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Thread: H28 mini milestone

  1. #1
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    Default H28 mini milestone

    It's been raining here for the last 3 days so have been working out some frustrations on my (until yesterday) yet to be started H28 restoration.

    I'm quite pleased with myself now to have completely stripped out the interior so that I can see what I have to work with and start planning the rebuild layout. The decks/coachhouse and cockpit are yet to be completely removed so that I can start from scratch with a bare hull but it still feels like a good start and everything looks in pretty good shape so far.

    I've also found that a lot of the furniture framing is actually huon pine. I had suspected there was some in there and after taking a few pieces down to a shipwright who is restoring another huon pine vessel close by I've been able to have it confirmed, so a bit of a bonus there.

    I'd post some pic's but I still haven't been able to get a handle on that yet
    cheers
    Greg
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  3. #3
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    sorry - that didn't look riight either - any tips? (polite ones!!)
    cheers
    Greg
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  4. #4
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone



    That what you're after?

    Adam

  5. #5
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    yes but how did you manage that?
    thanks
    Greg
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  6. #6
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    [eye emme gee]URL of your photo[/eye emme gee]

    Where eye=I
    emme=M
    gee=G
    Experience is a harsh teacher. First it gives the test, then follows the lesson.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  8. #8
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    what the #$%& am I doing wrong here with posting images? I've tried using the instructions in the FAQ, I've had a look at previous image posting advice via the "search" facility (using the little mountain icon and deleting anything after jpg) and I'm still stuffing it up. And sorry Oscarvan your advice was just a little too obscure??
    The answer must something painfully simple and obvious?
    Help anyone?
    cheers
    Greg
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  9. #9
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone



    Never mind - tenacity (or belligerence) has won the day

    Anyway- here's the stripped out interior - a bit odd that a few of the forward floors are set back from the frames about 2". This doesn't seem to have been a problem since 1967 but I'm thinking of pulling up the floors to check the bolts and for any soft wood where they seem to still be a bit damp so I could remedy this if anyone thinks it advisable (or add extra floors?) for further longevity.

    I'm also thinking about shaving off about 1" from the bottoms to allow me to remove any soft wood and scribe them more neatly to the hull (some are a bit of a rough fit) and possibly also shape/shave the tops down in the middle where the cabin soles will sit (leave the sides high where they'll be under the bunks). This last for aesthetics and to give a little more head room when I rebuild the cabin top more in keeping with the original H28 per an earlier suggestion from Jay.

    At the moment the floors are about 8 1/2" deep and about 2" thick so they seem reasonably substantial compared to some of the other H28's that I've looked at about the area. However without yet acquiring the plans to see what was originally specified I'd be interested in anyones opinion re taking them down to about 6" x 2" essentially for the sake of lowering the cabin sole.

    cheers
    Greg
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  10. #10
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    It's not your doing Greg, looks like WB have blacklisted PhotoBucket links for some reason.
    Regards, Mark aka "Banjo"
    http://banjosbackyard.blogspot.com

  11. #11
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    Hi Banjo, I kept trawling through the posts on images via the search function and found one by Paladin wher the Bigfella came up with the answer:

    http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulleti...posting+photos
    "With Photobucket, just click on the words IMG code associated with the photo in your album, come back to this window and go rightclick <paste> and, Bob's yer uncle. No need for clicking on image controls or anything. Picture doesn't show until you hit <Post Quick Reply>"

    very frustrating but now that I've got it sorted I'll probably give everyone the complete #&%$s with posting photos.

    Meanwhile though - that Sweet Pea is looking the goods, I've been having a look at your web site off and on. I have a Hartley TS16 which is somewhat similar - lots of fun, so I'm pretty sweet on the Sweet Pea as well.

    cheers
    Greg
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  12. #12
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    One more pic - just 'cause I can!!!

    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  13. #13
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    Quote Originally Posted by Banjo View Post
    It's not your doing Greg, looks like WB have blacklisted PhotoBucket links for some reason.
    Doh! Silly me.... I am at work so of course I cant see photobucket, it's filtered through our Internet provider for the school.

    Ahh great life the "Public Service"

    Oh thanks for the interest in my humble little project mate.
    Ya know that's why I chose to build this one, so I can eat Hartleys for breakfast ;p.. Nar I was real close to building a new TS18 but then spotted JW's Sweet Pea and had one of those moments when ya just know when ya gut feeling is spot on.

    Keep thos piccies comming mate, we love piccies in here.
    Regards, Mark aka "Banjo"
    http://banjosbackyard.blogspot.com

  14. #14
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    I'd think twice about pulling up the floors unless you spot some real signs of rot. "Don't fix what ain't broke" and all that. It's easy to get carried away with dismantling, harder to replace what you've taken apart. If the floors have worked OK since the 60's, then there's a good chance that the builders knew what was required as far as fit, number, and placement goes. You could shave a bit off the tops in place, if you've a mind.

    Have a good poke around with an icepick and if you don't find any softness, leave it alone.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    Ditto what Jim said. Looks like you're making good progress, but it will take a lot of work to get it back together, so don't do anything you don't have to.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    The H28s built in the far East that had iron ballast also had galvanized iron floor bolts. These often do have a tendency to rust through at the junction of the floor and fore foot and other keel components. Checking can be done with a hammer tap. If the bolt goes "ting" as opposed to "thunk" it is, most likely ok. When in doubt, check one out!
    Jay

  17. #17
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    Thanks guys,

    Jay, the floor bolts appear to be copper (no ring when tapping them) whilst the keel bolts to be stainless steel. I haven't attempted to remove any as yet (still only playing boats on Sundays at the moment).

    What do you think about the idea of lowering the floor profiles by about 2" to about 6"-6 1/2" to lower the cabin sole and clean up their fit to the hull -leaving them shaped up the sides so that they don't loose their width outboard? Also any concerns with the forward floors sitting off the frames? There are 2 that sit completely off from top to bottom (@2") three others appear off in the photo but are against the frames at their base and about 1" off at the tops.

    Also does "Bright Star" have a wooden engine bed or is it as described by LFH in angle iron or pipe? My nice solid wooden engine bed has about enough room for my wife to get her dainty little arm in to open the sea cock but there's no way I'd ever be able to clean the strum box (I tried before I first ever started her up and in the end had to just cross my fingers - which I'm not much into at sea).

    Many thanks - bye the way Jay, your mail box must be full - I tried dropping you a message a couple of days ago (but I got a message saying that you are just in such popular demand that there wasn't room for mine.)

    cheers
    Greg
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  18. #18
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    Hi Greg,
    Sounds like your floor bolts are just fine. Floors do not always fay perfectly to the frames. Can you detect fore and aft fastenings that tie the frames to them? Often the garboard will be fastened into the end grain of the floors as well as the frames, making the attachment stronger. Check your floor height against Herreshoff's Plans. He designed the boat as light as he dared and there is a considerable amount of torque that is levered in that area. I would be concerned about weakening anything there unless you are using natural grown or cast bronze floors! "Bright Stars" engine bearers are angle iron.
    I cleared out my extra mail today so you should be able to post there again.
    Fair Winds,
    Jay
    Last edited by Jay Greer; 02-05-2008 at 09:20 PM.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    Thanks Jay,

    I haven't yet bought the plans from Mystic (it's a house/budget/wife/promise thing) so my apologies about being rather cheeky in capitlising on your wealth of knowledge on all things H28. (I thought the floors may be just another cost free thing I could play with on my Sunday off until the house is finished.)

    I'll start scraping away some paint this weekend to see what other fastenings might be holding the floors to the frames.

    BTW, I saw another H28 yesterday in Brisbane with the original coach roof design like "Bright Star", the first that I've seen along this line in Oz. I wasn't able to get close enough to it for a good look nor to see its name but what I could see did look very nice. I'm hoping to head back this weekend to try and get a closer look.

    Any chance of a pic' of your engine bed set up? I won't be doing anything much until I get the plans (and possibly buy a new engine) but I'd be interested to see how different it is to what I have.

    cheers
    Greg
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  20. #20
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    Good work Larks! For what it is worth, Starduster's engine sits on angle iron as well. I can try to find some pictures of the setup if you are interested. Access to the top of the Atomic 4 is easy. The sides and bottom are a pain in the rear.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    Thanks Mike,
    I certainly would appreciate any photos that you can come up with. How's Starduster coming along - have you been out since Christmas? (and how's that H28 web site idea looking??)

    Also Jay/Mike - should there be a hull number somewhere for H28's and if so is there a traditional location? Any idea whether there is a registry for the design or did it become just a free for all?

    cheers
    Greg
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  22. #22
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    I spoke too soon. I thought I had some pics of the engine bed when we had the engine out. I'll have to ask my brother to see if he has any.

    Starduster has a nameplate from Far East Yachts in the cabin. The hull number is also engraved in a structural member above the v-birth. Both are in plain view.

    We haven't had her out since those pictures were taken. The whole month of January was a soggy, rainy mess here in Northern California.
    Mike
    Last edited by banjoman; 02-06-2008 at 01:22 AM.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    I have an H28 and I just finished stripping out the interior and the engine in order to expose the structure. The planking and most of the structure (what I can see) looks pretty good so far, except for the frames. I have many broken frames to repair and I'm planning to do the repairs in place, that is without sistering up and punching a bunch of new holes in the planks. I have spent many weeks massing the materials and mastering the different repair techniques. The haulout is scheduled for February 16th.

    In reference to some of your earlier questions:
    1) None of the frames in my boat are set back from the floors.
    2) My engine was set on a stack of logs but it ain't goin back that way. It was really done badly.
    3) I have a data plate attached to the deck structure just forward of the mast. It has a hull number(?) and a weight but no info on the builder. I would really be stoked if I can somehow track down the builder.

    It was once named Star Bound but it was changed to Sona Maraudh about 8 years ago. It's been in northern California for some time- does anybody know this boat?

  24. #24
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    Don't know the boat but the name sure is nice. Good luck on the reframe.
    Jay

  25. #25
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    Hey LB - welcome to the club.........Keep us up to speed with some photos and progress. I'm interested to know what your hull planking is and also what you plan for the new engine bed? I take it you are doing a full interior refit - what is your deck profile like - the original single level design or a stepped coachhouse?
    cheers
    Greg
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  26. #26
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    Thanks for the welcome!
    Photos will follow but it may be a while- I'm still recovering from one of those upload sessions that makes you want to smash something before it's over.
    This boat has mahogany planking, teak deck (over plywood) and white oak frames. It has a wooden mast and boom. All the fittings and rigging are just like those detailed in 'Practical Cruising Designs' except not in a ketch rig. This is a sloop rigged version and it has a boomkin arrangement which I haven't seen in any plans or descriptions. It has monel keel bolts and bronze fasteners throughout.
    The interior is still in good shape and I can reach most of the frame repairs with most of it still in place.
    The cabin house is the stepped up dog house style and it will stay that way for now. The hull, rig and powerplant are priorities right now. Besides I'm 6 foot 4 and I need the headroom.
    I'm leaning towards a welded steel truss type of engine mount.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    L. Francis did design a sloop rig for the H28. This rig incorporated a set of jumper struts but I do not recall it having been set up with a boomkin. He also designed a set of running backs that could be used both for the sloop and the ketch rig. In my opinion, the running backs greatly improve the up wind performance of both versions.

    I have sailed extensively on H28's that were both set up with either the raised dog house or the low deck house design and must say that I do prefer the lower deck house as it affords a clear view ahead when steering both under power or sail. "Bright Star" is set up with the origional low deck house and I find it no problem to move about in the cabin, even though, I am nearly six feet in height.
    Jay

  28. #28
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    I found plans for the sloop rigged H-28 at the Ships Plans Library, Mystic Seaport. One drawing even has "..backstay attachment for the sloop rigged H-28" in the title. A set will be ordered at first opportunity.

    For looks I would prefer the low cabin roof as originally drawn by LFH. Good forward visibility is also very high on the list. If future wood repairs call for major cabin rework then I would consider a change but for now the hull repairs are a priority.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    Certainly, it is not beyond the scope of the home boat builder to make their own backstay tangs as per the Herreshoff plans. If you wish to make your own, I can walk you through it as I just made up a set for "Bright Star". It will save you a considerable expense.
    Jay

  30. #30
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    I meant to say "a set of plans will be ordered at first opportunity". Once the plans have been compared to my current setup then we'll see about making parts. I appreciate and respect the advice and guidance of those who have been there before. Thanks-

  31. #31
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    This is a test of the procedure spelled out by Thorpe under the first "extreme boatbuilding" string, dated 2-9-08 4:22 AM. This jpg is/was the #1 engine on a Boeing 747. It was chosen at random for this test.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    This is the second test using the same image.


  33. #33
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    Now I have a working procedure- Thanks Thorpe!

    Reframe pictures to follow.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    Larks,

    Here are some very unglamorous pictures of Starduster's engine bed. These were obviously taken right after the engine was pulled and before we cleaned up and painted. I have higher resolution pictures if you would like them.




  35. #35
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    Default Re: H28 mini milestone

    Thanks Banjoman,

    I take it from the pics that your engine sits completely under the cockpit and is quite well down into the bilge? Mine seems to come further forward into the saloon higher. Is yours an offset prop? I can't see a stern tube in the photos. It seems that the builder of mine has defied much of the Herreshoff advice including centring the stern tube.

    I do plan to replace the Volvo Penta (budget pending) and rebuild the engine bed to allow access to the strum box so may well rebuild the entire set up including locating the stern tube where it should be and filling the huge propellor cut out in the rudder.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

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