Repairing rust damage to table saw? (an interesting mystery too)

[guillemot]

This took me a while to figure out. A couple of months ago, I started finding weird stains on my tools and benchtop in the basement. They were patchy and they smelled bad. Then I found these rust stains on both the table saw (new just last fall!!) and band saw, and I was pretty mad.





The stains were always linear and changed orientation when I moved the saw. I thought at first that mice were peeing on everthing, then I put it together. It wasn't mice, it was this little rascal, Myelin:



She looks innocent, but she pees when she gets excited. Her urine must have dripped through the floor to the basement on several occasions and gotten on the tools. More training has stopped the source of the rust (she doesn't pee on the floor any more!), but not the symptoms.

How can I save my saws and clean off the rust stains? Bob - this could be a great opportunity for a photo documentary .

All suggesions are appreciated. I am no longer giving her away either, since she has agreed to stop wetting my tools.

Jeff

[ 07-08-2005, 07:59 PM: Message edited by: guillemot ]

[Nomad17]

Jeff... Thru the floor and dripping on your tools... Myelin must be a hell of a dog... I think that you got new tools and she got jealous of them because you spent so much time with them and not her. She peed on them to get even when you were not around. Dogs will do strange things... Any other ideas? CYA

[Victor]

Muriatic acid and I'll take her!

[Con LanAdo]

if you have not neutered her & wish to breed her i have (in my mind) the dawg of a lifetime whose stud capabilities are legandary - you might give me another excuse (like i need one)to do a rd trip to Cabela's. Of course, the offer stands for anyone with a FL & on route to same, BassPro etc. would also be considered. Oh heck, even the Wooden Boat Show.

[ 07-08-2005, 07:48 PM: Message edited by: Con LanAdo ]

[Bob Smalser]

My machines live in tents and all look like that occasionally. I just scrub them off with WD-40 and red Scotchbrite followed by a light coat of oil. Then I wipe them off before using.

When I finish their permanent home and move them indoors, I'll treat the surfaces to phosphoric acid metal prep to kill the rust in any pits, followed by sanding blocks to clean, followed by Brownell's phosphate Oxpho Blue applied to the degreased surfaces with grey Scotchbrite in multiple coats....followed by that light coat of oil again.

I find wax doesn't work in my damp climate. I use whatever oil I have handy, but prefer Mobile One 30wt for general lube (almost the same thing as spendy BreakFree at a fraction of the price.)

You'll never get rid of the stains without a proper regrinding on a surface grinder, but the bluing will hide them and look good doing it. It's also a decent rust preventative by itself.

Take a hand-held power tool to them, however, and you'll likely ruin the "flat" of your cast iron tables.

[ 07-08-2005, 08:44 PM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[Katherine]

I'd hate to see what your carpeting looks like.

[Doug B]

I have found that the best way to remove rust from a flat surface is the sandvik carbide blade scraper. A long time ago an old time gun smith taught me how to work metal with hand tools. His advice was to scrape rusted surfaces with steel harder than iron oxide. Well this worked, but he never knew carbide.

[Ed Harrow]

Originally posted by guillemot:
This took me a while to figure out. ...



Jeff

Oh, Jeff, whoda thunk it. Ida thought that was a once in a life time event but, nooooo, it hadta happen to you, too.

In my case it was slightly different, tho there was a canine involved. Beau used to sleep in the hall outside our br door. We got a new "temp" (one of the nameless ones...) who, it turned out, was absolutely petrified of dogs, and Beau was all dog, ~ 125 pounds of all dog. So our temp, upon awakening at night with an urge, and opening the door to see Beau, with the bath on the other side of him, used the closet as his own private bath. Fortunately it didn't take me but two events to figure it out.

I used Bob's basic technique.

[PeterSibley]

Bob...thanks for the info.I find a good way of oiling everything ,including my scap steel pile ,is to spray the lot with a mix of kerosene and oil.The kero evapourates leaving the oil behind .Works well.

[GregH]

In the spring, my garage gets quite damp, so my table saw top gets some surface rust. My solution is to spray it with penetrating oil, let it soak for several hours, then wipe with an abrasive pad. Then I spray it with a product called Top Cote. It's a good protectant, and makes the wood slide like it's on glass, with no staining .

[Doug Wood]

When I bought my TS a couple years ago, (used) it had rust on it. I placed a Scotch brite pad on my orbital sander and went to work - took care of the problem in short order. I then wiped down the table with waxed paper, which put a thin layer of wax down. Worked great for me.

[ssor]

I know that this is not going to solve any problems but I have noticed that steel exposed to the weather and constant contact with hands develops a hard shiny brown patina that is quite durable. I also remember that besides "bluing" on firearms there was a technique called "browning". I have not read the details or chemistry of either technique but perhaps someone else has.

[Billy Bones]

My warm, damp and salty climate gives me the same headaches and I use pretty much Bob's technique. You can stick a scotchbrite pad to the bottom of a random orbit sander and speed up the work, just work an even pattern over the surface. Lube with mineral spirits if you like. You can 180wetordry paper won't affect the flat much--not as much as the flex on the surface induced by an uneven floor, which is negligible, so long as you keep a pattern and don't work any area more than another. I've had to do this several times after hurricanes and still can see original milling patterns evenly in all my tops.

Good luck.

[pipefitter]

There is this stuff called boshield or something that sounds like that that we use on the table saw at work after the treatment described above. there is 2 parts to it. A metal conditioner and then a coating that lasts for a long time and it doesnt get on the wood. The table top stays just slick enough for the work to slide on it nicely.

[Dave Fleming]

Us Old Geezers had a different approach.

Belief was that CI had pores in the surface that left open would accelerate the formation of rust.

When a machines work surfaces required protection the idea was to fill those pores with a permanent moisure proof substance.

Plain old canning wax aka parrafin was used.

A source of heat just enough to warm up the CI and the apprentice/s would start rubbing the top with parrafin blocks, scrub off the excess, wipe till almost shiney and repeat the next day.
A big 16 inch Greenlee Table Soar has a very big top!

Later on we used plain old Johnson's Paste Wax or Treewax or Butchers Wax all furniture or floor care products.
Carnuba wax and other waxes were the main ingredients.

They were a bit thinner in consistency which made it a bit easier to apply and wipe down.

If you use this technique make damn sure the wax you choose is free of Silicon!

That stuff plays hell with glue ups and many finishes.

Still got a can or two of Treewax around here somewhere.

I recall an incident where the top of the outside bandsoar was left uncovered over the weekend.
Ayup it rained all weekend and come Monday morning that top looked just awful.
A can of that Dupont rubbing compound was put in the hands of a certain forgetful apprentice and he was instructed to rub that top till it shined like the bumper on the boss's '63 Buick.
Several hours later that top did shine though not as brite as the Buick bumper. Then the parrafin treatment was applied.
That certain apprentice never forgot to put the covers on any machinery again! [img]redface.gif[/img]

[Paul Girouard]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by pipefitter:
[QB]There is this stuff called boshield or something that sounds like that that we use on the table saw at work after the treatment described above.
Boeshield Develped by Boeing Aviation for long -term metal protection. $26.99

Gee we an't flying our tablesaws , clean it like Bob said . Paste wax it for slickness, don't worry about it contanimating the surface if the tablesaw bed is the last thing passed over your work it an't ready for any finish so it will look like HE dbl hockey sticks when you apply what ever you'd be using as a finish anyway . You got to sand or hand scrape with a scrapper or sand to at least 150 grit for a good looking job or finer grits,, in most cases' ,,for a boat oar I'd sand less than I would for a table top . Savie ?? So WD 40 scotch brite it , wax it , use it IMHO HTBH PEG

[pipefitter]

I guess in this high humidity we dont have time to treat our saw every day.Yes,it would rust every night even using it every day and the boshield does work well and it stays that way and water will bead up on it after the boshield is used. Works great on padlocks and the likes that are outdoors too.Try it,you'll like it, A can goes a LONG way. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Paul Girouard]

Na don't need that much protection . My job site saw has a aluminum top ,8" Makita , and my shop Grizzly top and other tools stay good for at least a month with heavy use with just the wax treatment. Hows the Hurricane treating ya ?? We got a kid in FT Meyers looks like the eye just past over there a hour or so ago , from the site the wife is looking at . Hope all is well for ya . HTBH PEG Boeshield

[pipefitter]

Hurricane bands keep passing with some nasty winds. Just enough to keep me from sanding the boat.All is well though.I am an advocate of old school ideas such as plain old wax,etc. Never gave the "Boeshield" a chance until I see now how good the CI tabletop on the Unisaw at work still looks. No sanding/scraping required anymore. I don't know about y'all but anymore I try to avoid sanding as much as possible.Any surface contamination wipes off with a rag. Go ahead,use the wax as it works for you. But if anyone wants to stop scraping their tools it doesn't hurt to try new things?If Boeing has their name on it,can't be all bad,right?
On the other hand,the boss went crazy with the stuff. Do NOT use it on quick grip clamps because they will be too slippery to clamp tightly. I had to use wet/dry with naptha to get the stuff off. Light film of air tool oil seems to work the best for those. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 07-09-2005, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: pipefitter ]

[Gerald]

I have quite a few square meters of wooden bench tops and cast iron tables in my shop. I heat bees wax mixed with turpentine until it smokes and apply to cast iron surfaces and bench tops.
Gerald

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

I ended up with some similiar stains from pipes dripping in VERY humid weather. I just steel wooled em with oil.

[Brad Lustig]

Can't remember where I learned this technique but it works great.

First use a green 3M scotchbrite pad and WD40 with a palm sander. Simply spray the surface down with WD40, set the scotchbrite on the cast iron and use the palm sander on top of that. You can use an orbital sander but it gets a little messy.

Second, spray the whole surface with Simple Green and clean up really good. Get all of that WD-40 off so it doesn't contaminate any wood to come in contact later.

Next, coat the whole surface with Minwax paste wax. Petroleum products can contaminate wood later on, I've heard. Of course, can't be any worse than dog pee. Don't know what you typically use your saw for other than a doggie toilet so petroleum products may be fine on it

[guillemot]

Thanks everyone for your suggestion (even the dog breeding offer). I'm going to give the scotchbrite with WD40 method a go. Then I'll follow that up with a coat of wax or motor oil as Bob suggested.

Katherine - thankfully, there's almost no carpet in the whole house, just one room. The rest is all wood and ceramic tile. With two exceptionally hairy/shedding black dogs, I just couldn't do it any other way!

Here's my other dirt-lover, Toby. This was him helping put up a fence in the back yard a couple weeks ago:

[nedL]

As Dave says, Johnson's paste wax. I use that on all my stuff. Doesn't wear off or transfer to the wood like oil.

[ 07-11-2005, 07:34 AM: Message edited by: nedL ]

[David W Pratt]

Had a shop in an old, unheated barn and everything rusted even though dry. Finally thought, "uric acid". A couple of pounds of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) thrown around helped a lot.
Good luck.

[forrest]

220 on the orbital and a nice coat of Butcher's Bowling Alley wax.

[Norske3]

....and maybe caulk your overhead seams.