sailing canoe question?

[mr-fixit]

This is a what if question. What if you rigged a canoe hull as a sailboat with a permanent keel, or fin ,and rudder? How would this work ? Would it sail ok or would there be problems?

[johngsandusky]

If properly designed it should sail well. But the greatest advantage of a canoe is it's versatility. Carry on top of a car, launch in inches of water. A keel would change that.

[Brian Palmer]

Look at Herreschoff's Rozinante for an example.

--Brian

[Peter Belenky]

The real question is what you mean by a "canoe hull." Is the idea to find a way to increase the speed or sail-carrying power of a manufactured plastic canoe or to have a sailing yacht with a pointed stern? There is a vast history and literature on these topics.

First, plastic sailing canoes will never be ideal sailboats. Although their wooden prcursors have been sailed for well over a century, their lines are not ideal for either speed or maneuverability. Structurally, they are poorly designed to support the weight and torque of a keel, and the stability contributed by a ballast keel will not be significant until they are well heeled-over, when the danger of swamping would necessitate the modification of decking. I assume you are not talking about a shallow plank keel, which would add weight, contribute little to windward ability, and degrade stability. Wooden, aluminum, and plastic canoes are sailed in several countries with rudders, twin leeboards and either lateen or more advanced bermudian rigs. For greater stability and power to carry sail, removable outriggers can be added. They are awkward but can be detached for cartopping.

Decked canoes evolved in two directions in the late 19th century. One retained the canoe's light weight and narrow beam, acquiring power by a sliding seat to support the helmsman far outboard. These became the lightning-fast international 10-square-meter decked sailing canoe class of today, the IC. The other became a beamy, sturdy sailboat or small cruiser, often with a centerboard dropping through a shoal ballast keel, known as a canoe yawl. As they grew larger, many abandoned the centerboard and evolved into canoe-sterned keel yachts such as L. Francis Herreshoff's Rozinante http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1551734/0
or Albert Strange's Moth II
http://www.albertstrange.org/?page_i...oats%2FOrtegal
and larger relatives.

The attraction of combining a long, light canoe hull with a fin keel led to the development of C. Raymond Hunt's International 110 and 210 and Joel White's Fox Island Class, among others. Canoe yawls as daysailers and small cruisers have been designed more recently by William Garden, Paul Gartside, and Jay Benford. In all of these cases, use of a canoe stern is essentially an aesthetic decision, and the boats could have sailed as well and been built as easily with square sterns.

-Peter Belenky

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

This is a what if question. What if you rigged a canoe hull as a sailboat with a permanent keel, or fin ,and rudder? How would this work ? Would it sail ok or would there be problems?

A canoe can be set up for sail without big time modifications. When done in the usual manner the boat is still capable of it's normal paddling functions.
The sailing package requires a mast step, a mast partner, adjustible leeboards, a rudder plus spars and sail. The leeboard set-up allows you to move the Center of Lateral Resistance around to accommodate various sizes and types of sails. Everything but the mast step is, usually, removable.
Don'r know what grabs you about afixed keel. Most small sailboats have a daggerboard or apivoting centerboard. these are tried and true devices. There are traditional sailboats that rely on a long, shallow, fixed keel. They don't seem to be all that good in some manuevers.

[Ben Fuller]

The Swedish sail real cruising canoes in the old tradition, not the enlarged boats like canoe-yawls and Rozinantes. Their Class D canoe is a ballasted sailing canoe with keel. 17 feet, 10 square meters of sail. It goes good.

[skuthorp]

I've sailed a balanced lug rigged decked Outred Macgreggor for about 7 years. Fast but tender. Some good info here
http://www.ocsg.org.uk/ and here http://intheboatshed.net/category/canoes/
Gavin's site is particularly good, there's been considerable chat on the forum, have a search, and anything by forum member Todd Bradshaw on the subject is first class.
Do you intend to tour with your canoe, compared to walking and ski touring it's luxury, you can pack a few bottles of wine as ballast.

Nice pix from Ricardo here, quite different. http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulleti...ad.php?t=68218

[Fitz]

I just rigged my 18 foot, 1941 Old Town Guide wood and canvas canoe with a sail rig. The rig is composed of antique parts that I have been accumulating and it includes a lateen sail rig, mast step, mast seat (bow), leeboards and a leeboard thwart that they attach to. I steer with a paddle, although rudders were commonly attached to the stem. All of these features are easily removable.

Here is a picture of the rig. I am a total sailing canoe newbie, but I found it surprising easy to sail.

[mr-fixit]

What I am doing is building a RC model sailboat with a canoe hull to see how it works out. Now everyone says "so that's what he's up to". I have a 14' Mohawk canoe that slides through the water so smooth and with very little wake that I got the idea of a RC sailboat with the same hull form. That's why I am asking the question. But I do love to canoe. I would rig the Mohawk with a sail rig , but my wife is a WHITE KNUCKLE SAILOR if you know what I mean. She cant take any motion side to side. So my sailing has come to RC models.

[skuthorp]

My wife too, so I'm building a bolt-on outrigger to calm the motion when she's aboard and also make the Mack somewhat safer for open water and off-shore touring. Duckworks have some good plans.

[Lewisboats]

Here is an easy to make/replace outrigger. Take a piece of 1/2 or 3/4" ply and make a curved bottom. Split a Pool noodle and slip it over the edge then drive a few screws part way in to hold it. repeat until you have the bottom curve covered then bolt to your cross members. (disregard the glare off of the round thing sticking up in the first picture .

[skuthorp]

The rum sounds good! My floats will be built to stow under the side deck of the Mack and double as floatation/storage when not deployed. I wouldn't have thought you'd get enough floatation effect from noodles, but they do come in such lovely garish colors!

[Lewisboats]

Ohlll there is plenty of buoyancy in one of those. I get up and walk around (knee around?) to fiddle with the rig and it is plenty stable to keep from pitching me out.