25 to 28 foot plywood"trawler"/"tug" design.

[P.L.Lenihan]

Hi,
I'm looking for a plywood design that would more or less fit the description of either a "trawler" or "tug" in overall styling.The boats intended use is on the St.Lawrence river as a day boat and,once in a blue moon,weekender.There also may be the odd two week dream cruise down-stream to Quebec City or South onto Lake Champlain.
This boat is for a retired fellow who would like to build as much of it as possible alone with occassional help. Either inboard or outboard power would be fine.
Any nifty designs out there that sorta fit the bill?

Thanks all!

Peter

[JimD]

Peter, I like this one by Ken Hankinson:

FRED MURPHY

a 26' to 29' tugboat

Build in
PLYWOOD, ALUMINUM, STEEL

CATEGORY: Tug Yachts
CONSTRUCTION: Sheet plywood/wood framing, or welded aluminum or steel
Characteristics Length overall 26'2"(**) Beam 9'8" Draft 3'0" Displacement 8350 lbs. Suggested power range 20-50HP Speed within HP range 7 kts. Fuel capacity 60 gals. (**)28'10" opt.
It's probably not fair to class our Fred Murphy as a "mini-tug" since it's capable of serious cruising whether for work or play. The deep draft displacement hull has the seakindliness and feel of a little ship whether you build the short or longer option, both of which use the same plan set. The spacious forward cabin includes two 6' 6" berths with space for a head below and with hanging lockers aft both sides. Additional storage is below the berths and whatever one arranges in the deckhouse, which can be outfitted with additional accommodations, galley, and helm station as desired. You can even lengthen the house a couple of feet for more enclosed space if you wish.



Edited to add: But that's a pretty big boat (and a lot of building for a solo retired gent) for a daytripper. Hankinson and Glen-L both have designs in the 18-20 range that would probably do the job. Check out Bo Jest (or not):

[JimD]

Devlin Godzilla 25:

[P.L.Lenihan]

Thanks for those JimD! I've copied(printed) them and put them in a nice folder which will be presented to the builder-to-be this coming weekend.

Peter the illiterate

[paladin]

Peter...
I have sent the lines drawings to Rribbitt.....although not plywood, she was designed for strip planking with minimal ply and most of it is in the deck and house...less than 20 hp will do hull speed. Unlike the others posted she only has 3 1/2 feet on the "back porch" and a large cabin aft of the wheelhouse......

[P.L.Lenihan]

Chuck,
Just got it and right back at you

Merci Beaucoup!!

Peter

[JimD]

Pierre, another somewhat smaller than requested but still a good size at 22 feet. A new design by Paul Fisher. Don't think any have been built yet but her smaller precursors at 17 and 20 feet have been:

22' RUFUS MOTOR CRUISER


<DIV align=center>

<SPAN style="language: EN-GB; mso-default-font-family: Arial; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-latin-font-family: Arial; mso-greek-font-family: Arial; mso-cyrillic-font-family: Arial; mso-hebrew-font-family: Arial; mso-arabic-font-family: Arial; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-armenian-font-family: Arial; mso-currency-font-family: Arial; mso-latinext-font-family: Arial"><FONT size=2><FONT color=#000080><FONT face=Arial>The standard 17’ Rufus plans include the frame and panel shapes for both a 20’ and a fantailed stern version but we have been getting many requests for a slightly longer version and so we jumped at the chance to draw up a completely new set of plans when asked to lengthen the standard design.

And the smaller version:

[BrianY]

there's the Trawler 28 from bateau.com:

http://www.bateau.com/studyplans/TW2....htm?prod=TW28

and there's the Downeaster 25 - not exactly a trawler but maybe worth considering:
http://www.bateau.com/studyplans/DE2...od=DE25Cockpit

Then there's the "Bluejacket" series of boats - Not trawlers or tugs, per se, but still something that might be worth considering:

http://bluejacketboats.com/index.htm

[GoldDogs]

http://devlinboat.com/

[P.L.Lenihan]

Thanks folks for the interesting leads. I'm printing them all for a nice dossier to present to the builder.

JimD; that new 22 RUFUS motor cruiser is a looker! Almost makes me wish I was looking for a build myself....better not to confuse things this close to the end

Once again, thanks for the help folks!

Peter

[Spokaloo]

McNaughton has some boats, one a little smaller, one a little bigger.

Bufflehead at 22':



Osprey at 30':



Tad Roberts has some goodies. This is cold molded, but thats a pretty easy step above sheet ply, and pretty easy for the one-handed guy with LOTS of staples. 28' Ironboark:



Boojum from Kasten Marine is sheet aluminum, which might be possible in wood, depending on whether he used conic sections and aluminum plate (I think he did, as it has a CNC kit):



Oh, and John Holtrup's Hilda 26:



Thats what I can remember....

E

[JimD]

Here's a McNaughton Bufflehead in aluminium. Its quite an odd looking boat in the flesh. A pro from the yard that fitted her out said something like he wouldn't trust her to cross a duck pond. A little harsh, perhaps. I have only seen her underway in very flat water coming into her berth at Cowichan Bay:

[Spokaloo]

Shes flat bottomed, I wouldn't be too suprised if she wasn't particularly seaworthy.

E

[erant]

Arch Davis' Jack Tar is a nice looking boat.

http://archdavisdesigns.com/davis_jacktar.html

[Ron 312]

Chesapeake Marine Design has the Trailer Trawler 28.

http://www.cmdboats.com/index.htm

[kengrome]

Mal Low still has his website up, so maybe he still sells some 'real' tug boat plans:

http://www.smalltugs.com/

Seems like lots of good info there for the person who wants real working tug boat designs, or even what he calls 'character tugs'.

[Wiley Baggins]

Noyo Trawler from Glen-L?

http://www.glen-l.com/designs/workboat/noyo.html

[JimD]

Noyo Trawler from Glen-L?

http://www.glen-l.com/designs/workboat/noyo.html

Some interesting variations have been made:

[dirtsailor]

I still really like this one by Scott Sprague. And with the price of fuel soaring into...... The thoughts of a small efficient diesel is really appealing.

[JimD]

Dirtsailor! Where'd you get those Scott Sprague plans? Are they quite old? I've been googling around for ages with no luck.

[dirtsailor]

Jim,

I purchased them Back in 1994 or there abouts, my first real set of plans. I saw the boat in the launchings section of our sponsors magazine. It was built by one of the PNW wooden boat schools. The plans were sold through the now defunct Databoat. Scott Sprague's business is Accumar Corp in Washington,
http://www.accumar.com/

I have tried contacting him recently via email to see if there are any pictures floating around, but have not received a response, I had planned to call, but keep getting side tracked. When I first bought the plans I had a couple nice correspondences with him.

I really like the boat, and it can be built from ply, so one of these years (sixteen more years till both kids are out of the house) I'll get to start.

[eastern270]

I also have a set of those tug plans from scott sprague purchased thru databoat many years ago. I also spoke with him on the phone and he sold me another set of plans for a 28' long x 10' beam tug boat which looks almost identical to the 24 except for the buttock lines are dropped a little more towards the stern giving it a little more speed. The hull bottom on the 28' is also convexed ????. A little more work involved in lofting it I suppose. I also would someday like to build the 24'. Maybe my next project. Very easily lofted. It is all striaght lines from sheer to chine and chine to keel. I have some pictures that came with the plans and if I can I will try to post when I get a chance. Not very views of the boat but better than nothing.
Hope this helps,
Sean

[eastern270]

heres the photos like promised in my last post. I still can't figure out how to post pictures directly to the forum so heres the links of the pictures I scanned. Hope it works.
Sean M.

http://s250.photobucket.com/albums/g...24tug-2jpg.jpg

http://s250.photobucket.com/albums/g...rague24tug.jpg

[nezih ahmet]

Dear Sir,
I tried to reach the Plan suplliers of Scott Sprogue.Bot not possible.Even impossible.As I understand you have this design.Can you make one copy for me.If yes,pls inform the cost.
Regards
Nezih

I still really like this one by Scott Sprague. And with the price of fuel soaring into...... The thoughts of a small efficient diesel is really appealing.

[nezih ahmet]

Dear Sir,
I tried to reach the plan supplier,but not succeed.As understand you 24ft plans.Can you make one copy for.
If yes,pls inform the cost.
Regards
Nezih

Re: 25 to 28 foot plywood"trawler"/"tug" design.

I also have a set of those tug plans from scott sprague purchased thru databoat many years ago. I also spoke with him on the phone and he sold me another set of plans for a 28' long x 10' beam tug boat which looks almost identical to the 24 except for the buttock lines are dropped a little more towards the stern giving it a little more speed. The hull bottom on the 28' is also convexed ????. A little more work involved in lofting it I suppose. I also would someday like to build the 24'. Maybe my next project. Very easily lofted. It is all striaght lines from sheer to chine and chine to keel. I have some pictures that came with the plans and if I can I will try to post when I get a chance. Not very views of the boat but better than nothing.
Hope this helps,
Sean

[eastern270]

I have a set of plans for the Scott Sprague 24' tug as referenced above. Could someone please advise me legally of making a copy for someone else. These plans are no longer available online or elsewhere. Your advice would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Sean

[kengrome]

Hi Sean,

From my understanding ...

Legally it is the heirs of the designer who inherit the rights to copy and sell (or give away) plans sets, not someone like you who bought a set of plans yourself.

You can resell your plans to someone else if they have not been used to build a boat, but I don't see how you can legally photocopy and sell the copies without first obtaining this privilege from the current copyright owners -- probably Scott Sprague's wife and/or kids.

This is my personal understanding of the laws surrounding this issue, and I'm not an attorney, so I suggest that you confirm this info with a legal authority before you do anything ...

[Robmill0605]

I have a set of plans for the Scott Sprague 24' tug as referenced above. Could someone please advise me legally of making a copy for someone else. These plans are no longer available online or elsewhere. Your advice would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Sean

I'm concerned about this.
This gentleman has pm'ed me asked me to make copies of Mal Lows plans for him. I told him I had the plans, but would not make copies of the design for him. Here is the unedited emails , and one from the designer. I believe that plans are the itellectual property of the designer, and unless he/she is deceased and they are in the public domain, it is unethical to copy them. i do not know why this guy keeps asking for plans. Either he doesn't understand this, or something else.

Dear Mal,

I hope you are well. I received this email on at the Wooden boat forum that I belong to requesting a copy of your plan for Powder Puffer which I am building. When he sends me his email address, I will forward it to you for you to contact him.
Warm Regards,
Bob Miller
...................
Dear Sir, Thanks for yr mail.I tried to visit that web.Due to some problems on my server,not succeed.Can you supply one Powder Puff copy from your plans.And pls inform me its price.
regards
Nezih

Dear Sir,
I tried to reach the mentioned Web.Bot not succeed.As I understand,you already ordered
the plans of it.Do you the 21 Ft Powder Puff Plans at the moment?
Regards
Nezih/Istanbul

Hi,

Yes, I have the plans . Try this link, it will take you to where you can order the plans.
Regards,
Rob
http://www.smalltugs.com/

[/quote]


Hi Nezih,

Please send me your email address and I will forward it to the designer here in the US. He is giving away the plans for free , he just charges $ 15.00 USA for shipping and handling.
I cannot make a copy of the plans as they are the intellectual property of the designer Mal Low, and it is not ethical for me to copy his design to a third party..
I will be happy to have Mal contact you directly via email for you to obtain the plans.
Regards,
Bob Miller

.....

I recieved this email from the designer, Mal Low:

Hi Bob:

Thanks for passing this along. This gentleman has been in touch with us and we have given him ordering information.

I appreciate very much your consideration of my intellectual property rights in this matter.

I hope you have great success in your building project.

Regards, Mal

[kengrome]

He contacted me about getting plans of Mal Low's Powder Puff too -- which I thought was rather strange since my post provided a link to Mal's website where he could easily order the plans directly from the source.

In a second PM he explained that he was actually looking for "full-sized" plans and when he contacted Mal he learned that Mal does not sell full-sized drawings. My guess is that he was hoping to find someone else who has created full-sized drawings so he wouldn't have to loft them himself -- because I don't think he has this ability based on what he told me:

"Do you know any people who has the
full size plans. As I am not so professional
it will be so easy to produce from plans only."

I deal with people who use English as a second language all the time, so I know how easy it is to misunderstand something a person says who doesn't use English as his first language. Therefore I did not think anything bad or unethical about this request, especially after he said he already contacted Mal himself.

I like all these tugs so it's no surprise to me that others may like them all too. It is also no surprise that a novice will hope to find someone who has a set of full-sized plans he can trace onto the wood / metal / whatever rather than lofting them himself.

And I should also say that in some countries intellectual property rights are so consistently ignored or abused -- without any repercussions such as punishment or jail or anything similar -- that people sometimes grow up thinking that it's no big deal to sell copies of books, or plans, or DVD's, or other kinds of intellectual property because it is done so blatantly and regularly in their cultures that some people probably grow up thinking it is NOT against the law.

I didn't really get the impression that Nezih is trying to break the U.S. laws which apply to selling boat plans. Instead I think he may simply not understand these laws since their enforcement may be a bit different in his country.

[Robmill0605]

kengrome

Thanks for this info. I tried to help him out, it just seemed strange to me that he seemed to be fishing for plans.
He seems to be ok, as he was offering to pay for them.
Anyway, you are probably correct that he is seeking full size drawings and does not know how to loft.
To be fair, I'm not sure my Turkish would be up to speed if this was reversed and I was asking for info in his lanaguage.
I think he needs Selway-Fisher or Glen L who I believe can provide him with full size patterns.
I'll send him a pm and the links to them.
I think it's important to recognize and respect the rights of the designer in these matters.

[nezih ahmet]

Gentleman
I read your msg about my inquiry.
As informed on my previous msg,I finally contacted Mal and learned details.They do not have full size plans.They have only
plans and skilled people can build from plans.After receiving that
msg from Mall,I gave up and tried to look for full size plans.BCS I
DO NOT HAVE SO MUCH EXPERIENCE TO BUILD BOATS FROM PLANS ONLY.If it is against rules,no problem and pls forget this subject.I hope it is clear.
Nezih Ahmet

I'm concerned about this.
This gentleman has pm'ed me asked me to make copies of Mal Lows plans for him. I told him I had the plans, but would not make copies of the design for him. Here is the unedited emails , and one from the designer. I believe that plans are the itellectual property of the designer, and unless he/she is deceased and they are in the public domain, it is unethical to copy them. i do not know why this guy keeps asking for plans. Either he doesn't understand this, or something else.

Dear Mal,

I hope you are well. I received this email on at the Wooden boat forum that I belong to requesting a copy of your plan for Powder Puffer which I am building. When he sends me his email address, I will forward it to you for you to contact him.
Warm Regards,
Bob Miller
...................
Dear Sir, Thanks for yr mail.I tried to visit that web.Due to some problems on my server,not succeed.Can you supply one Powder Puff copy from your plans.And pls inform me its price.
regards
Nezih

Hi Nezih,

Please send me your email address and I will forward it to the designer here in the US. He is giving away the plans for free , he just charges $ 15.00 USA for shipping and handling.
I cannot make a copy of the plans as they are the intellectual property of the designer Mal Low, and it is not ethical for me to copy his design to a third party..
I will be happy to have Mal contact you directly via email for you to obtain the plans.
Regards,
Bob Miller

.....

I recieved this email from the designer, Mal Low:

Hi Bob:

Thanks for passing this along. This gentleman has been in touch with us and we have given him ordering information.

I appreciate very much your consideration of my intellectual property rights in this matter.

I hope you have great success in your building project.

Regards, Mal[/quote]

[nezih ahmet]

Gentleman
I read your msg about my inquiry.
As informed on my previous msg,I finally contacted Mal and learned details.They do not have full size plans.They have only
plans and skilled people can build from plans.After receiving that
msg from Mall,I gave up and tried to look for full size plans.BCS I
DO NOT HAVE SO MUCH EXPERIENCE TO BUILD BOATS FROM PLANS ONLY.If it is against rules,no problem and pls forget this subject.
I hope it is clear.
Nezih Ahmet
P.S:30 years ago my friend bought Play'n Jane Full Size Plans from
Glen-L and my friend built it from Full Size plans.I know how
difficult to build from FULL SIZE PLANS also.Hence I looked for
full size plans not plans only.

He contacted me about getting plans of Mal Low's Powder Puff too -- which I thought was rather strange since my post provided a link to Mal's website where he could easily order the plans directly from the source.

In a second PM he explained that he was actually looking for "full-sized" plans and when he contacted Mal he learned that Mal does not sell full-sized drawings. My guess is that he was hoping to find someone else who has created full-sized drawings so he wouldn't have to loft them himself -- because I don't think he has this ability based on what he told me:

"Do you know any people who has the
full size plans. As I am not so professional
it will be so easy to produce from plans only."

I deal with people who use English as a second language all the time, so I know how easy it is to misunderstand something a person says who doesn't use English as his first language. Therefore I did not think anything bad or unethical about this request, especially after he said he already contacted Mal himself.

I like all these tugs so it's no surprise to me that others may like them all too. It is also no surprise that a novice will hope to find someone who has a set of full-sized plans he can trace onto the wood / metal / whatever rather than lofting them himself.

And I should also say that in some countries intellectual property rights are so consistently ignored or abused -- without any repercussions such as punishment or jail or anything similar -- that people sometimes grow up thinking that it's no big deal to sell copies of books, or plans, or DVD's, or other kinds of intellectual property because it is done so blatantly and regularly in their cultures that some people probably grow up thinking it is NOT against the law.

I didn't really get the impression that Nezih is trying to break the U.S. laws which apply to selling boat plans. Instead I think he may simply not understand these laws since their enforcement may be a bit different in his country.

[eastern270]

Nezih,
I may have misunderstood what you are looking for or else you misunderstood what plans I have. The plans that I have from Scott Sprague are plans that need to lofted by the builder full size. They are not full size patterns and I do not want to make copies of the plans to for anyone as I mentioned in case it may be illegal, get me kicked off the forum or otherwise. Have you tried to contact Scott Sprague at his business number. I called him there with a question about his plans many years ago and left a message and he got back to me. If he says I can make a copy of the plans for you then no problem. I'm not trying to be difficult I just don't need trouble and want to be fair.

[Robmill0605]

Nezih
I hope you understand , that one of the great things about this forum and it's members, is the willingless to help each other out as much as possible.
Now that we understand that you want full size patterns, and not just plans, I recommend you look at Selway-Fisher, or Glen L for this.
Sorry for any confusion on my part of your intentions, it just seemed strange, but I now understand why.
If you like the Mal Low tug plans, they are very easy to draw full size ,as it has a flat bottom, and each frame is just a rectangle which also stays in the boat, so you do not have to make molds etc.
Also, Mal offers a building manual on his boats which shows you exactly how to do this step by step. I highly recommend this approach, for about $35.00 us, you get both.
If you are going to build a boat, this is about as simple as it gets. No curves to worry about.
I will be happy to help you in any possible and welcome to the forum.
Regards,
Rob

[nezih ahmet]

Dear Sir,
I sent few E Mails to Scott Sprague 24 Ft plans supplier.I have not received any reply till now.If I had contacted I would buy from them.Why shall I disturb you then.I think Company closed and new owner is not interested in.What to do.We will drink a cup of water after these unsuccesfull attemps.
Regards
Nezih

Nezih,
I may have misunderstood what you are looking for or else you misunderstood what plans I have. The plans that I have from Scott Sprague are plans that need to lofted by the builder full size. They are not full size patterns and I do not want to make copies of the plans to for anyone as I mentioned in case it may be illegal, get me kicked off the forum or otherwise. Have you tried to contact Scott Sprague at his business number. I called him there with a question about his plans many years ago and left a message and he got back to me. If he says I can make a copy of the plans for you then no problem. I'm not trying to be difficult I just don't need trouble and want to be fair.

[nezih ahmet]

Dear Sir,
You know why I prefer Full Size Plans.Full size Paper Sheet dimensions are fitted for full size frames.Scale is 1/1.You spread the sheets on wood and take the copy.So it is easy and you do not make a mistake.I heard few people,prepared frames from plans and small mistake went on till the end construction finished.
Result,faulty boat.
So,the best way is the easiest way.
Thanks and regards
Nezih

Nezih
I hope you understand , that one of the great things about this forum and it's members, is the willingless to help each other out as much as possible.
Now that we understand that you want full size patterns, and not just plans, I recommend you look at Selway-Fisher, or Glen L for this.
Sorry for any confusion on my part of your intentions, it just seemed strange, but I now understand why.
If you like the Mal Low tug plans, they are very easy to draw full size ,as it has a flat bottom, and each frame is just a rectangle which also stays in the boat, so you do not have to make molds etc.
Also, Mal offers a building manual on his boats which shows you exactly how to do this step by step. I highly recommend this approach, for about $35.00 us, you get both.
If you are going to build a boat, this is about as simple as it gets. No curves to worry about.
I will be happy to help you in any possible and welcome to the forum.
Regards,
Rob

[eastern270]

The plans I have for the 24' tug are not full size. They are on sheets that are about 24 inches by 30 inches. The are drawn to a scale where 3/4 inch equals one foot. These plans must be used to loft (draw) the boat full size and work out any errors that may be on the drawings and then full size patterns can be taken from your drawing. What it sounds to me that you are looking for is full size patterns already drawn for you which I do not have. Maybe some one else could help me explain this better if it is not already clear enough unless I'm misunderstanding something. This forum is also very helpful, informative and supportive to a hobby which we all have in common. I think the problem is miscommunication or misunderstanding of what was wanted.