royal Family who renamed her "Prince Albert" and then "Prince Charles" and cavorted around in her for 15 years - with most of the original German crew. She was handed back to the Goering family and was sold - ending up with the guy who claimed to have found Hitler's diary. Then went on to further adventures until ending up in a pretty sorry state. Heaps of photos and info here -

    http://www.welcometowallyworld.com/f...ngs-yacht.html

    I'm interested in forming a consortium to buy the vessel.

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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    She must have one heck of a beam!

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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    Wow - pretty darn cool.

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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by Noah View Post
    Wow - pretty darn cool.
    It actually is.. But wow..
    Noah, you ain't planning on going anywhere with this are ya.. I mean, not sure what you would do with it on the lake.. up there...

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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    I don't believe a word of it.

    There are any number of old boats around with this sort of "provenance" cooked up by some broker or optimistic seller.

    I myself have seen at least two such - it seems almost any boat built in Germany in the 1930's gets this label attached to it sooner or later.

    And this provenance comes from... the man who forged Hitler's diaries?

    The suggestion that British Royal Family once owned this boat is absurd.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    I believe its Winston Churchills boat myself.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    I agree with ACB until further documentation proves otherwise. And frankly, I'd find her more attractive without the bizarre connection and history. A boat of this scope will surely have been owned by "somebody." Better a somebody I approve of! Goering's stuff would be tainted in my view. His bed is no place I'd want to sleep.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    I don't know... Compare the superstructure details in these two views:





    Could be the same vessel...

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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    hey ART! LTNS :-)
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    I'm just amazed she is still as straight as she is - no hog and the rub rails appear board straight.

    I have a thing for classic cruisers like that, but I can't imagine the Varnish work required.

    Is this the same boat?

    Last edited by Noah; 04-29-2008 at 10:57 AM.

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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    Very similar indeed. About the only differences I'd swear to are the port light counts. One has five, the other six. That's not a deal killer of course; easy enough to add one in sixty years. SO, maybe.....
    I still don't know that being Goering's boat increases her value, or makes her a place I'd want to sleep.

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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by Noah View Post
    I'm just amazed she is still as straight as she is - no hog and the rub rails appear board straight.

    Built in Germany?
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    Is our boy Hermann rolling up a doob?

    Noticing the Italian officer...an instructor in diplomatic history in a course I took long ago... a bit of a wag, suggested that surrender in North Africa may have been a part of the Italians' strategy. They surrendered in such numbers that they clogged up the advance of the Brits.


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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post
    I still don't know that being Goering's boat increases her value, or makes her a place I'd want to sleep.
    a might superstitous are we Lew
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post
    I still don't know that being Goering's boat increases her value, or makes her a place I'd want to sleep.
    In the 70s Goering's sailboat was in Seattle. A friend worked on interior refinishing. The story was that the Dutch builders kept adding more intricate details 'til Hermann was sent to his reward. He never used it.

    By the way....saw a documentary on the Nuremburg trials. Goering was able to stroll about the courtroom. Probably the source of the substance that kept him from his just reward. Always wondered about that.

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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by TimH View Post
    a might superstitous are we Lew
    Not really...I'd say. It would be a very creepy place to be.

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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    its just a boat.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    I remember the "Grötte Beer", Görings sailboat from my youth in So. Cal. It looked like a Dutch canal boat with a big leeboard. I last saw her in Victoria, BC at a classic boat festival in the early '80s. She was still very well maintained.
    Schooner captains love to get blown offshore!

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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by SchoonerRat View Post
    I remember the "Grötte Beer", Görings sailboat from my youth in So. Cal. It looked like a Dutch canal boat with a big leeboard. I last saw her in Victoria, BC at a classic boat festival in the early '80s. She was still very well maintained.
    I think the boat is on the east coast now.

    If I recall correctly, my friend helped take her south down the west coast. In coastal waters she progressed by two steps forward and one back.

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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by TimH View Post
    its just a boat.
    Which was owned and used by some of the most evil people of the last couple centuries.

    If you had the opportunity, would you live in the "Eagle's Nest." Nice view. I wouldn't. Call me superstitious, I guess.

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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    As I understand it Fatso got the poison from an American GI guard he befriended. The GI ought to have taken fatso's place on the gallows for that trick.
    I wouldn't call it superstitious. I wouldn't care to be connected in any way with the Nazis, their ilk, or their works.

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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by pcford View Post
    I think the boat is on the east coast now.

    If I recall correctly, my friend helped take her south down the west coast. In coastal waters she progressed by two steps forward and one back.
    Grötte Beer never struck me as much of a sailboat, extremely beamy, leeboard, not much of a rig. Two steps forward and three back would not have surprised me. It was, however, a classic beauty. When boarding her in Victoria, this "Nice Jewish Boy" felt a bit uncomfortable with the Nazi memorabilia aboard. She seemed to be waiting for Hermann's return.
    Schooner captains love to get blown offshore!

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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Robb View Post
    As I understand it Fatso got the poison from an American GI guard he befriended. The GI ought to have taken fatso's place on the gallows for that trick.
    I wouldn't call it superstitious. I wouldn't care to be connected in any way with the Nazis, their ilk, or their works.
    Interesting...google search comes up with:

    http://boards.historychannel.com/thr...adID=510000796

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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    My feelings too Tom. The ownership is tainted. Sleeping "in his bed" was a euphemism on my part.



    Here's a "local thread" on the other (Groote Beer) boat.

    http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/show...ghlight=groote
    Last edited by Lew Barrett; 04-29-2008 at 06:13 PM.

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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    @ Andrew Craig-Bennett and other doubting Thomases.

    The provenance and history of this boat is very well documented. In fact the original LOG of this vessel is for sale online at AU$4000. It's a very famous and well-known vessel. The photo above is the same boat. You'll notice there are 6 portholes showing on the port side and 5 to starboard. She's 71 years old so you'd expect some modifications with the half-a-dozen owners since Goering. She WAS a Royal Yacht after the war - renamed "Royal Albert" and then "Prince Charles" - again well-documented.
    The provenance doesn't come from Heidemann - the Hitler Diaries Stern reporter - he just happens to have owned her briefly - bought the vessel from Goering's daughter after it was handed back from the Royal Family who had her for 15 years.
    "The suggestion that British Royal Family once owned this boat is absurd." Well...what can I say? Perhaps you'd like to ring Prince Charles for confirmation? ;-)

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    Like most other British yachtsmen of my age, I think I have a pretty clear idea of what yachts have been owned by the British Royal Family since WW2.

    Starting small:

    Coweslip - Flying Fifteen

    Bluebottle
    - Dragon

    Bloodhound
    - big offshore racer, designed and built by Nicholson

    Britannia - big steam yacht, built on the lines of a North Sea ferry, secondary use as hospital ship.

    If you notice a bit of a pattern here, it is that Prince Philip likes sailing.

    No suggestion of ever owning a powerboat - what would be the point?

    Over to you to come up with some real evidence.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    I have a hard time imagining the royal family being so tasteless as to firstly name a vessel "Prince Albert" and then rename her "Prince Charles." I can't even see any of them being guests on such a boat.

    I suppose it's not impossible for the yacht to have been held by British forces though I'm most unclear why they would later return her to Goering's family.

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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    Well yes she's obviously not a sailing yacht but a motor yacht. Here's a description of the LOG for sale: GERM WW2 FANTASTIC OPPORTUNITY TO PURCHASE THIS ULTRA RARE HERMAN GORING PERSONALITY ITEM. THE ORIGINAL LOG BOOKS FOR GORING'S FAMOUS MOTOR YACHT CARIN II, from May 1939 to August 1939 in case, plus Log books for "Royal Albert" 1947 -1948, "Royal Albert" 1948 and Prince Charles commencing June 3rd 1950. (A total of four deck Log books.) The 1939 Log Book is well filled out with many entries listing voyages to and from Goring's home "Carinhall". This book frequently lists the Field Marshall as being aboard, sometimes with family. Named after his first wife Carin, Goring's original yacht was considered by Goring to be beneath to his position in the Third Reich. Built in 1937 to replace her as Goring's personal luxury craft, "Carin II" became one of the worlds most intriguing and exciting historical ships. From the time of her construction, to date she has hosted a varied range of personalities from senior Nazis, including Adolf Hitler, to British Royalty, including Prince Phillip and Prince Charles, various Heads of State and even spies. She has had her fair run with adventures and misfortunes. From her decks in 1938 the rebuilding of the Luftwaffe was planned and she served as Goring's command post during the early stages of the War. Commandeered by Field Marshall Bernard Montgomery at the end of the Second World War, Carin II was placed into the services of the Royal Navy as "Royal Albert" and later "Prince Charles". In 1954 she was the lead boat in the first joint NATO exercise code named "Cordon Bleu". In 1960 "Prince Charles" was handed back to Goring's daughter Emmy. Since then she has again had at least one further name change and let a colourful history with various owners. Another interesting sideline to this is that even whilst the yacht was under British Admiralty command, virtually all the crew were still German and the log book entries were made in their Mother tongue. This is a rare chance to obtain a personality item such as this with a unique and highly interesting history. (Naval history buffs will find further interesting articles concerning Carin II by checking out the Internet.) Grade II. From here: http://www.iswright.com.au/result-mi...php?subcat=231

    From that I would deduce she wasn't officially a "Royal Yacht" but was put at the disposal of the Royal Family. And I can't find any reference to a NATO naval exercise called "Operation Cordon Bleu". There was a land exercise under that name. NATO appears to have held its first major naval exercise "Operation Mainbrace" in September 1952. Maybe the Hitler Diaries forger has been at work here too?

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    Sounds like she was simply employed as a Royal Navy "auxiliary" for a time. Not an unusual practice from what I recall. Our Coast Guard "EAGLE" was a war reparation too... The Royal Family would not likely have had any connection at all save perhaps as passengers aboard for a "Royal Review"?
    Last edited by Art Read; 04-30-2008 at 09:44 AM.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    Nice boat

    Carinhall is landlocked, there may be logs saying that the boat voyaged to and from the place, but they are not a good reason to buy the boat. Maybe they were written by the same guy who "found" Hitler's diaries?

    NATO was founded in 1949, I'm pretty sure their first exercise occurred before 1954.


    There was a Nato Exercise called Cordon Bleu in 1955, it took place on land, involving the US 3rd Armored Cav and other units.

    It seems to me that one of two things is possible:

    Either you have a really amazing boat here, amazing because it travels on the hard well enough to host parties at landlocked loactions and participate in military exercises with M48 tanks.

    Or there is a huge pack of lies written around a rather nice yacht.

    By the way all this information can be found with Google, I'm no expert on Nazi yachting. Google does make it a lot harder to fool the public than it was.
    Last edited by Tom Hunter; 04-30-2008 at 09:43 AM. Reason: comment about Google
    Yachting, the only sport where you get to be a mechanic, electrician, plumber and carpenter

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    "This is a rare chance to obtain a personality item such as this with a unique and highly interesting history. (Naval history buffs will find further interesting articles concerning Carin II by checking out the Internet.)"

    Just a thought; is it not in the worst of taste to trade on Goering's ownership regarding this vessel while the goods of many of the victims remain tied up or unreturned 60 years after the end of hostilities?
    "A personality item." There's something amiss here. The notion of returning this boat to Goering's daughter after a suitably short "mourning period" also sounds off. I'm not disputing the provenance here, just commenting on the strange things people "collect" and the odd notions they will trade on.

    The ship's log should probably be in a museum; perhaps one of the holocaust museums to show what Germany's masters were up to as they ravaged the earth. The boat itself will be a huge undertaking from what little we can see. I find all the undeniable interest in Nazi memorabilia more than a bit off-putting, with Hitler Youth daggers trading at a premium and someone touting Goering's ownership of a beat up old boat as a feature. His ownership is likely all that floats her value at this time.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    Göring had a boathouse at Havel See. "The Oder-Havel Canal - German waterway northeast of Berlin, linking the Havel and Oder rivers. It is 52 mi (83 km) long, 108 ft (33 m) wide, and 6 1/2 ft deep, and is navigable for vessels of up to 1,000 tons. Originally called the Hohenzollern Canal, it was built in 1908–14 to carry traffic between Berlin on the Havel and the Baltic Sea port of Stettin (Szczecin, Pol.) at the mouth of the Oder. It declined in importance until 1945 but then revived with the growth of a chemical industry at Schwedt, on the eastern part of the canal near the Polish border."

    Carin II was built 1937 at Herman Heidtmann Shipyards, River Alster near Hofweg - a tributary that fed into the River Elbe.

    27.5M Length, 4.65M Beam, 1.25 Draught, 70 Tons, Keel to Top of structure 5.20M.

    http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http:/...33969&t=k&om=1http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http:/...33969&t=k&om=1
    Last edited by Metronicity; 04-30-2008 at 11:46 AM. Reason: adding map reference

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    Heidtmann's were, maybe they still are, an outstanding boat builder.

    After WW2 they built quite a number of Philip Rhodes designs for export to the USA.

    I must concede that this boat was probably built for Goering; the British Royal Family connection is the one that I have trouble with.

    In any event after a few years in the Red Sea there won't be much left of her...

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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    Here's a German newspaper report on the sale of Carin 11 in 1978. I don't read German but I managed to translate a couple of interesting pieces - she had a "abnehmbarem steurhaus" - a removable "steering-house" so that she could get under canal bridges I suppose. It also mentions the British Royals using her as a "ausflugsdampfer" - an excursion steamer.
    http://wissen.spiegel.de/wissen/imag...df&thumb=falsehttp://wissen.spiegel.de/wissen/imag...df&thumb=false

    And this Update on my original blog post should silence the doubters once and for all - http://www.welcometowallyworld.com/f...ngs-yacht.html
    Last edited by Metronicity; 04-30-2008 at 01:37 PM. Reason: another link

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    Default Re: Hermann Goering's Motor Yacht "Carin II" Lying in the Red Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by TimH View Post
    Built in Germany?
    Some 2O years ago I was asked to test a 30 MW /60Hz Hydrogenerator built in the ´30s by Siemens-Schuckert, in order to determine certain input-output carachteristics.

    This was my first encounter with a major device engineered and built in Germany.

    To precision build a large machine as such, and that too in the 30´s with no recourse to electronic feedback circuits, left me gaping at the mouth !

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