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Thread: Displacement Cruiser

  1. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    Rijeka Croatia Europe
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    Default Re: Displacement Cruiser

    Hi everyone,

    This thread is very interesting for having an idea on how fellow yachtsmen think about cruising.

    Let me enter discussion on displacement cruising issue.

    Some decades ago a copy of Juan Baader's book „Motor kreuzer und schnelle Sportboote“ fell into my hands and there I was attracted by a rather small cruising motorboat/motorsailer by the name of Raratonga. The idea is to have a small (30ft loa), full displacement (5,5 ts) low powered (10 hp) two berth cruiser for long, even transoceanic passages (up to 4000 miles).

    Although I have tried to get in touch with mr Baader who passed away two decades ago, I found NO additional information on this boat.

    If there is anyone who has more informations on this boat, please get in touch through my email.

    Regards
    Ivan

  2. #37
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    Montreal
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    Default Re: Displacement Cruiser

    Do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,now!
    J.Lennon

    This boat was built with ten thumbs.No fingers were harmed in anyway.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Displacement Cruiser

    Do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,now!
    J.Lennon

    This boat was built with ten thumbs.No fingers were harmed in anyway.

  4. #39
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    Montreal
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    Default Re: Displacement Cruiser

    Pardon my feeble attempts at posting after much effort on the part of Steve Lewis.....whom I owe a big thank you to!!!!!.....and probably more then one good cold Canadian beer !!!

    The picture he posted earlier shows an earlier stage of build then the one I (miracle of miracles!) just posted, with my builders model and taken from within the cabin to give an idea of how roomy the boat is.
    This is a boat Bolger refers to as an esturary cruiser and one which would respond well to Joshs' first part of his wish list,ie; do the great loop. The boat is clearly NOT an offshore,deep sea, cross-oceans-anytime-anywhere type however, considering what has and does regularly cross over to the Bahamas, I fail to see why this one could not, just so long as the skipper has a good understanding of what is involved and an accurate forcaste.
    Regarding the window area, Bolger has argued that( I'm paraphrasing here),polycarbonates as thick as the hull are actually stronger then the hull and given solid enough frames should reasonably be expected to resists the impact of waves as much as the hull.
    As designed,she is self righting and if built as a 4 season live-a-board, with 2 inch foam insulation everywhere but the bottom, is unsinkable.
    I am not yet finished building her and as such can only hope she lives up to my expectations and the designers promises :-)

    Oh,before I forget, the designer calls for a 4 stroke 50Hp with a big foot.Intended to operate in her lower rpm range for excellent fuel economy,long engine life.The extra Hp being used when bucking strong currents,winds or for a bit more speed...if in a rush:-)
    Happy shopping Josh!

    Peter,eternally grateful for Steves' help!!!!
    Do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,now!
    J.Lennon

    This boat was built with ten thumbs.No fingers were harmed in anyway.

  5. #40
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    Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Displacement Cruiser

    Wow. It does look big inside. Those square sections make it as much an efficiency apartment as a boat.
    As to seaworthiness, I wonder how fellow forumites would compare the 50-60 mile crossing to the Bahamas with running the length of Lake Erie or Lake Ontario, where there are good stretches without a lot of cover. If you're good for the Great Lakes, aren't you good for the Bahamas, too?

  6. #41
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Great Falls, MT
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    99

    Default A new Gartside

    This is a real beauty with some wonderful curves. She probably fits every need well, except ease of build. I've been on one of the original boats that Paul states he modeled his after. It was very sea-kindly in about five vertical feet of tidal rip and wind driven Cook Inlet waves. The boat was easily driven by a small Perkins.

    http://www.gartsideboats.com/catpow.php#152

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Displacement Cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    Wow. It does look big inside. Those square sections make it as much an efficiency apartment as a boat.
    As to seaworthiness, I wonder how fellow forumites would compare the 50-60 mile crossing to the Bahamas with running the length of Lake Erie or Lake Ontario, where there are good stretches without a lot of cover. If you're good for the Great Lakes, aren't you good for the Bahamas, too?
    She is indeed very roomy(due to the square sections you mention) and has full standing headroom everywhere,including the head and shower. I'm a little over 6 feet for scale in the pictures.The abundent fenestration makes for a less claustrophobic interior.

    You do raise an interesting comparison regarding the Great Lakes.In bad weather,these inland seas are no place to be for small boats or even ships.Remember the details of the storm that took the Edmund Fitzgerald?

    The prudent boater always checks the forcast,then double checks and keeps a sharp eye out while underway. I would imagine that should Josh ever build a boat and do the Great Loop, he will know well by the time he is in a postion to make a Bahama crossing the limit of both his own and his boats abilities along with whether it prudent to cross or not. Confidence in ones knowledge goes a long way toward helping achieve a goal.

    Looking forward to seeing what Josh settles on.

    Peter
    Do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,now!
    J.Lennon

    This boat was built with ten thumbs.No fingers were harmed in anyway.

  8. #43
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
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    Gagetown, New Brunswick, Canada
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    505

    Default Re: Displacement Cruiser

    Peter, I have been running a 25 foot semi-displacement cruiser for the past two seasons, essentially a much modified lobster boat hull with a custom top (the design began with the drawings of a Glen-L 22').

    My main motor is a 50 h.p. Yamaha high thrust outboard, with an 8 h.p 2-stroke as a get-you-home machine. Based on experience I would recommend twin motors of equal power (say 30 h.p. each??), probably fixed and with rudder steering.

    I have found that 400 pounds of internal ballast down low forward nicely offsets the weight of the outboards, and (combined with two large batteries) gives good stability.

    I am getting a reliable 10 MPG (Canadian gallons - US ones are 20% smaller). For serious cruising, you need at least 30 gallons fuel, and much the same water. What with this , other stores and the ballast (so much seems "essential") the actual cruising weight is over 5000 pounds. That means that while economical displacement speed (6 knots) is achieved at some 1800 r.p.m using a 4-blade prop, the top speed is only 9 to 10 m.p.h., and the fuel economy is lost at that speed.

    There is a real trade-off between speed and fuel economy, if a person wants serious comfort and reasonable range, I think. I agree with an earlier poster, go for a longer boat. Its hard to get what you want in a 25 footer.

    Tony.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Displacement Cruiser

    Tony,thanks for some real world experience with the 50Hp bigfoot 4-stroke outboard.Bolger calls for a 9.9 auxilliary as back up for the 50. There is no room(at least not at this stage of construction) to allow for a twin 30 installation,although your suggestion sounds very reasonable.
    Windermere,as designed, is intended for 200 gallons,in twin tanks, plus 12(twelve!) batteries for extended"off the marina grid" cruising.The batteries,at 1890lbs total, serve also as ballast and give her a ballast displacement ratio of over 60%.
    I totally agree that longer is better,as is narrower, for good fuel economy.Windermere comes in at 31'Loa X 8' X 12". Very much in the spirit of MarkVs' designs.
    After 30 odd years of sailing, this will be my first experience with a powerboat. I confess to being spoiled by tillers and outboard rudders for sure footed steering..........woulda liked to have one too on Windermere but that wasn't in the cards:-)

    All the best!

    Peter
    Do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,now!
    J.Lennon

    This boat was built with ten thumbs.No fingers were harmed in anyway.

  10. #45
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    Dec 2000
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    Gagetown, New Brunswick, Canada
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    Default Re: Displacement Cruiser

    Peter, I would recommend fewer batteries and a couple of solar panels if you really want lots of electric power. I have a panel of 86 watts nominal peak capacity, hooked to a large deep cycle battery. That's all we need for "house" purposes (LED lighting, cabin fans, radio, anchor light). The engine alternator charges a completely separate engine/starter battery, which also runs the instruments, navigation lights and communications radio (all of which are only needed when actually under way). The solar panel could easily keep a second battery charged, but I have not needed one so far.

    Unless you are going to have an electric drive, why do you want so much battery capacity? Cloudy climate???


    Tony.

    PS. I see you are in Montreal. Drop in if you are ever in central N.B. If it's summer time, I would be glad to take you out for a trip, and you can steal any and all ideas. That's what I did.
    Last edited by Tonyr; 10-11-2007 at 12:51 PM. Reason: PS

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Displacement Cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonyr View Post
    Peter, I would recommend fewer batteries and a couple of solar panels if you really want lots of electric power.
    Unless you are going to have an electric drive, why do you want so much battery capacity? Cloudy climate???


    Tony.

    PS. I see you are in Montreal. Drop in if you are ever in central N.B. If it's summer time, I would be glad to take you out for a trip, and you can steal any and all ideas. That's what I did.
    Tony,
    The reasons for the big battery bank,according to Bolger are, 1) defacto ballast and 2)allows for serious comfortable live-a-board pleasures such as the occassional use of an expresso machine,micro-wave oven and girlfriends blowdrier via an onboard inverter.He also advocates the use of several solar panels up on the roof and even a wind turbine :-) The root behind it all is to effectively avoid marina$ for as long as possible while out cruising.
    The budget will not allow,for the time being,installing the whole shooting match right now however, so I will most likely do something along the lines you suggest(just two batteries) and use lead ingots in the meantime to make up for the lost ballast.
    My entire family hails from NB, nicely spread out from Edmunston,over to Bathust ,down through to Moncton and anchored in St.John. My summertime youth was spent visiting and vacationing in NB. The finest memories and the nicest folk you'd ever want to meet.....but I guess you already knew that last part :-)
    Thanks for the invite and, let it be known, you're very welcome to drop by for a ride too if you're ever through this way.

    Peter
    Do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,now!
    J.Lennon

    This boat was built with ten thumbs.No fingers were harmed in anyway.

  12. #47
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    Oct 2000
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    Boonville, MO
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    Default Re: Displacement Cruiser

    I haven't responded to this thread sooner because of computer problems. I see no reason why my Mark V 28 cannot be taken to the Bahamas. You may want a backup motor, however. I would try to find a way to have a dinghy that can handle a 9.9 fourstroke and rig a way to take theo motor off a transom bracket and put it on the dinghy without breaking you back.
    I don't see why you need so much battery power. I have been living on the hook for 6 years with only two 115 amp deep cycle and one starting batterie. I have two 50 watt solar panels. I don't have a refrigerator, however. If you built a good ice box refrigerator, you could probably get buy with another 100 watts of solar pannels. the outboard has an 18 amp alternator. You could also get a small honda generator for backup. I had one, and sold it, since I never used it.
    Don't Panic!

  13. #48
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Vermont
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    69

    Default Re: Displacement Cruiser

    It's a foot short at 24', but check out Gartside's design# 143. We launched her last September and are very pleased with everything about her. Interior space is amazing as is her turn of speed (8kts @3100 rpm with a Yanmar 38 hp engine)and sea kindliness. I'd post pics but have never figured out how to do it!

  14. #49
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    Mar 2002
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    Default Re: Displacement Cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by Whiffle English View Post
    It's a foot short at 24', but check out Gartside's design# 143. We launched her last September and are very pleased with everything about her. Interior space is amazing as is her turn of speed (8kts @3100 rpm with a Yanmar 38 hp engine)and sea kindliness. I'd post pics but have never figured out how to do it!
    A lovely design. To post pics first upload them to an image hosting website (or your own or any website) and then copy and paste the pic. Its easy. Would really like to see some photos.


  15. #50
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    Default Re: Displacement Cruiser

    It is indeed a lovely cruiser, as are most of Paul Gartsides designs.I do however have one small bone to pick with the design; Gartside claims this is a good long range cruiser but darnit, I can't see any real practical storage space for things like cloths and food for two. Mind you, the images on his web page are a bit small, so perhaps I missed something :-)

    Belated congrats on your launching! Did you build her too? Pictures of the build?

    Peter
    Do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,now!
    J.Lennon

    This boat was built with ten thumbs.No fingers were harmed in anyway.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Displacement Cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Van View Post
    I don't see why you need so much battery power. I have been living on the hook for 6 years with only two 115 amp deep cycle and one starting batterie. I have two 50 watt solar panels. I don't have a refrigerator, however. If you built a good ice box refrigerator, you could probably get buy with another 100 watts of solar pannels. the outboard has an 18 amp alternator. You could also get a small honda generator for backup. I had one, and sold it, since I never used it.

    Thanks for the details Mark. The reason the designer called for all the batteries goes something like this;the boat needs ballast for self-righting, batteries are heavy AND are good for providing power therefore,let's use 1890lbs of batteries, instead of 1890lbs of straight lead and get the benefit of lots of power to boot :-)

    I am inclined to keep things simpler,along your lines, and make up the difference with lead ingots to keep her ballast displacement ratio the same as prescribed by the designer.

    Would you take your boat to the Bahamas as is or would you make some changes first?

    Peter
    Do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,now!
    J.Lennon

    This boat was built with ten thumbs.No fingers were harmed in anyway.

  17. #52
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    Nov 2016
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    bowser BC Canada
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    5

    Default Re: Displacement Cruiser

    I am building the same boat,
    Is this boat on Vancouver Island?
    I live in Qualicum beach

  18. #53
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
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    bowser BC Canada
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    5

    Default Re: Displacement Cruiser

    32 ft Jolly Rogers,
    I am building this boat,
    Is there any other of these boats on Vancouver Island?

  19. #54
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    Sound Beach, NY
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    Default Re: Displacement Cruiser

    Hi Steve. This thread is ten years old, I suggest you start a new one. Keep us posted on your build.

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