"Good" Sailmaker's palm

[JollyTar]

Good day folks.

I'm part way through stitching up a new seabag and my old sailmaker's palm is coming apart. I could stitch it back together but would want a sailmaker's palm to force the needle through.... This put me in the unenviable position of searching for a good sailmaker's palm. I've found many of the junk ones with metal clips and buckles.... No thank you. I have found one good one at an outfit in Mississippi at Sailmaker's Supply. I'd prefer to order one in Canada as I'm a transient and would hate to pay 55 bucks (I think that's rather a lot) for a palm that arrives after I've moved on.......... I've written IMP to see what they have. Now I'm looking for your advise/knowledge... Thanks for your help.

Jim

[JollyTar]

Does anybody know if Bainbridge will sell palms to individuals? They appear to market some good gear but I suspect they sell only to retaillers...

[Torna]

The ebay seller "iloveyou99" seems to have a continual stream of old ones up for grabs, both RH and LHanded. I know nothing of palms, but the sellor is a very nice guy.
-leif

[ChrisBen]

A good palm is like a favorite pair of old shoes, hate to get a new pair and break them in. You could get the cheap one to repair your old one or even use your old one as a pattern for a new one using the thimble from the old one. You may be able to ask your sailmaker to order you one from Bainbridge.

[ssor]

Try the Brits across the pond. I think that the demand for these is so small that they are all made by one little olde grey head somewhere on the south coast.

http://marinestore.co.uk/Merchant2/m...dles-and-twine

[kc8pql]

I bought both of mine, seaming and roping, from Sailmakers Supply. Expensive, yes, but they're the real deal. She gets them from Bainbridge.

[dredbob]

I'll just echo kc8pql's remark. I recently bought one of the roping palms from Sailmakers Supply, it's a well made, heavy duty palm. This is the same palm you'll get from the Brits, as well.

Bob

[Covite]

The palms sold by Bainbridge, Sailmaker's Supply, Duckworks Boat Builders Supply and marinestore.co.uk (and most other retailers) are all made by the William Smith & Son company in Redditch, England. It's a very small operation in an industrial park a few miles south of Birmingham. They're not really set up to do retail.

Some of the retailer's websites, including the marinestore.co.uk site, have their photos mixed up - a photo of the "super quality" palm on the link for the "good quality" palm or the other way around. I notice that the marinestore.co.uk site also charges much more for the top grade palms than the U.S retailers.

Most retailers, including Sailmaker's Supply and Duckworks, don't stock the full range of W. Smith & Son palms.

The Bainbridge catalog shows the full range of palms and has the photos right, so you could use it to make sure of what you're buying.

Here's the palms and needles page from the Bainbridge catalog:

http://www.sail-making.com/dbimgs/Pa...edles%20US.pdf

I have the "super quality" seaming and roping palms (C032 and C034 in the Bainbridge catalog). They're excellent.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

W. Smith and Son also make and sell excellent sail needles.

[Bob Cleek]

Keep in mind that few other than professional sailmakers ever get to enjoy a proper palm. A proper palm is like that baseball glove you lubed with Vaseline and used every day when you were a kid. Constant lubrication and use molded it to fit just perfectly. The same with a proper palm. Even the best come from the maker pretty much hard as a rock. You fit it to your hand by soaking and softening and molding it. That takes constant use over a fair period of time. Few of us ever have that much hand sewing to do. I guess it's just something we have to live with.

As for a good one that needs stitching, there is nothing that can beat the "Handy Stitcher." Everybody should have one... and they are still dirt cheap.



Not as "salty" as a real old fashioned palm, but there's nothing better for leatherwork and thick layers of fabric.

[Todd Bradshaw]

Also keep in mind that at least in this country, sizing on Smith palms doesn't seem to be defined. You can adjust the tie joining the two little legs on the back, but if you have big hands, some of them may not fit you. My C030 fits fine, another older one that's similar is OK, but my C034 was so tight that I couldn't even get my hand in it. I ended up taking a pattern off of it, enlarging it and making a similar one. If you have big hands you may want to be sure you can return it in case it doesn't fit.

[paladin]

and repeated soakings in the stuff used to soften baseball gloves help.... and as noted above Smith needles should be purchased by the dozen.....until ya learn not to break them.....

[Covite]

I prefer to break in a new palm either just by using it or by soaking it in hot water, then molding it to my hand by using it. That way, when it dries, it's stiff but fitted to my hand.

Oils and leather conditioners soften the rawhide and leather too much for my taste.

[Vince Brennan]

Chuck: a caveat to your post.

A lot of the palms you'll see on Ebay are listed as "New Old Stock" and, while heavy duty and well made, are often well over 50 years old and preserved with a heavy coat of varnish.

DON'T use Neat's Foot Oil on these as it turns them to mush (DAMHIKT) and all you get is the iron out of 'em.

Lemme also vote for the Smith palms as superior in almost all regards to anything I've ever seen commercially available. Whether you're doing major work, just a few repairs or just want one for your ditty bag, there is no substitute for a comfortable palm and Smith's seem to "comfort-up" the fastest and fit the best. They ARE "pricey", but they're probably the best and definitely worth it.

[paladin]

Vince.....I dunno what this stuff is......had it for quite a while....Franklin, Dr. Glove, professional glove conditioner. You wipe the glove with a clean damp cloth, then spray on the foam conditioner, and rub it in......I have used this on 3 or 4 palms and it works great...
The last time I purchased needles I was planning on crossing to the Black Sea for a while with Irina.......so I stocked up....I have given a couple of the palms to the kids to use, those that wished to learn, but I do have a few needles if anyone has an emergency, my bag is stocked...but as of this morning, my needle nosed pliers seem to have walked off, the ones that I use to pull the small stuff tight through the canvas or leather....and I was charitable enough to loan my grummit setters to Yeadon, but he sez he's going sailing...I told him he could at least hand carry the tools back as I have some covers that need grummitt holes for tie downs....but no.....he's gonna mail the tools, but no helping hand....not even a picture of his work.....I feel sleighted....
at least the 9 year old grandcritter is making progress with the animated knots CD that I got him...Erin has discovered beadwork...I bought her a loom and opened it, made a really nice set of moccasin decorations and started a thunderbird design to attach to a leather fringed jacket, so for 5 hours she was as quiet as a mouse in church making a design, taking it apart, the redoing it, and she's getting very good.....the absolute quietest I have ever seen that kid...5 year old Mikey is getting very good also at fancy lacing and is playing with the beading stuff also. I need to get some cheap stones and settings for earrings and the such for Erin to work with. I made a set of earrings for her mama from some 7 x 5 emeralds and the same thing with rubies.....but this could get REALLY expensive in a hurry...she dropped three stones in the carpet and it took 20-25 minutes to find them.....

[JollyTar]

Thanks for all the help folks. It doesn't appear that Bainbridge will sell me a palm directly. I'll continue to search for one of these William Smith & Sons seaming palms somewhere in Canada. Also, I found out today that the GMDSS course will be running so that leaves me here in cape breton for another five and a half weeks. Likely enough time for something to arrive in the mail if mailled from inside the country.

As a note, most of my needles are from William Smith & Sons and I do like them. They have rounded corners and seem to last me a pretty long time..... Appreciate all of your aid and consideration.


Respectfully,

Jim

[Todd Bradshaw]

Jim, Almost all sailmakers deal with Bainbridge on a regular basis and it might not be too tough to find a local one that would add a palm to one of their orders for you. All they need to do is add a reasonable markup, open the box and hand it to you. That's pretty easy money in the business we're in and might be worth a try.

[JollyTar]

the seaming palm has been located. The shop in Lunenburg dealing with the Picton Castle carries both William Smith & Sons high end seaming and roping palms along with some slightly less, but still far better than most that I've located palms. around 80 dollars for the higher end seaming, 48 for the still acceptable but not as robust. The quest is over....

[Covite]

Glad to hear you found a source.

Don't oil the palm - it would soften the rawhide and leather too much, and attract dirt. Palms are supposed to be stiff, so the pressure of pushing the needle is distributed over the palm of your hand. That way, you can do a lot of sewing without getting a sore hand.

If there are any sharp edges on the rawhide, carefully sand or trim them. Mold the palm to your hand by using it or soaking it in hot water and sewing for awhile.

You want the palm to be stiff, but perfectly fitted to the shape of your hand. A good palm takes awhile to break in, but it's worth it.