Blackberry Dory

[Westport Jeff]

I have come across a free set of plans for the 11' Blackberry Dory on JB's Boatyard website.

I plan to use the boat to row and fly fish in local ponds. Depending on how the boat performs I may consider putting it in the Westport River (Mass.)and go with the flow.

This will be my first build. I am a big guy at 6'-2" and 260#. Any thoughts or comments?

My plan for the second boat is to build the San Juan Dory to fish the Westport River. Other possible choice would be the Long Point Skiff.

Thanks in advance for the advice and feedback.

http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com/bl...rev7_04_03.PDF

[JimD]

I have come across a free set of plans for the 11' Blackberry Dory on JB's Boatyard website.

I am a big guy at 6'-2" and 260#. Any thoughts or comments?

http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com/bl...rev7_04_03.PDF

Yeah, sit in the middle.

[wtarzia]

Is the 11 foot length critical? If not, I would say, no. Oneof the biggest mistakes I made long ago was to have built an 11 foot dory. It seemed like a 'friendly length' and more affordable, the worksmanship was traditional and beautiful. But it was 11 feet. I wasn't thinking ahead for (1) the day when someone might want to come with me, such as children, (2) the day I would want to leave the lake and venture to coastal sailing, (3) the day when I would want a hull speed greater than the 3 mph max that a 11 foot dory is likely to provide (you can't make headway against river current + outgoing tide at 3 knots, unless you have a powerful motor and you can plane), and (4) the day when I realized that both beam and length provide stability. Inother words, I outgrew the 11 feet within two years as I gained experience. And, yes, you are a little big for 11 feet. Seems to me 14 feet should be a minimum length for a small boat, storage and transportation not being the limiting factors. -- Wade

[Westport Jeff]

Wade:

Thanks for the feedback. What was the larger boat you built?

[Tom Hunter]

I will back Wade up on several points.

Though she is fairly beamy for 11' it is not a lot of boat.

3 knts is slow, and this is a huge issue if you need to go against a current. Also you will be working hard to get the 3 knots. My boat is 18' and it will cruise along at 4 knots with no effort, and go 5 for extended periods if I push it.

It will work fine for fishing on ponds, alone. If you try to do more you will soon be thinking "I need a different boat."

On the plus side this looks like a quick build, so you could build this and then build a different boat for the river and wider world.

[Thorne]

As is usual in these cases, you need to define your requirements more clearly -- which is more important, standing to fish or rowing at speed? Will you trailer the boat or leave it in the water, or try to cartop it, or?

Most of the time boats used for flyfishing are built wide and stable, often with a brace across the gunwales to lean on while standing and casting. Several of the modern designers have boats for this purpose which get good reviews.

Check out some of the boats by these designers -
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans.htm

Michael Storer posts on these pages frequently, you might ask him for a recommendation. Here is one of his that might work well for the fishing part of your needs -

[rbgarr]

I had a 15' (LOA) dory and used it regularly to row a mile or so to work. Malcolm Brewer 'designed' and built it. See here for pic: http://www.penobscotbayhistory.org/section/show_page/97

We thought one 'just like it only scaled down a foot or so' would make a nice tender for the Tancook Whaler VERNON LANGILLE. I was quite surprised how very much more tender the 10% smaller craft was. A practical lesson in scaling effect.

[BrianY]

there are a million possibilities out there. Are you looking for a rowing - only boat for your first build or do you want to be able to row and use a small outboard?

It sounds to me like a good flat bottom skiff in the 12-14 foot range would suit you nicely, both in terms of ease of construction and suitability for your intended use.

Some rowing - only options:

http://www.cmdboats.com/bayskiff.htm...18552587272530 without the sail rig

http://www.clcboats.com/boats/skiff.php


Some row/motor options:

http://www.cmdboats.com/powerskiff14...18552587272530

http://www.sredmond.com/index_boat.htm See "Bluegill" (without the sail rig)

Ken Swan's "Little Gem" http://www.swanboatdesign.com/index.html

also check out this website for a variety of rowing and row/outboard skiffs: http://bateau.com/categories.php?cat=28

Here's a free plan online for a 14 foot skiff that can be built as a motor skiff or as a rowing skiff: http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/le...kiff/index.htm

I'm sure others will have many more suggestions.

[kenjamin]

Check out the Goat Island Skiff

http://www.storerboatplans.com/GIS/GISplan.html

The plans aren't free but you will find that the plans are a tiny part of the expense of building a boat. Looks like an easy build for the first one.

[John Bell]

Somebody emailed me to alert me of this thread.

Full disclosure: Blackberry is my design.

The traditional Banks Dory - which the Blackberry is modeled after, althoughthe bottom is wider than is traditional - is reputed to be rather unstable unless loaded down with a lot of fish/ballast/bodies. You could go with a Chamberlain dory or its variations if you were really after a high performing row boat that is stable enough to fish from, but then the difficulty of the construction would be greater.

I designed the boat with fishing in mind. I had a narrow bottomed dory that I liked very much, but found the initial stability to be a little too limiting to be comfortable for fishing. The 11'er is quite reassuring in this regard. I did a lot of emprical stability studies in the prototype (i.e. trying to capsize it.) It's a lot stiffer than a Bolger Light Dory.

IMO, the boat has enough stability to be (conservatively) sailed. I know of one builder who put a rig on the boat. I won't draw a rig for it however.

Well over a dozen boats have built with no complaints that I've heard. Here's a photo of a particularly spiffy version from Australia:



I've also drawn a 14' version of this boat that is probably a better boat than the 11'er for about the same materials. I presented this boat in MAIB in November 2005.

Here's a couple of photos of the Colorado prototype:




The 'plans' for either of these boats are free and are offered as my way of giving back to the online community that nurtured me when I was starting out building boats.

[BrianY]

John -

Thanks for the info. From your explanaition and the photos it is apparent that my comment which was based on looking at you plans re: the Banks dory and your design is misleading. I will delete it. Thanks also for making the plans available online.

[Daniel Noyes]

Hi Jeff and all
I'd agree with all of the above, Black Berry looks like a fine little boat, easy to build, store + use; good for fishing in protected waters and traveling at slower speeds.
Generally dories are more able craft the bigger they are. A quick look at old photos will show almost no dories under 16' most in the 17-19' range.

for more free dory plans please see your local librarian and ask for John Gardners "Dory Book"
dory's are incredible boats and have been used for work and pleasure for over 200 yrs!

Daniel Noyes
http://dansdories.googlepages.com

[Thorne]

Great to see more about the design of the Blackberry!

But there is fishing and there is flyfishing. Not all flyfishermen stand to cast, but many do.

If Westport Jeff wants to stand and cast, I suspect he'll want something more stable than the Blackberry -- even at the cost of rowing a lot harder. For sitting and casting, looks like no problem.

[wtarzia]

Wade:

Thanks for the feedback. What was the larger boat you built?

--- Oops, bad wording, sorry: I had the dory-skiff built for me by a traditional dory shop (my "skills" are limited to plywood). I have built a 14 foot proa and am just finishing a 16 foot tacking outrigger (wtarzia.com, click 'boats' and 'photos'), but these don't count toward this discussion as they are different kinds of boats (though I will say their skinny hulls are easily driven in crappy wind, so they reach hull speed with perhaps less effort than a skiff). But I've rowed several other dories rented from the museum-shops at Mystic and Lowells Boat Shop (now a museum-shop struggling to survive, how sad! Somebody please order their boats!): 18 foot swampscott dory, 19 foot banks dory, 17 foot narrow rowing dory, and etc. From these experiences I gained that sense that my 11 footer was a mistake (though a pretty boat, and fine for farting around on if your car will not be towed as soon as the sun sets at the state ramp and you are trying to get back at a hull speed of 3 mph!). (I think a well configured swampscott sailing dory design is the best of all compromises: the Search stops there ;-) -- Wade

[Spokaloo]

You know I built an 11' Summerbreeze that Dave Beede drew up.

I have fished for hours and hours on that boat. Standing to cast, standing to fight the fish, etc. The actual wet waterline is probably in the 8-9' range, and is beamier than the subject boat. I would say any boat that size is going to be tender, and the angler should plan accordingly. I am 6'3 and 200lb, normally fishing for fish that weigh a minimum of 2lbs (northern pikeminnow, smallmouth, largemouth bass).

Id suspect this to be a good boat to fish, esp if you are going to be in slackwater or slow streams. The draft will be ideal, and if you are like me, you will try to troll when you row, which is a 1kt affair to get solid action on your lure. I think the out and back speed is somewhat irrelevant in a sub-2 mile row. Especially if you built the boat yourself and enjoy the outdoors.

E

[Tom Hoffman]

I have been researching dirft boat plans, many seem to be in the 14-17' size. I built a 20' white hall and it seems small with two adults and 2 kids in. This site shows the building of one of their boats. Seems pretty stright forward. I would never buy a kit, I would build from scratch with a plan as a guide line and modify as I go to suit my particulat wants and needs.

Here is the site.

http://www.gregboats.com/pages/driftboats.html