Raw Faith

[Tylerdurden]

It's probably free or super cheap since they took the docks out, right Mark?

DAN

Way I am looking at it is when I had the heart attack last year and needed to move the boat of the mooring in Portland no one there would cut me an ounce of slack. I had to go north where Maine really begins to meet decent folks on the water.

[Thad Van Gilder]

according to their website they want to put in a crows nest!

"Upcoming Projects
~Renovate cabins
~Build a crows nest
~Increase wheelchair accessibilty between decks
~Add automatic toilet"

-Thad

[katiedobe]

Really would someone please call the police and swear out a complaint that the owner of that boat is not in his right mind, needs a commitment hearing because he is "a danger to himself and others". They do that all over when a homeless person is raving in front of some store downtown. Why, when someone really is a danger,( he is, and he is mentally ill, Plus I bet he would lose it in front of the cops and judge and maybe get a contempt charge or an assaulting a police officer charge against him) to himself and others we cannot invoke that law?

[S/V Laura Ellen]

according to their website they want to put in a crows nest!..

Will the crows nest be wheelchair accessible?

[Harbormaster]

The Pirate Ship at the mini golf course looks more seaworthy....

[BETTY-B]

What the hell is an automatic toilet? In my opinion, some things are just better left not automatic. But who am I to argue with the lord?

DAN

[Boston]

you have lived a sheltered life Betty

The new and improved Automatic Lou
Its on wheels and goes to wherever you are, that way you save time and energy on all that running back and forth. Why else do you think he is putting in all the ramps. So the automatic toilet can make its rounds.

lets try and keep up with the conversation there Betty these things have been around for a while
hell some even come with ski's instead of wheels for colder clime's



this one pictured isnt automated but you get the idea
you gotta get out more

cheers B

PS
my bet is he is probably talking about the new and improved poop deck

[BETTY-B]

Huh. Weird...

He should do the BD-8101.

[BarnacleGrim]

Really would someone please call the police and swear out a complaint that the owner of that boat is not in his right mind, needs a commitment hearing because he is "a danger to himself and others". They do that all over when a homeless person is raving in front of some store downtown. Why, when someone really is a danger,( he is, and he is mentally ill, Plus I bet he would lose it in front of the cops and judge and maybe get a contempt charge or an assaulting a police officer charge against him) to himself and others we cannot invoke that law?

The sad thing is, when people go nuts they really only have themselves for help. Whatever you do, it will end badly. On one end we're talking about lives of volunteers lost, navigation hazards, cleanup costs, and on the other end we can fry his brains with ECT, reducing him more than Raw Faith ever could, but out of sight and out of everyone's conscience.

Best case scenario is he realises he has gone too far and seeks psychiatric help himself. Then it could actually do him some good.

[Chris Coose]

I'm afraid Portland may just turn into a replay of Rockland.

I know the Harbormaster and I know Phin Sprague @ PYS well.
I can understand Phin's involvement as he knows and has some interest in the exentricities that the ocean may deliver but he is foremost a business man.
The Harbormaster is likely to insist RF is bearthed rather than anchored.

Both of these guys have experienced lots of problems in salvage and both know this ain't like dealing with an abandoned fishing boat.
RF will not be treated as she was in Rockland.

I live just up the Hill from PYS and I have yet to take a walk down. After viewing the image of the rudder rig I will not take the risk of a verbal engagement with anybody who has anything to do with that ocean displacement calamity.

Pretty sure RF is at PYS this day.

[Bill Fisher]

I get lost in this debate about why volunteer (or in the case of the USCG, professional) rescue organizations should risk the lives of their members going to the help of people they have told their venture is foolhardy. Even forbidden them to do it, but they do it anyway. For this reason, I'm glad I don't belong to such an organization. I'm sure I could not keep myself from thinking "Nah, bugger them. I told them not to do this. I'm not going out in that to rescue the silly bastards."

In the fire service, with enough experience, you get to tell what's an accident and what's negligence.

Helping out an accident victim is why I'm a firefighter and the good feelings last and last.

Cutting a drug addict out of his car, and out of the house he drove into (in this case his own), and receiving a letter from the hospital telling all the scene personal to go get checked out (Hep C in the victim) leaves bad feelings that last and last (and if I got Hep C, or worse, last for the rest of my life).

We (first responders) don’t get to choose who we help, our Oath is to save Life and Property, we deal with the emergency that is front of us.


Bill.

[Bill Fisher]

Out here in CA, we just lost seven Coasties and a couple of Marines when a USCG C-130 collided mid-air with a USMC chopper off the coast of Southern CA. The Marines were on a training exercise. The Coastie C-130 was responding to a pleasure vessel's "SOS." As far as I'm concerned, the guys who have to risk their lives to save somebody else's have every right to keep people from doing stupid things that might get rescuers killed.

It's one thing to laugh and make fun of odd-balls like this "Raw Faith" guy, and quite another to watch husbands and fathers die attempting to rescue them from their folly. From what I've seen in this thread, "Raw Faith" needs to be condemned as a "hazard to navigation" and broken up at her owner's expense. She should NOT be allowed to leave port. Enough is enough.

Agreed,

But then first responders (COPs got to have it worse) are probably not the best people to ask about Civil Liberties because we've seen too many of your liberties kill and injure someone else. Sometimes us.

Bill

[Boston]

now there's an age old question rearing its proverbial head again. couple of buddies of mine are cops and my roomy is a nurse. On the one hand you chose that job, on the other you chose it cause you believed in it, not necessarily cause you were looking to get killed doing it for the sake of some nit wit who should have known better. My two cents is it goes with the territory. This blind faith guy is just some nit wit who will eventually get called out. Only thing that can be done is to hope that happens before he hurts "someone else". as there have already been injuries when the masts collapsed last time. The coast guard has to be aware ( and more so than we ) of the dangers involved in that thing and its there call and there dime so to speak. I can only guess there ok with rescuing him over and over or they wouldnt be doing it. Why, is anyone's guess.

[martin schulz]

Well from my point of view this idiot, who built this "object" (to call it boat/ship would not be correct), may do whatever he pleases.

The funny thing is that I know a lot of people like him. They tend to apply for membership in museumharbours. Then when I start explaining that they can do whatever they they want with their boats, but the museumharbour has a certain responsibility to maritime tradition, heritage and historic correctness, they always get angry.

After my explanation I am either:
1. a snob
2. a babbitt
3. preventer of dreams
4. all of the above

[Candyfloss]

As Bill says, Boston, it may not be their call.
God help us all to have the wisdom.

[Chris Coose]

Turns out the Portland Harbormaster has another fine kettle o fish to deal with:



In today's Press Herald:http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/in.../2625591-l.jpg

Further in the article we find this quote by the owner!!!
"Everybody's afraid of wooden boats these days."

BTW, the fellow logged in as "Harbormaster" is not Jeff in Portland.

[Steve Paskey]

The link above is the picture only. The article is here:

http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/st...95088&ac=PHnws

PORTLAND — The Frankie Joe, an old wooden fishing trawler, has become something of a fixture at the city-owned Portland Fish Pier in recent months. Crews from other fishing boats move it up or down the wharf whenever it gets in the way. But the distinctive blue-and-white boat doesn't go far. City officials are worried that it never will.

Portland's harbor master issued an order last month telling the owner, who hasn't paid any berthing fees, to remove the vessel or face fines that could be as much as $500 a day. The city is even considering taking ownership of the boat, although officials hope it won't come to that.

The boat's owner, Keith Fitzell, said he needs just a little more time. Fitzell said he can't leave the harbor or earn money to pay for berthing because fuel and electronic equipment were stolen from the boat while it was tied up at another wharf in June. He's now trying to sell the boat and fishing equipment to cover expenses, and said he's close to finding the Frankie Joe a new home. "It's my absolute number one priority," Fitzell said.

[Vince Brennan]

Bump?

[Boatguy1972]

Bump?

bump to which story, Raw Faith or Frankie Joe?

[Phineas Sprague]

I had to read what is here because the postings and trashing are quite famous. The boat has had a hard time of it for the past several years. They are making a real effort to turn it around. I have had her tied to our pilings for about a month now as she is trying to get lay up insurance and move into a winter berth in Portland.

The boat is there first of all because she came into port needing help and as a sailor I don't turn people away that honestly need help. There is nothing dishonest here. I have helped people before and I will continue to do so... just because it is the right thing to do. It is not a business decision it is an anti-business decision, that gives me pleasure. Helping just because I can. The steering was locking up and I went over the mechanism and the rudder side loads were not calculated properly. I am going to help him set it right. It is not a big job but he needs to have some assistance. Other than the steering repair it is a sail boat.

I have been over the rig the new mast is sound, the chin plates are sound. It is fine and he has all new sails...that he made himself with a bit of help. The running rigging is not as pretty but just as together as the replica that Boothbay Regional Shipyard built a few years ago. And certainly compares favorably to many boats I have seen sailing successfully in the Pacific, Indonesia and Indian Ocean. Definately not elegant. SO what!

The boat is heavily built and with the exception of the steering and relatively simple changes to minor items there is no reason why the vessel can't be successfully sailed...And do the good that he intended when he decided to undertake building it. It may go to windward like the Victory Chimes, but that is life.

All over the world there are "home built boats" sailing successfully. Few of them are 300 ton three masted schooners . Some of them don't look like much... but they work.
Some of them have novel approaches to steering.... but they work. I know of more than one brand new multi million dollar yachts designed by a bevy of naval architects that were recently floating around for a while in the Atlantic with out steering. As a matter of fact one vessel has had more problems than Raw Faith.

Frankly it is much easier and there is less investment in tearing some one down than lending a hand. This guy is not a quitter and with a bit of work he may make it. Most of the issues are swimming up stream against the concensus that seems to want him to be unsuccessful and are poisoning the water around him and ahead of him.

The owner/builder is taking a 100 ton Coast Guard license course.

He is investigating starting a 501(c)3.

The boat passed a port risk on 9/23/2009 survey with four recommendations:

1. A float switch on the bilge pumps so they pump automatically.
2. A carbon monoxide alarm
3. High water alarm on the bilge pumps
4. Cover on the batteries.

I tried to post the survey to offer some facts as opposed to mean spirited stuff, it was too big a document.

Peace, Christmas Spirit and smooth sailing to all.

[S/V Laura Ellen]

Phineas: Thanks for posting. It's nice to hear the other side of the story.

[pcford]

Frankly it is much easier and there is less investment in tearing some one down than lending a hand. This guy is not a quitter and with a bit of work he may make it. Most of the issues are swimming up stream against the concensus that seems to want him to be unsuccessful and are poisoning the water around him and ahead of him.

He is investigating starting a 501(c)3.

I tried to post the survey to offer some facts as opposed to mean spirited stuff, it was too big a document.

Peace, Christmas Spirit and smooth sailing to all.

I have to say this...at least the guy is actually doing something with a boat...this sets him apart from most of the traffic on this forum...which is largely confined to the petty egoists in the Bilge.

[peter radclyffe]

we are not mean spirited, we are genuinely concerned that some youngster will DIE,
dont you get it

[Boston]

Having been a woodwright for more years than I remember I tend to look at "whats" been done rather than "that" its been done. For me, at least, its pride in craftsmanship and being able to stand back and know I did a nice job of it, even if I had to maybe do a few things over. It's satisfaction of a job well done not just a job done.

Although I appreciate you bringing the details to our attention I afraid it would no more persuade me to board that boat than had you suggested a bevy of topless college cheer leaders were on board hula hooping to Donavin's Im Just Mad about Saffron.

some of us take pride in our work

[James McMullen]

Who is Phineas Sprague and what qualifications does he have in saying that this boat is basically sound other than the known steering issues? I'm sorry, Phineas, but my little eye can see enormous structural problems a-building with the hogging and the short planks and the inadequate framing and internal structure just from the few pictures we've seen.

I know you'd like to see a happy ending to this--but this project was doomed from the start when G. McKay failed to gain any schooling, experience or training before starting a life-consuming project like this. Squeaking by on a "port risk survey" ain't the same thing as being able to negotiate an Atlantic storm without dismasting for the third. . .or is the fourth?. . .time. There's not a single person who actually knows anything about large wooden ship construction that approves of any of the disastrous choices made in building this boat.

Phineas, look at the hogging in this picture. These "chin" plates are in no way sound, nor tied in adequately to internal knees, wales or bulkheads. I'm sorry to sound harsh, but you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

[Boston]

Gotta go with Jimmy on this one phineas. check out the distortion in the planking at the chain plates, clearly there is excessive movement in the boats structural components and it hasn'tt even been tried in a real storm yet ( lucky for all aboard ). Look at how off kilter some of those, ( are they supposed to be ) gun ports? couldnt have been built that badly. That must be representative of distortion in the hull. Makes one wonder if it isn't in danger of breaking up in the first choppy water it finds. Its hard to imagine this thing is structurally sound. Maybe you would be good enough to provide some detailed pictures of its construction or maybe a few picts of it from the inside of critical areas. For instance a few shots of the Chain plate bolts would be a nice start along with a few shots of the stringers, knees and bulkhead connections. Might go a long way to proving us wrong if you were to post a bunch of pictures of this boats unmistakably sound construction.

cheers
B

another flagon of ail for the crew
something to keep the spirits up mate
aaarrrrrgggg and now back to me movie
captains courageous

[Upnorth1]

I wouldn't want any of my children going to sea in that boat.

[Roger Long]

Who is Phineas Sprague and what qualifications does he have in saying that this boat is basically sound other than the known steering issues?

Well, he owns and manages the shop that completed the schooner "Lions Whelp" and restored the cutter "Prowess" that won best in show at the Newport wooden boat show (with my restoration drawings) so he's in the top handful of wooden boat builders in Maine if not the nation. He has also sailed a wooden schooner around the world. His opinion carries quite a bit of weight.

I'm not too concerned about the structural integrity of the overall hull myself. I haven't talked to Phin or anyone else directly but I think I could count three layers of oak planks in the portlight cut outs. Three layers all nailed and glued together makes a a fairly strong shell. She's basically cold molded. I think the hogging is the result of building by eye without any plank lining off or tapering. She was evidently built in the same pattern as a brick house just putting one plank on top of the next with the butts staggered. The sheer is just where this process ended up.

It's the details and total lack of any understanding of the actual strains that can be developed on a vessel like this evident in the steering gear and other places that worry me. I'm not concerned about her turning into a collection of floating planks out in the Atlantic. She could probably drift ark like through some pretty severe conditions. I'm more worried (or was) about finding her pounding apart on the headlands of Cape Elizabeth which is about how far I think she would have made it in winds strong enough to sail before the rudder came adrift.

Vessels are often lost though a chain of events started by a small failure. Remember the drilling rig in NS that went down because a small porthole broke and shorted out the ballast system?

I respect Phin for trying to help this guy out. I wish I could do the same but, professionally, if I touch something like this, everything has got to be right when I'm done and it just looks like Afghanistan to me. Given the mind set indicated by what I see from the dock, I can't believe the owner could ever afford or carry through on the scale of things I would have to recommend.

We'll learn something about how well his mooring fittings were attached today as gusts approaching 40 knots blow her towards the pilings. I believe there is a web cam on the Portland Observatory from which you can see her but I haven't found the link yet. Try a Google search.

[Steve Paskey]

There's no question that Mr. McKay has a wonderful vision and is not a "quitter." And perhaps there are home-built boats sailing successfully in the Pacific that are no better built than Raw Faith. But it's one thing for a man to build a boat and go sailing alone. It's another when he proposes to take the public sailing with him, and solicits donations of time and money for that purpose.

Raw Faith has been afloat for over five years, and Mr. McKay is really no closer to realizing his dream than when he launched her. In some ways, he may be farther from it, given that the bare hull has been exposed to the weather and the sea for five years without paint, varnish, or other protection. From everything I've seen, anyone who wants to support the idea of taking handicapped people sailing would do better to put their time, energy, and money into some other project.

[Steve Paskey]

The owner/builder is ... investigating starting a 501(c)3.

I thought he already had a 501(c)(3) nonprofit ... "Accessible Sailing Adventures." Hasn't he been soliciting charitable donations under that name for years? If he doesn't actually have a registered nonprofit, he may have a bit of explaining to do. On the other hand, if he already has a nonprofit and is planning to start a new one, you'd have to wonder why.
.

[Thad Van Gilder]

Yes I talked to someone years ago who told me about the non profit. so he has had one.

I am confused as to how a boat can be launched without bottom paint, left in the water for years, and have no structural problems due to worms. did the worms simply not like the hull?

Let me just throw this out there. and maybe I am wrong. I am sorry ahead of time if I am.

Is it possible that the posting was Phineas Sprague in name only and really typed by a unknowing member of the rawfaith crowd?

Anyone who thinks a hundred ton ticket bought from a captain's school makes a captain a captain does not have any any clue what a captain is responsible for. In my mind there is zero chance that an experienced sailor would accept that someone who is learning by the seat of his pants about running a large boat should be running that boat with innocent people onboard.

Its a travesty that the Coast guard may accept time onboard doing work on the rawfaith as seatime towards a master's ticket. The man has "sailed" his boat,what,5 times? how does that give him enough seatime to get a captain's license? How can a 100 ton license earned that way count as anything other that a sheet of paper?

-Thad

[Ian McColgin]

There's experience requirements for each grade of license that must be backed by logs, employment records or something. Last time I submitted anything, time on a moored boat did not count. Perhaps if the captain's real time is too old for the recency requirement, they are letting moored time slip in but I don't know. While that still does not mean the skipper knows Jack, he may at least know Jill.

It's nice to get some informed up-close opinion. Perhaps the construction compares ok to the Hatian boats featured in our favorite mag some little while back.

[Steve Paskey]

I'm not too concerned about the structural integrity of the overall hull myself. I haven't talked to Phin or anyone else directly but I think I could count three layers of oak planks in the portlight cut outs. Three layers all nailed and glued together makes a a fairly strong shell. She's basically cold molded.

Yes, there are three layers of oak. But apparently they're sandwiched together with pitch, not glue -- a sealant, rather than an adhesive -- so the comparison to cold molding may not be apt. Here's a description of the construction, from an article on "The Working Waterfront" ...

Working on the hull, they have cut boards, nailed them with a nailing gun, slathered them with pitch, drilled holes every five inches, and then pounded 8-inch galvanized spikes through the three layers of oak to secure them to the ribs.

Assuming that there's just pitch between the layers and no glue, how would that affect your assessment of the structural integrity?
.

[huisjen]

How thick is each of these layers of oak?

Dan

[Ian McColgin]

Pitch would be better as planks like that would shear any glue line. This structure relies on the fastenings. I would not have called it "cold-molded" except by generous metaphore as taken from the lighter but analogous structure of medieval shields of three or so cross oriented layers of wood, in that case partly armoured by all the nail heads and then covered with a bull hide, which might not be a bad idea for Raw Faith - more hide, less bull.

[James McMullen]

She was evidently built in the same pattern as a brick house just putting one plank on top of the next with the butts staggered.

I was all set to go off on a rant about how galleons should not be built with layers in an overlapping brick pattern when I stopped and did a little quick Google search.

Turns out there's actually a venerable tradition of this sort of construction for amateur builders.

[Roger Long]

Assuming that there's just pitch between the layers and no glue, how would that affect your assessment of the structural integrity?

Yikes! However, conventional caravel planked boats are one of those things that would be hard to prove work if you subjected them to conventional engineering analysis. As that roofing tar dries, it will develop a lot of resistance to sheer (plank sliding over plank). If he put enough galvanized roofing nails in it, it probably is stronger than you would think, at least until the nails rust out.

What will happen in a hot climate when the roofing tar softens is an interesting question. Maybe he should keep it north of Cape Cod.

[peter radclyffe]

Roger Long tell me your joking

[Thad Van Gilder]

how long does it take non galvanized nails to rust in oak in saltwater... a year or two?


probably not much more.

-Thad

[Ian McColgin]

Goblin's iron fastenings lasted over 60 years. Steel might last only half that.

[Doug Wood]

On paper, I admire the stated mission of this vessel. I also can appreciate the efforts of those who appear to be trying to make it work, with good intentions guiding their way. In the end though, this is about safety at sea, especially given the precious "cargo" that would be aboard. The sea can be a very unforgiving place, even for those in well built boats and for crew who have many years of blue water sailing experience. I'm hopeful that the principal(s) involved will proceed with an over-the-top amount of due diligence before making any decision to shove off.

[James McMullen]

I don't think I'm nearly as afraid of Raw faith becoming a collection of floating planks as I am of her becoming a sodden, worm-riddled, oaken, hazard to navigation in the middle of somebody's harbor entrance once she dismasts (again) or her steering fails (again) too close to a lee shore where the Coast Guard isn't able to quickly rescue her. Barring a fire, though, those triple layers of white oak spiked together with sludge hammers [sic] will probably be around to haunt us for many years to come.

[Boston]

.

I think it reasonable to take a long hard look at the deformation in the planking lines. While it certainly would be true that failing to taper and cut of the planks would result in some pretty goofy looking lines its equally as true that simple coincidence would not concentrate those odd lines in exactly the areas of greatest stress. Notice the distinct upward sweep of the sheer line farthest to the right as it reaches the 1st plate to the right, from there notice the change in sheer line between that 1st plate and the second. This can hardly be coincidence. Also notice the top line of the short top railing between the 3rd and 4rth plates from the right. It is also deformed and significantly out of level not only with ground but also in relation with the railing to its immediate left. The oposite is true of the top line of the railing to its imediate right and the deformation is clearly concentrated and begins between the first and second Stanchion from the right of the picture. Considering that the plates would put tension in exactly this area and have exactly this effect it seems hardly reasonable the simple sloppy construction would have resulted in four or five coincidences all just happening to reflect what would also be the exact pattern of deformation one would expect from a structural deficiency in this area. Also notice that the line of the planking bellow the four plates on the right hand side of the picture is not deformed in a similar manor, a fifth coincidence is hardly likely.

the law of coincidence if I remember it correctly states that
one unusual event has an even chance of just being coincidence
two unusual events have 1/4 chance of being coincidence
three 1/16 chance of random occurrence
four 1/256 chance
and five 1/65,536 chance of occurring randomly

a similar pattern a coincidental? deformation can be seen in the plates to the left but its not as obvious as the ones on the right

even assuming that this is just one more coincidence the result is a 1 in 4,294,967,296 chance of this being random

I'd be looking hard at the structural integrity of this thing long before I "sunk" one dime in doing anything but bringing off the crew.

if that really was Phin who posted and he really believes this hulk has a chance then I'd hope he takes me up on my request to post some detailed pictures. I'd really like to see what the inside of this thing looks like. Oh and if posible take a few shots down the line of the planking from the inside of the areas Ive described if you could.

cheers
B

[Roger Long]

While it certainly would be true that failing to taper and cut of the planks would result in some pretty goofy looking lines its equally as true that simple coincidence would not concentrate those odd lines in exactly the areas of greatest stress.

But, there has never been any real stress at these points. The masts simply fell down her first time out. She then sat in Rockland for four years with the stays visibly slack (at least the few times I sailed by). She next was towed in calm weather from Rockland to Portland.

If it is hog, rigging strain has nothing to do with it.

[Sailor]

Is it just me or does this creation look hogged too?

[Sailor]

It does look more 16th century than RF though!

[Boatguy1972]

I am dismayed by most of the comments in this thread. The Raw Faith brought me to this forum simply because I knew it was being discussed in here. After reading thru this thread I thought I had a better understanding of who George was and what the Raw Faith was. I am glad I approached the man and the boat with an open mind, because the person that I met and the boat that I saw do not match what is being portrayed here. Until you have actually, physically gone on board for yourself or have taken the time to sit down with the owner, you can't possibly come up with an informed opinion.

[johnw]

I am dismayed by most of the comments in this thread. The Raw Faith brought me to this forum simply because I knew it was being discussed in here. After reading thru this thread I thought I had a better understanding of who George was and what the Raw Faith was. I am glad I approached the man and the boat with an open mind, because the person that I met and the boat that I saw do not match what is being portrayed here. Until you have actually, physically gone on board for yourself or have taken the time to sit down with the owner, you can't possibly come up with an informed opinion.

Please tell us your informed opinion.

[Steve Paskey]

... the boat that I saw do[es] not match what is being portrayed here. Until you have actually, physically gone on board for yourself or have taken the time to sit down with the owner, you can't possibly come up with an informed opinion.

Welcome! If you truly have an informed opinion, we'd love to hear more. Start by telling us your background and experience -- why you're qualified to assess the boat's condition -- and then explain, point by point and in detail, why the assessment of the very experienced people on this forum are wrong. Pictures of the boat's interior structure would be particularly welcome.

[peter radclyffe]

can you please also post the
hull construction drawings,
engineering drawings
& photos ,
c'vs of build team,
survey reports,
material suppliers,
in order that we may make a clear , balanced judgment
some folks here want so very much to be proven wrong in what may be considered a deathtrap
god forbid any harm will come to the crew