Yangtze Pelican

[kenjamin]

Captain Short's Pelican design married the dory hull with the sampan and created a small craft uniquely suited for the nasty chop that can be San Francisco Bay. It's popularity has long legs and is still running strong today. With the Yangtze Pelican we have a craft that is plenty unique but never gained the popularity of its 12' little brother or even the bigger brother, the Great Pelican. In fact, there doesn't seem to be any in existence, except for maybe an aluminum one that has somehow disappeared. When I look at the Yangtze Pelican my imagination goes wild and it comes to life in my mind in such a fun way that I'd like to kick some ideas around for the design in case anyone is interested.



The first thing I did was contact Mrs. Muriel Short of San Franciso Pelican Sailboats to see if she had any objections to me stepping my experimental, funky, bird-wing masts to the Yangtze. She gave me her blessings on the project and I ordered the plans and hope to have them here this week or next. For those of you unfamiliar with my bird-wing mast design, here is a picture of my Caledonia Yawl, Xena, sailing early Sunday morning, at the WoodenBoat Mystic Seaport show, July 1, 2007.



Xena is set up for fishing with the idea that, with the mast stored completely out of the way, we can fish top water plugs for speckeled trout on the salt water flats of my home waters and then when the wind kicks up and ruins that kind of fishing, we can step the mast and troll for mackerel under sail. Xena also has a special waterproof hatch for the insertion of a 4HP Yamaha in the middle of the boat inside the rather large live well. The hatch can be sealed and pumped dry for sailing, rowing or storing the motor. I had some great help designing the Lexan hatch from an engineer at the FSU Physics Department. I owe him and his son several fishing trips. My hope is that I could use both Xena's sailing rig and my outboard motor on the Yangtze. With the Yangtze the masts would be stepped at launch and stay there but I think I like the stark contrast of the generous curvature of the masts with the boxy superstructure of the Yangtze.

The 1/2" Lexan port worked so well on Xena that I'd like to do something similar for the Yangtze. I hope you guys are sitting down when you read this but wouldn't it be neat if a boat had a pram bow with a window in it? I know it sounds crazy but wouldn't it be fun to be able see straight ahead at the waterline? My engineer friend figured out a way to make the hatch exactly in line with the exterior of the hull and it is very well fastened.

Another design element for the Yangtze would be to have single 7' bunks on either side of the centerboard underneath the decking. I'm not going to be able to talk my wife into taking any adventuresome trips in the Yangtze. It's most likely going to be a fishing buddy or such so I want my own separate bunk space. These bunks could also be used as tunnels connecting the aft cabin with the forward cabin so no matter what the weather one would have full run of the boat (if you didn't mind doing a little crawling).

What I like most about the Yangtze is that it is basically a big cork with no place for water to get in if you didn't want it to. With very strong buoyant masts with generous curvature, it is pretty unlikely for the Yangtze to go turtle up and it can't swamp because there's nowhere for the water to collect. With a thick 3/4" ply botttom one could screw lead right to the floor (under the bunks) greatly increasing self-righting ability.

The other thing that I've thought about doing is twin rudders. This would allow both the outboard motor and the mizzen mast to be on centerline and give you a workable rudder if one failed. The stink-pot could live out of sight in the aft cabin and be vented straight out the top with a sealed off plywood duct. The Captain's seat could be on the center leading edge of the aft cabin. It would be a scooped out, box shaped, hinged space and it could double as a hatch to the aft cabin. From there, you could run the entire show. Another thing would be to do something about where the crew would sit. If one were to use two of those nylon webbing tailgates that small pickup trucks use sometimes instead of metal tailgates, they could be used to keep your crew safely on board and yet provide freedom to let their legs dangle over the sides. Also those nylon webbing tailgates might also make good swim ladders if loosed at the top, secured at the bottom and allowed to dangle downward to the waterline.

Anyway, these are some ideas I'm knocking around for my next boat and I wondered what you all might think of them.

[JimD]

A few ideas of my own: The sleeping berths could be on the cabin sole, half in the cabin and half under the cockpit seats. The cabin would have fold down seating hinged to the cabin sides - down for using the cabin and up for sleeping on the sole.

Tiller steering is a problem with an aft cabin. Either the tiller runs through a slot in the back of the cabin and the boat is sailed from inside the cabin or the tiller runs all the way over the top of the cabin as it does in the illustration. Wheel steering to the cockpit would be a solution but you lose the simplicity of a tiller and you still have to rig a wheel steering system to a transom hung rudder. I believe there are grotesquely expensive kits for doing this but likely we'd jury rig it ourselves.

Another arrangement would be a sleeping only cabin in the forward seven or eight feet, a cockpit of about four feet in the middle, and a tall aft cabin with bench seating, steering, storage, engine.

I would keep to one sail, no mizzen. A big aft cabin presents enough problems without needing access to a mizzen.

[kenjamin]

The thing I like best about the Yangtze is the monocoque construction that the superstructure provides. The decking along with holed-out ply frames or bulkheads could yield an unusally strong build. I'm thinking of a double layer of 3/8" fir ply for the bottom, single layer 3/8" fir for the sides and frames and 1/4" decking where possible with all exterior surfaces getting a light epoxy and glass coating for the base coat of my favorite Kirby paints. I also want to use as much recycled wood from shipping pallets as possible especially for bracing the thin decking. With all the epoxy that would go into her, I'm not going to think of it as a "green" build but since I want to glass everthing anyway, it might as well be fir underneath. Fir is a heck of a lot easier to get a hold of around here and it glues just fine. There will be a double run of white oak to protect the bottom finish and so she'll sit flat grounded with the tide out.

The mizzen may be a bit of a pain to deal with but it sure comes in handy when you want to park in open water and deal with other stuff like reefing or picnicing or fishing. It also provides another end support for a canopy sunshade for midship. Also my sailing rig responds well to head sails set on a bowsprit and I may need the mizzen to balance the helm. I don't expect my version of the Yangtze Pelican to be any speed demon but she won't be a slug either.

[JimD]

Yes, plywood boats with decks and cabins all glued up are very strong structures. I already have one but need one a bit bigger. And I hear you about the mizzen but with a junk rig reefing is so easy. No reef points to tie off, etc. In lieu of a mizzen I would likely go for a simple flat cut steadying sail that would only be bent for those times when its useful to stay pointed into the wind such as while at anchor.

[kenjamin]

Hey Jim,

I'm enjoying the discussion. The junk rig is certainly a good one for cruising but I'm looking for a little better performance especially to windward. If I can keep someone else busy with the headsails, I think I'll enjoy their added kick. If for some reason I have to solo then I'll be glad there's a mizzen to hold everything under control for me from time to time. Maybe a windup drum on the mizzen mast could be made to wind in or wind out the flat mizzen sail from the captain's seat (a similar arrangement to Matt Laydon's mains'l on Paradox) only the windup drum could be part of the base of the mizzen mast itself. With a line to the clew of the mizzen (again running to the captain's seat) it seems like one could roll up or deploy the mizzen from the remote locatiion. I think the one thing that hasn't been explored much by builders is low friction pivots for free standing masts. With the right bearing surfaces, striking or deploying the mizzen could be as smooth as glass and done from a remote location like the captain's seat.

[JimD]

Here's an interesting article at Duckworks for making a junk sail that supposedly points quite well. Cambered panels and a gurney flap on the leech. http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/...krig/index.htm

[kenjamin]

Ahhh, yes! The old polytarp days when I was younger (although not much younger). I'm afraid I have become spoiled by computer cut dacron sail panels and masts with low wind drag.

[kenjamin]

Received the plans for the Yangtze Pelican Thursday. They were interesting in that there was not many dimensions listed on what was called the Yangtze additional page and to my eye they do not conform exactly to the famous watercolor rendition in Sokolow's Book.



Oh well, it wasn't like I would build exactly to plan anyway. I do want to faithfully render my Yangtze to look like the version in the watercolor book illustration and the good news is that Muriel Short has promised to send me a high resolution print of the illustration. I can scan that and play with it in Adobe Illustrator, a high powered drawing program, and find out most all of what I need to know.

I took my wife to a very nice restaurant tonight and broke the news about this new boat I want to build. She didn't seem at all surprised and I was encouraged by her good mood. I described the boat as a cabin cruiser because she didn't know what a "junk" was. I don't think she needs to know right now that no one's ever built one and that it is likely to have minimal resale value if I ever sell it. She just wanted to make sure I was done on the Caledonia Yawl before I start on something else. She also liked the idea that I may be able to use all the sails, masts, and motor from the CY. All in all it went surprisingly well. Thank God for wine and fried eggplant!

[JimD]

... Thank God for wine and fried eggplant!

Glad to hear she took it well.

[paladin]

I think only one Yangtze was built, and was not exactly like the illustration..........and the "plans" were drawn after the fact.......
I have had discussions with a few builders that attempted to follow the plans and ended up "sorta doing their own thing"......If you're going to build a Pelican, they don't supply traditional drawings, but basically drawings for amateurs to assemble precisely cut parts from their drawings.

[JimD]

I think the Yangzee as shown in the drawing is more than a bit clumsy and amateurish. More or less just an idea as to how it might look. I would think most builders would want to work up their own final product.

[kenjamin]

Jim, I hear what your saying but I guess that's what I like about it. It's a very different looking boat. Those boxy cabins do three things for me. They yield a lot of space for micro cruising and pretty much promise the boat won't get caught upsidedown. The other thing they do is complete the monocoque construction yielding a very strong build. It's no Caledonia Yawl in the looks department but the Yangtze could be a very strong coastal cruiser with lots of space for a boat that can be built in a twenty foot garage. And it can go into very thin water for great exploring. Bottom line is that she is different enough to do a few things better than most other boats her length. And you can't swamp her. That space between the two cabins facinates me. I think there is a great opportunity in that space for a tent with netting side walls and storm flaps.

[JimD]

She likely won't go over much farther than 90 degrees but on the other hand that centerboard won't provide much leverage to bring her up right so she might be fairly happy to just lay on her side indefinitely. Hard to say. As for the boxiness, any boat can look sharp if you put some craftsmanship and care into it, no matter what the shape.

[kenjamin]

Seems like a guy could melt some lead down or cut some 25 lb. bricks in half to lay a thin layer of lead at the lowest part of her bottom. Also a good place for canned goods storage. In my plan for her, there could be storage space for heavy stuff under the bunks midship. There's also some flare to her sides that will help keep her from going on over. With the yawl rig or with the junk rig, it's easier to reef, I think, so you just do it before going over becomes a likely possibility. You have to admit it's a great boat for a Junk Junkie.

[JimD]

Mine would have big windows all around in the aft cabin and would be sailed from there. That tiller over the top looks like trouble one way or another.

[kenjamin]

I like twin rudders over the top with the mizzen and the motor centered on the boat with the captain perched up high on the leading edge of the aft cabin in a scooped out little cubby there.

[JimD]

With steering like a small catamaran? I dunno about perching the helmsman up too high. This is still a small, light boat and its starting to sound very top heavy.

[kenjamin]

So that the captain is seated in a scooped out box section space (the box open at the front and top) in the leading edge of the aft cabin with his eyes six or so inches above the aft cabin roof. Catamarran stick steering would be good if it were long enough so that the cross bar is well in front of the captain with maybe a short bar coming back to the captain fixed in the middle of the cross bar. I know it sounds complicated but no more so than the average cat. Although I bet homemade wheel steering would be a hoot!

The other thing I've been thinking about doing is building the mother of all centerboards out of three layers of white oak (available in Coonbottom, Florida). The thing that amazes me is that some very efficent NACA cross sections are very fat in their maximum chord length so why not put some of the new epoxy, that's supposed to be better for oily wood, to the test. Gluing up three layers of 1" oak with pockets in the inside layer for lead would yield a heck of durable, masssive, blank from which to shape a centerboard with a 4&1/2" grinder. Some routed out guide cuts could keep the guy shaping the thing from messing up too much.

[JimD]

Got a link to info on 'very efficient very flat' naca foils? Can't say I've heard much about that. I suppose the mother of all centerboards wouldn't hurt but I wonder if it would really be worth all the effort. I don't see how this boat is going to be a very good sailer. Not with all that superstructure. I'd be inclined to make the cb out of steel plate to lower the center of gravity.

[Garth Jones]

Which of the Pelicans (in terms of length) were you thinking of? An 18' boat? I'm just wondering how much volume you will have in those cabins (especially with a big centerboard trunk in the middle of the boat), and how long they will be.

Also, I am certainly no naval architect, but I wonder how well these boats will work to windward, especially in a chop that lift the bows up into the wind.

It occurred to me that there is another type of boat that might fit the bills of roomy cabin, shallow draft, one big sail, big cockpit for fishing, buildable in your garage, etc. - an 18' catboat like:



Anyway, just a thought.....

[JimD]

Garth, much of the appeal of the Yangzee is its unorthodox arrangement and appearance with the tall aft cabin and center cockpit. An odd looking boat for someone who wants something out of the ordinary. So a catboat just wouldn't do. The best point of sail for a junk rig is dead down wind although kenjamin doesn't intend to have a junk rig. What I personally like about the cabin aft is that thoeretically it can be big and you can still see forward 'cuz you don't have to look over it. Plenty of sound reasons against aft cabins, too.

[JimD]

Anyone know anything about this boat? Apparently a Poulsbo, photo from the 2003 Port Townsend festival:





Steam power:

[JimD]

I would like a cabin more like this devlin motorsailer, with a junk rig:

[JimD]

Tim Nolan's 16 foot Heather. This is closer to what I have in mind on a small boat. The cabin is tall, airy, and sunlit. Purists can complain about windage, raised centre of gravity, vulernability to large waves, etc, but it has a lot of appeal for protected waters in a rainy climate. It was designed for the PNW:

Wooden Boat Guide - Boat Details


Heather
In 1973 I designed Heather for my own personal needs. Although her design started out as a 60 ft canoe ketch, I ultimately became intrigued with the challenge of creating a compact yet fully-appointed cruiser.
Heather is purposefully designed for year round cruising in the Northwest. Her pilot house is located aft, dry and comfortable but not blocking the view from the center cockpit.
Steering wheels are mounted both inside and outside the forward-facing pilot house door, which opens inward to avoid snagging a sheet. The wheels are active with the door in any position, via a system of pulleys and cables leading through the hinge axis.
Twin lead fin keels allow the boat to sit upright in a grounding, while allowing a favorable placement of the engine and propeller shaft on centerline. Her tall fractional sloop rig has no backstay, jumpers, spreaders, nor forward lowers, and it bends to control the draft of the mainsail. While Heather is weatherly and easy to sail, her most endearing features are detail and finish in the traditional style. Heather cruised Desolation Sound in 1983, and remains active in my family fleet of boats. Port Townsend, WA
NameHeatherLaunched1973DesignerTim NolanBuilderTim NolanLOA16'Beam6'-4"Draft34"RigMotorsailer 3/4 rig sloopConstructionMahogany planking, yellow cedar and oak framesOwnerTim NolanHome portPort Townsend, WA

NameHeatherLaunched1973DesignerTim NolanBuilderTim NolanLOA16'Beam6'-4"Draft34"RigMotorsailer 3/4 rig sloopConstructionMahogany planking, yellow cedar and oak framesOwnerTim NolanHome portPort Townsend, WA

[kenjamin]

Jim, how about a Swaggie?

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/swaggie/index.htm

Too small?

[JimD]

Jim, how about a Swaggie?

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/swaggie/index.htm

Too small?

Swaggie is a big small boat. Did you see the pictures of Luis's Swaggie with almost his entire family inside? A heavy, bulletproof serious sailer. I would love to head over the horizon in a Swaggie but she's not especially practical for the casual boating Cathy and I do close to home. And Swaggie has no cockpit. Lounging around in the cockpit on a warm summer afternoon is one of life's great simple pleasures.

Edited to add: Also, Swaggie is too much work to build. I'm sticking to sheet plywood.

[Bear's Oil]

...a couple things:

1. Coon Bottom Fla. ?

2. The good ship "gratis" is a good example of not following plans. Looks like he put 'er together backwards.

3. Why not just build the raised deck version with the rear cabin, thats MY dream! If you ever want an elevated command post, just put a lawn chair on the rear cabin.

[JimD]

Bear's Oil, what's a raised deck version look like? Got a pic?

[Bear's Oil]

Jim

The raised deck version is just that. The deck is raised above the shear line and becomes the shelter "roof" rather than the top of the cabin. The advantage is added space in the cabin (no side decks). There is a line drawing of the raised deck in the package I received from Mrs. Short.

In my book , Pelican is one of the most practical craft available. Think of an Egret Sharpie with the useless, pointy ends sawed off! Easy to launch by one person, shallow draft but still seaworthy (I pick my weather) and loads of room. The scow configuration is a "roll up your sleeves" kind of craft, born to work and not to be pretty. Regarding "performance"....its a sailboat. I feel no more sense of exhilaration at 5 knots then at 12. Want speed? Buy a Donzi.

I say do the Pelican thing!

[JimD]

So what's it like sailing flat, as in downwind? Specifically, I'm having a hard time believing she doesn't plow that snub nose of hers in the water when she isn't heeled.

[kenjamin]

Jim, I believe that the generous rocker of the bottom tends to keep her pram bow up higher than you would think – much like how the bow of the average sailboat rises up high when an outboard is pushing her from behind. That's not to say that the pram bow never touches water but it does have quite a bit of rake to it so that it doesn't slow progress down very much. It's more of a glancing blow when it hits a wave. I don't know for sure. I'm just guessing from Pelicans in action photos I've seen.

Coonbottom is a very very small town east of Havanna, Florida where a friend of mine lives and has a huge stack of white oak that he milled himself with a portable gasoline powered bandsaw mill. He also has live oak, cherry, and poplar. I could tell you where he lives but save some white oak for me. A private message would work.

[JimD]

I'd still prefer if it stuck up out of the water just a little more. Oh well.

[T. Traddles]

[kenjamin]

In regards to this picture, if that little patch of beige color in the forward seat is somebody's shoulder, then the crew is sure not worried about a little bow plowing going on. If that guy had moved back by the motor, it sure would of helped alot. Evidently some plowing in a Pelican is no big deal. Good to have a buoyant bow in a rough chop.

[Thorne]

Ah, the wonderful downwind ride to the California Delta! Sooooo much fun, but the trip back really isn't.

[JimD]

... Evidently some plowing in a Pelican is no big deal. Good to have a buoyant bow in a rough chop.

If its so bouyant why is it plowing? I don't want a plow.

[kenjamin]

Jim, it appears that the guy in the front of the boat needed to move to the back and was just not interested in improving the trim of the boat. I don't think you should blame that on the design of the boat but rather the laziness of the crew.

[JimD]

Jim, it appears that the guy in the front of the boat needed to move to the back and was just not interested in improving the trim of the boat. I don't think you should blame that on the design of the boat but rather the laziness of the crew.

All the same, why not make her a foot longer and keep that forward transom out of the water?

[kenjamin]

Jim, the plowing discussion revolves around a picture of the 12' version of the Pelican (and with a crew member out of favorable position for proper boat trim). I'm pretty sure the 16' and 18' hulls are an entirely different animal.

I received a beautiful color print from Sokoloff's book from Mrs. Muriel Short but it is copyrighted 1981 by Valentin Sokoloff. Do you know the rules for posting copyrighted images? I would love to scan it and post it.

[JimD]

I doubt if anyone is going to sue you if you post it. In fact I would bet on it. Not like you're trying to make money off someone else's work. Just don't put it on a calendar and start selling them for Christmas, eh?

[kenjamin]

How about I scan it and send it to you and you post it? Maybe we would end up in the same jail cell and could talk boats. I looked it up on the web and anything copyrighted after 1978 is protected for as long as the author is alive and 70 years after that. If Sokoloff is still alive, we could probably get his permission. I bet Muriel Short would know his status. Not much information about him except for his book which by the way I ordered today used on Amazon. The print does show a little more detail. For one thing, those are sculling oars, not rowing oars on each side of the boat. There are belaying pins mounted on a rack on the rear face of the forward cabin. The mast is set in a pivoting tabernacle.
Access to forward cabin is offset due to the rack for the belaying pins.

[paladin]

That's the reason I stretched the bow about 6-8 inches and followed the natural curve of the chines....to get the bow a little higher....if you look at the Chelaydra drawings, Jim....also you have a little more lift forward from the "V"d bottom...and I am redrawing the chine from midships to about 8 inches higher but keeping the same internal volume forward.

[JimD]

That looks better. Nothing in the mail yet, btw, Chuck.

[kenjamin]

Jim, you can stop broadcasting the address but it will take a few days before I can send you anything.

[JimD]

Jim, you can stop broadcasting the address but it will take a few days before I can send you anything.

Ok

[JimD]

[kenjamin]

Gee Jim, that's a pretty color image of the Yangtze. Where in the world did you get that? I asked Mrs. Short if Mr. Sokoloff is still with us to see if getting permission was a possibility but haven't heard back yet.

In other news, I've purchased Mr. Sokoloff's book, "Ships of China" and "The Junks and Sampans of the Yangtze" by G. R. G. Worcester both of which were out of print and cost a small fortune to order but you can't take it with you. I'm looking forward to receiving them.

I've had an idea that is so unusual that if you didn't think I was crazy before now, you will when I tell you the following: Apart from stepping my bird-wing mast on the Yangtze (which people tell me looks oriental anyways), I've decided to go back to the single rudder and make my version of the Yangtze look as much like the watercolor as possible and as much like a junk as possible. My idea is to approach some of the larger Chinese restaurants in town to see if they would be interested in parking a Chinese junk outside of their restaurants for some high impact publicity. I will offset the mizzen for the yawl rig but that is common practice on junks, I think. The motor will still be inside the aft cabin (and not very visible from outside) but it will also be offset so as not to interfere with the big (mother of all) rudders. The captain's seat will become two seats each one located on the outside forward corners of the aft cabin with the access cabin door centered (better for sailing). I've been having fun thinking of the possibilities including use of the completed boat in advertising.

[JimD]

Ken, if you want to pitch it to Chinese restaurants you'll have to put a traditional junk sail on it. That is really the only thing that anyone will recognize about her as Chinese looking. That and painting some chinese writing symbols in bright red paint on it. Perhaps the menu?

[Thorne]

Paint her red -- a lucky color in Chinese culture.

[kenjamin]

I wish I had a dollar for every person who came up to me at the WoodenBoat/Mystic Seaport Show and told me the rig looked oriental. I think it's the dark sail cloth along with the full battens plus the rounded profile of the sail itself. I was thinking of having the mizzen as a true junk rig so it could be controlled remotely but I want the increased windward ability that I think my bird-wing mast offers for the main. Not that the Yangtze Pelican will ever be a star to windward but I want to help it all I can and of course show off my bird-wing mast as well. The general public will probably not know the difference anyways and just think of all the true sailors that will eat there just so they can tell the owner of the restaurant that the boat outside does not have a true junk rig. It will be a neat boat to anchor in Matanzas Bay in St. Augustine when I visit my sister and her clan there.

Oh, and red for sure! Kind of like Xena at the top of this thread or if you're lazy, see avatar.