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Thread: Small Reach designs!

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    The size could be dictated by regatta rules.
    Ed Maurer
    Skinny Hull sailing magazinewww.skinnyhull.com
    Florida Fly Fishing Magazine http://FlaFlyFish.com/

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    Practicality; when you get longer than 20 feet or so it becomes much harder to row a boat efficiently with one or two if its not expressly designed to row ( aka leave all that heavy sail stuff on the beach). And there is the second factor of weight. This is not in paved launching ramp land. Rocky beach and a shallow slope. So getting stuff on and off trailers can be a challenge. FWD and experience in driving on that stuff is a necessity. What dictated Harrier's length and indeed what I suspect is a factor in the popularity of outboards in the 17-18 foot range is that this is what will easily fit into most garage based boat houses.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    2009 list is in from Tom!
    2009 SRR Fleet List — Page 1
    Owner and home port
    March 27, 2009
    1 FAR & AWAY 17’8” Nomans Land Boat Tom Jackson, Brooklin, ME
    3 DELIGHT 19’6” Caledonia yawl John Shinaberger, Bradford, PA
    4 SCOUT 21’ Sea Pearl 21 Philip Bacon, Guilford, CT
    5 LITTLE OTTER 19’2” Ness yawl Jeffrey Horbar, Charlotte, VT
    7 no name Washington County Charles Chamberlain, Brunswick, ME
    8 WIZARD 16’8” Coquina Vagn Worm, Old Saybrook, CT
    9 ROSIE B 17 Penobscot 17 David Gilroy, East Granby, CT
    10 GREY LADY 19’6” Caledonia yawl Jon Gibney, Arlington, VA
    11 GANNETT 17’ Atlantic 17 gunning dory Steve Woll, Pembroke, MA
    12 NEWBOAT 19’6” Caledonia yawl Mike Duncan, Annandale, VA
    13 REBECCA ANN 19’6” Caledonia yawl Dale Davenport, Linville, VA
    14 SPEAR 21’ Beachcomber Alpha dory Dan Noyes, Newbury, MA
    15 GOWAN 15’ Daisy dory-skiff Raymond Danforth, Shelburne, NH
    16 no name 17’6” Welsford Pathfinder Tom Williamson, Windsor, VT
    17 RAVEN 17’6” Norseboat Robert Pantel, Portland, ME
    18 DRACO 18’ Gunning dory Richard Geiger, Castro Valley, CA
    19 CARPENTER II 18’ Carpenter Denis Wang, Tilton, NH
    20 OCARINA 18’ Shearwater John Silverio, Lincolnville, ME
    21 LIFE GOAL NO. 9 13’2” Jimmy Skiff Ron Paro, Dover, NH
    22 LEA 15’8” South Jersey Beach Skiff Steve Dwyer, Merrimac, MA
    23 MOOSEBEC REACH BOAT 14’2” Moosebec Reach Boat Fredrick Hayden, China, ME
    24 BELLA BARCA 18’ Kingston lobsterboat Sam Cousins, Easton, PA
    25 HMS VICTORIA 17’ Matinicus double-ender Larry O’Brien, Salisbury, MA
    26 BONNIE SEA 15’10 Kingston lobster boat Nathan Rome, Winchester, MA
    27 PUCK 19’6” Double-ended pulling boat Bob Yorke, Scituate, MA
    28 HERO MOMMY 14’ Small design (Dias) Omay Elphick, Pawtucket, RI
    29 JUNIE JUMP-UP 17’ Penobscot 17 Turner Matthews, Bradenton, FL
    30 JASMINE 19’6” Caledonia yawl Christopher Drouin, Auburn, NH
    31 SNOBBEN 11’7” CLC Passagemaker Erik Linforth, Bethlehem, PA
    32 PEGGY BLISS 18’ Racing dory William Richards, Georgetown, MA
    33 SKYE 18’ Mower dory David McCulloch, Old Lyme, CT
    34 CRICKET 16’2” Stretched Windward 15 Jim Luton, Brooklyn, NY
    35 MOXY 15’ Marsh Cat Roy Hendrickson, Bokeelia, FL
    No. Name LOA Type
    2009 SRR Fleet List — Page 2
    Owner and home port
    March 27, 2009
    36 LILY 19’ Double-ended pulling boat Allen Head, Concord, NH
    37 OCCAM’S RAZOR 16’ Swampscott Dory Malcolm Forbes, Merrimack, NH
    38 BRUCE’S BOAT 20’ Core Sound 20 Ray Frechette, Lewiston, ME
    39 SOUTHERN SKIMMER 22’ EC 22 Graham Byrnes, Vandemere, NC
    40 HOPEFUL OUTLOOK 19’7” Banks dory Sam Manning, Camden, ME
    41 no name Peapod Giffy Full, Brooklin, ME
    43 LITEN KUHLING Εfjordsfaering Ben Fuller, Cushing, ME
    44 no name Delaware ducker Ben Fuller, Cushing, ME
    45 RAN TAN Harrier Antonio Dias, Narragansett, RI
    46 SUNDANCE 2 17’ Sloop Bill Corbett, Castine, ME
    47 TREMOLINO Balancelle d'Espagnole Lance Lee, ,
    48 NED LUDD 19’6” Caledonia yawl Geoff Kerr, Westford, VT
    49 URCHIN 13’ Salisbury Point skiff Wendy Byar, Willingboro, NJ
    50 LANCING MADURA Indonesian Gole'an Lance Lee, ,
    51 EMERSON ALBURY 16’ Abaco bahamas dinghy Wade Smith, North Franklin, CT
    52 ZEPHYR 22’ Sharpie John Rowse, Jamaica Plain, MA
    53 LAPWING 15’8” Cat-ketch, sprit-boomed Tom Lathrup, Oriental, NC
    54 no name 16’ Swampscot Dory David Porter, Brooklin, ME
    55 no name Fusion faering Bruce Elfstrom, East Haddam, CT
    56 no name unknown Bob Wolfertz, Rosemont, NJ
    END

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    The Big boat this year looks to be the Everglages challenge 22' core sound sharpie.
    I'm bringing the A dory at 21' and Scout the Seapearl will be ther again as well (21')
    I am interested to see the Mower dory should be fun.
    A friend of mine is bringing his lincolnville wherry and Bill is bringing Ipswich Bay 18' Peggy Bliss
    The Moosabeck Reach boat will not be the smallest craft this year as there is a little 13' Salisbury pointer signed up to attend.
    Thoughts on performance on the reach?
    Dan
    http://dansdories.googlepages.com

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    What, only six Caledonia Yawls?

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    The Big boat this year looks to be the Everglages challenge 22' core sound sharpie.
    --- The EC22 is a great boat. I helped lift it off its trailer at the EC this year, so I think I earned at least the right to sit in it ;-) Is the Small Reach still doable this year or was there a deadline of some kind? Where can I get info about it? I wouldn't mind trying to bring my wooden 16 foot cat-ketch single outrigger sailing canoe. -- Wade

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    Quote Originally Posted by wtarzia View Post
    --- Is the Small Reach still doable this year or was there a deadline of some kind? Where can I get info about it? -- Wade
    Wade, the application process for this year is now closed. Sorry

    Here are the application dates and the link to more information:
    "We’ll start taking 2009 applications on January 1, by e-mail or mail. Applications must be received no later than March 2, 2009."
    http://www.woodenboat.com/smallreach/

    The link is found on the WoodenBoat website Home page.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paro View Post
    Wade, the application process for this year is now closed. Sorry .
    --- Dang! Thanks for the info. -- Wade

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    Sometimes there are small reach skippers who are able to take on a crew member. If that is something that you would want to do, post your interest here and perhaps someone will have room in their boat.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    Does anyone have info on Zephyr? 22' Sharpie, photos? This could be a quick boat.

    I cant wait to sail the Beachcomber in company with the Mower dory, these boats were designed within a couple miles of each other at essentially the same time, the Mower dory was drawn by a brilliant young yacht designer who went on to design Americas cup challengers, the Alpha by a dory builder at the height of his career relying on a tradition of working dories and "Age of Sail" ideas on what makes a fast boat.

    Wade, like Ron mentions the boat entries are closed, I think the deadline is pretty firm as the Regatta is free. I think reviewing boats and sending out info all spring + summer would take alot of time.
    Crew sign up is open
    If you have an in with the EC 22 give them a call, also Ray Frechett will be there with the Core Sound 20. Any other names you recognize? I already have a potential 6 crew members for the Beachcomber Alpha wich means we will likely take turns.
    Dan
    http://dansdories.googlepages.com
    Last edited by Daniel Noyes; 04-04-2009 at 10:22 AM.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    Hi -- No, I don't have any ins on the EC22, I was merely one of the Everglades Challenge contestants and helped lift his boat off the trailer, since I was eager for any excuse at all to have a look at that starkly efficient and handsome (I won't say beautiful) boat. I will try to remember to keep an eye out for the next one. Besides being around other wooden boat sailing folk, I was specifically interested in watching how some of the quadrilateral ketch-rig people sailed their boats (Coquina, etc.), and also for them to see how I was sailing my own cat-ketch-standing lug outrigger, so that I might learn what I am doing right or wrong. Where I sail out of New Haven, I'm the only with this kind of rig except for the big schooners, which are out of my social class ;-) -- Wade

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    Actually, there is a fee this year. I believe it's to cover insurance for the event. But, at $30/boat, it's still more fun then you can have anywhere else. That works out to $10 per day, making it cheaper than staying home.

    Phil Bacon and "Scout" (Sea Pearl 21)

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    SRR this week!
    hope to get some great video and photos to share.

    Alpha dory is on the trailer and ready to row/sail

    There is a new flotation requirement after 2 capsizes in 2 yrs (07 ducker, 08 Peggy Bliss) and I have done some last munite design changes including 4 inches of foam, floor boards and foam billets under the two middle seats.
    Dan
    http://dansdories.googlepages.com
    Last edited by Daniel Noyes; 07-06-2009 at 09:56 PM.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    I believe the SRR dates have been released. So, it is time to think about boats for next year. I would like to design an SRR boat with the key guidelines:

    --inexpensive and relatively fast to build
    --Stitch & Glue plywood, single chine construction (all 6mm)
    --very lightweight sail and oar capability
    --maximum 5'1" beam, 105 SF lug + a mizzen (so a yawl)
    --rowable by one person, or tandem

    The idea is somebody who wants to join the SRR or bring a new boat but has little time and $ to bring something new, this design would answer that, an SRR skiff. I've sketched some lines, but thought it be fun and good motivation for me to get thoughts here. It'd be nice to have something that is "marketable" for SRR type use, which is along the lines of use by a family for messing about, or use by serious sailers wanting to go have some fun yet be able to row when the wind dies and not cuss the boat.
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    Hi, all—
    We've been looking at August 19-22, but it appears there may be some conflict with that date. This should be settled soon, and I'll post dates here as soon as they're finalized.

    Tom Jackson

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    Quote Originally Posted by Clinton B Chase View Post
    I believe the SRR dates have been released. So, it is time to think about boats for next year. I would like to design an SRR boat with the key guidelines:

    --inexpensive and relatively fast to build
    --Stitch & Glue plywood, single chine construction (all 6mm)
    --very lightweight sail and oar capability
    --maximum 5'1" beam, 105 SF lug + a mizzen (so a yawl)
    --rowable by one person, or tandem

    The idea is somebody who wants to join the SRR or bring a new boat but has little time and $ to bring something new, this design would answer that, an SRR skiff. I've sketched some lines, but thought it be fun and good motivation for me to get thoughts here. It'd be nice to have something that is "marketable" for SRR type use, which is along the lines of use by a family for messing about, or use by serious sailers wanting to go have some fun yet be able to row when the wind dies and not cuss the boat.
    Sharpie type hull?

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    Clint, are you still thinking of the Goat Island Skiff as a starting point for this design? I think it meets most of the criteria as designed. Perhaps move lug rig forward a little and add the mizzen?

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    GIS is good, needs to be longer. I may also be interested in something with a little more piercing effect through chop. If it were built from offsets on a strongback, I'd consider just stretching the Goat Island Skiff. The flat bottom is a nice feature for an SRR boat, which pretty well screws up my idea of a v-bottom S & G hull. The Deblois Street Dory may be built by plans holder #1 by the time of the SRR. That would be cool!

    Here is what I am thinking for the GIS but longer. I think 17' would be great.


    Yes, she'd be fun to have at the SRR. Super easy to beach. Just need room for an extra crew member or two. A way to row tandem would be useful, though not essential to be there and have fun. It isn't a race, right? Something that I think is nifty about the Goat is the Aussie style rudder. The boat is fast, too. We blew by some 420s the other day in a customer's Goat. Drawbacks to the boat at this point: needs a mizzen (check, that we can add), needs a little more room for a 3rd crew member, difficult to row because of single rowing station and the only place for crew is on aft tank top. If others are interested, we might be able to inspire the designer, Michael Storer, to make some changes for us. It'd be inspiring for me too, to have two of these at the SRR.

    Clint
    Last edited by Clinton B Chase; 10-01-2009 at 08:29 PM.
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    The Moosabeck Reach boat will not be the smallest craft this year as there is a little 13' Salisbury pointer signed up to attend.
    There's one smaller still ... a CLC Passagemaker pram dinghy, at 11'7".

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    I wonder if AWOL on the other thread in Designs/Plans would be a candidate for my original thoughts. Looks pretty cool.
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    For those interested in this sort of event (who is'nt?) here's the fleet list for SRR 2010!!!

    1 FAR & AWAY Nomans Land Boat 17’8” Tom Jackson Brooklin ME
    2 DELIGHT Caledonia yawl 19’6” John Shinaberger Bradford PA
    3 SPEAR Beachcomber Alpha dory 21’ (replaced by PEGGY BLISS Ipswich Bay 18') Dan Noyes Newbury MA
    4 LITTLE OTTER Ness yawl 19’2” Jeffrey Horbar Charlotte VT
    5 LEITRIM Amesbury skiff 15’6” Bill McCullom Boxford MA
    6 DOLFIN Whitehall 15’ Norman Otto Sandwich MA
    7 LADY GRACE Core Sound 17 17’ Susan Clark Tilton NH
    8 DRAKE Faering derivative 17’4” Clint Chase Portland ME
    9 GOWAN Daisy dory-skiff 15’ Raymond Danforth Shelburne NH
    10 RED MOLLY Peapod 18’ Paul LaBrie Exeter ME
    11 FRISKY LADY Gaff sloop 15’6” Mike Duncan Annandale VA
    13 BONNIE SEA Kingston lobster boat 15’10” Nathan Rome Winchester MA
    14 GANNETT Atlantic 17 gunning dory 17’ Steve Woll Pembroke MA
    15 SCOUT Sea Pearl 21 21’ Philip Bacon Guilford CT
    16 PUCK Double-ended pulling boat 19’6” Bob Yorke Scituate MA
    18 SOUTH WIND II Penobscot 14’ Joel Jensen Falmouth ME
    19 KINGFISHER New Haven Sharpie 18’ David Thomasson Knoxville TN
    20 CARPENTER II Carpenter 18’ Denis Wang Tilton NH
    21 LEA South Jersey Beach Skiff 15’8” Steve Dwyer Merrimac MA
    22 MEANDER Matinicus peapod 16’ Michael Howard Amherst MA
    23 OCARINA Shearwater 18’ John Silverio Lincolnville ME
    25 KIWI Welsford Pathfinder 17’6” Tom Williamson Windsor VT
    26 PEPITA Melonseed skiff 16’ Mike Wick Morristown NY
    27 REBECCA ANN Caledonia yawl 19’6” Dale Davenport Linville VA
    28 MARY JO Coquina 16’8” John Hutchison Saxonburg PA
    29 NONA B sail and row skiff 14’ Steven Bauer Portland ME
    30 DOLPHIN Green Island 15 15’8” Hank Vincenti Sagamore Hills OH
    33 PRETTY LADY Drascome Dabber 15’ Don Small Castine ME
    34 JUNIE JUMP-UP Penobscot 17 17’ Turner Matthews Bradenton FL
    35 PAGAN Faering derivative 18 Bruce Elfstrom East Haddam CT
    37 GORP Passagemaker 11’6” Justin Muller Marblehead MA
    38 LITTLE SHAVER Core Sound 15 15’3” Stuart Whitcomb Portland OR
    39 RACHEL Myst 18’3” Ted Cody Springfield VT
    41 BINNACLE BAT Thistle 17’ Allan Pickman Temple NH
    42 CUCKOO Coquina 16’8” Maynard Bray Brooklin ME
    44 EMERSON ALBURY Abaco bahamas dinghy 16’ Wade Smith North Franklin CT
    45 HOLD THE HAGGIS Sea Pearl 21’ John Henderson Wayne NJ
    47 LITEN KUHLING εfjordsfaering 19’ Ben Fuller Cushing ME
    48 no name Delaware ducker Ben Fuller Cushing ME
    52 JASMINE Caledonia yawl 19’6” Christopher Drouin Auburn NH
    53 RAN TAN Harrier 17’6” Ben Fuller Cushing ME
    54 WALK-ON-WATER modified Grumman canoe 18’ Sam Manning Camden ME
    55 SUPERSEED Melonseed skiff 18’10” David McCulloch Old Lyme CT
    56 OCOTILLO BLOSSOM Norseboat 17.5 17’6” Tom White-Hassler Newington CT
    57 SELKIE Caledonia yawl 19’6” Joel Page Jeffersonville VT
    58 CALICO JACK Coquina 21’ Bob Lavertue Ludlow MA
    59 OCCAM’S RAZOR Swampscott Dory 16’ Malcolm Forbes Merrimack NH
    60 ELSIE Swampscott dory type 20’ Allen Head Concord NH
    61 CRICKET Stretched Windward 15 16’2” Jim Luton Brooklyn NY
    62 TESS Pelican 14’7” Henry Pinson Attleboro MA
    63 NED LUDD Caledonia yawl 19’6” Geoff Kerr Westford VT
    64 ZEPHYR Sharpie 22’ John Rowse Jamaica Plain MA
    66 BRUCE’S BOAT Core Sound 20 20’ Ray Frechette Lewiston ME
    70 SALLIE ADAMS Carolina spritsail skiff 21’ Jerome Bein Erie PA
    71 WOLFFISH Washington County Peapod 15’4” Charles Chamberlain Brunswick ME

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    Here is #29, Nona B:





    Steven

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    classic SRR Steven,
    will the paint be dry when she goes on the trailer or is it air drying on the way up?

    SRR 08 I built the Alpha dory, set up the mast and sail in the drive way the night before, took everything down, packed it up and drove 5 hrs. to Wooden Boat for the first ever time putting the dory in the water!

    I rember you screwing on oar locks on the elf in 07 right there on the lawn thursday night.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    SRR video
    Ipswich Bay 18, SF Pelican, Coquina, Welsford navigator (I think, red sails), another Coquina, a mellonseed (gaff rig), a gaff rigged yawl with bow sprit and jib, and a streach shearwater with red sheer strake, in back ground, Core Sound 20.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLA9Y...eature=channel

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    Here's SRR participant Peggy Bliss my own design I call an "Ipswich Bay 18" sailing dory
    Why Ipswich Bay? I was playing off the Massachusets Bay waterline class sloops that she is loosely styled after. I drew her roughly to the waterline class rules for a 12 1/2' waterline wich means she was designed to race competitively with other boats that have a 12 1/2 ft water line, a design with a longer waterline should be faster than her and she should be quicker than shorter waterline length boats. Needles to say these boats developed to cram the maximum boat on the minium waterline.
    Here she is at about 10 mph Friday morning the 29th.

    The SRR is loosely based on european Raid Racing events... with out the Race, of course we notice if were passing or being passed but there's no start or finish and no loosers, all winners. The real point for me is to be out there sailing with the fleet watching the other boats (many very interesting historic designs) perform to their best, and hopefully returning the favour for other participants!

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    Jealousy my friends !...it would have been wonderful !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    Clint on the photo thread you were making some interesting performance points about Drake, care to give us more #s
    5 mph rowing up wind, for how long? did you have a gps along Friday how fast werwe you sailing off the wind? this could prove a pretty impressive set of #s for all around performance, traveling very fast up wind and at a respectable speed off the wind while saving some energy.

    Every year at the SRR the row boats are first to the destinations, I have 2 theories
    1 row boats are faster
    2 row boats are less fun more work, and so pick the quickest easiest course...

    As a member of Rings Island Rowing Club for 15 +- yrs. I participated in the Great Gerrish Island race in Kittery Maine wich had a class for sail and oar, it was always won by the boat that rowed the most... one year a nutshell pram rowed the course and raised it's sail for the final leg as it crossed the finish line, first in the sail and oar class, it beat a windsurfer and several larger sail oriented designs in moderate (12-18 mph) but unfavourable wind.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Jealousy my friends !...it would have been wonderful !
    It was...

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    Clint on the photo thread you were making some interesting performance points about Drake, care to give us more #s
    5 mph rowing up wind, for how long? did you have a gps along Friday how fast werwe you sailing off the wind? this could prove a pretty impressive set of #s for all around performance, traveling very fast up wind and at a respectable speed off the wind while saving some energy.

    Every year at the SRR the row boats are first to the destinations, I have 2 theories
    1 row boats are faster
    2 row boats are less fun more work, and so pick the quickest easiest course...

    4.5 knts on the nose of the wind rowing the rhumb line gets there as fast as a sailboat sailing 45 degrees off the wind at about 7.5 knts.

    Planing boats have a difficult time planing hard to the wind. Generally you need to be about 60-65 ff the wind to be planing, and that would require 9.5 to 10 kknts of boat speed to cover enough ground fast enough to get at same destination as rhumb line.

    Now if destination was a beam reach, it would be far easier to come ahead in a sailboat.

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    good points
    Ok so now we have the stamina of the rower vs. the strength of the wind and stamina of the sailors, I think the sailors will hold up far longer than a rower.
    Seems like the lower the wind speed the better all around the rowing oriented boat, Drake type, does. Maintaining 7.5 kts wich is above hull speed at 45 deg. off the wind will be a pretty tall order for Peggy Bliss, probably require at least 14-18? mph breeze, the big deaql is we have to be fully powered up to achieve these speeds. as the wind gets stronger things look better for us sail boats, because rowing against the wind becomes more difficult.
    I see Drake as very effective speed wise because it has vastly superior speed, especially to windward, in the lighter air when our boats are not powered up, this is actually a pretty large percentage of sailing days around Newengland in the summer.

    also notice Drake type was no slouch sailing off the wind actually quite fast because of the narrow very easily driven hull and relatively easy to handle.

    The Beachcomber Alpha dory has a similar capability to row and sail well, but skewed more in the sailing direction, it is quite inferior to Drake rowing into any sort of wind because of the relatively high topsides... but if there is wind then it can sail, if there is no wind it will still not be as fast as Drake but much closer and certainly much faster than IB 18 or Core Sound rowing.
    Last edited by Daniel Noyes; 08-09-2010 at 09:02 PM.

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    Ray I'm also interested in the displacement hull vs. planing hull comparison
    I was struck when sailing down wind to lunch Friday by the speed of the streach Shear water in particular, Peggy Bliss had probably 2x as much sail as the shear water but we just eased past her barely by 1 mph +-
    We saw last year the Alpha dory displacement speed relative to the core Sound in very light wind.
    How much sail area does the CS 20 carry (and how much with the staysail)?
    I would also be interested in the S.A. of the shear water we sailed with.

    Ipswich Bay 18, Peggy Bliss carries 180 sqft in jib and main.

    I think the relative good performance of the displacement hulls in light wind is largely due to their low wetted surface area, they aproximate a semi circle in their sections, while our planeing boats have wide flat bottoms that have greater contact with the waters surface. we can reduce this by intentionally heeling our hull, thisworks quite well on peggy Bliss, get the weight forward and allow her to heel down near the rail and the shape presented to the water becomes more semicurcular.
    Last edited by Daniel Noyes; 08-09-2010 at 11:20 PM.

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    CoreSound 20 rows with 1 person on one oar at about 2 knts.

    As I tell clients it is not a performance rowing boat, however it is perfectly reasonable to have oars sole means of auxillary propulsion if you care to not have a motor

  33. #68
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    CS 20 stock sail area is 150 sq ft. Staysail adds another 80 Sq ft but can only be carried with effect to about 60 degrees off wind before drag overcomes lift. On points downwind at about 140 degrees Staysail starts to starve the main. I am still learning to use the staysail to advantage. at around 140 degrees you want to drop staysail, gybe the main and rehoist staysail to run wing on wing. As rig is unstayed you let Main run about 20-40 degrees forward of the mast to prevent accidnetal Gybe.

    I learned Day two about the starving of Main as we sailed down to Sheldrake Island. It was still pulling better than not having Staysail up, but not a whole lot more than stock sails.

    Spoke to Graham that night to get more coaching on the sail and he advised to drop staysail, gybe main and rehoist staysail in those conditions for about a 40% increase in boatspeed.

    Day three I tired it out solo sailing around point to Bean Island and found him to be right again.

    I too saw how slippery boats can make way nicely in very light airs. Maynard Bray in his Coquina ghosted past me out of the harbor day three in winds measuring under 2 MPH per Davis Windgage. Once underway with staysail up and drawing well after out of harbor I was able to cut up pas thim though and it was a satisfying feeling.

    With CS wide hull it is hard to heel it over enough with only 1 person on board, that and tiller extension only allows me so far forward.

    Where the CS would really shine is wind speeds over 15 knts.

    At 10 knts with stock sail boat readily hops onto plane out to about 7.5 to 8 knts boat speed, I have seen it up to 12 knts boat speed in Stockton Springs harbor sailing with Eric Jergenson, Captain of the Bowdoin.

    At SRR with Staysail up and 3 adults on board we were able to get it to plane on a beam reach in as little as 8 MPH windspeed per Davis Wind Guage.

    At this point I am still learning to sail the boat to her full potential. My Pointing ability has improved dramatically over last year due to alteration of the rig a bit. I need to add a few telltales to wring out the last bit of speed in her in lighter airs as I am off a bit in realizing what it can do when properly trimmed.

    I spoke to Graham about how I was having trouble outpacing Sukie without staysail up and he was downright Brutal. His response is that she was obviously outsailing me. the 17 has less speed potential than the 20, and I also have battens and larger sail roach than her boat.

    When I asked Graham what I might be able to do better his response was it was either sail trim or boat trim.

    Gee that was illuminating!

    Hope to have time on the boat with him next year so he can see what I am doing well and also what I can do better .
    Last edited by Ray Frechette Jr; 08-10-2010 at 01:15 AM.

  34. #69
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Frechette Jr View Post
    CS I spoke to Graham about how I was having trouble outpacing Sukie without staysail up and he was downright Brutal. His response is that she was obviously outsailing me. the 17 has less speed potential than the 20, and I also have battens and larger sail roach than her boat.

    .
    depending on wind speed you could be seeing the same thing with Sukie as displacement hulls, more sail area per wetted surface? also the cs 17 is lighter so should respond a little quicker to light puffs of breeze...
    or it could be your sailing (:

    untill a wide stable planeing hull is powered up and we're sitting on the rail were actually hauling extra hull and wetted surface area around with us.

    The Alpha hull is very narrow and relatively tippy because it has so little boat in the watter, in light wind this means you have a very "small" boat as far as wetted surface goes, as the wind strengthens it heels down and only becomes more stable as more boat enters the water, once the rail is aproaching water level, in this mode of sailing it can take lots of wind, will not plane, but will sail faster than hull speed.

    Also I would point out that the displacement boats tend to be light hulls, mostly open boats while the Ipswich Bay 18 and Core Sounds have pretty extensive decking arrangements with the saftey and convience and weight that those entail.

    vs
    Last edited by Daniel Noyes; 08-10-2010 at 07:51 AM.

  35. #70
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    Default Re: Small Reach designs!

    In extensive testing by Graham the 20 proves faster than the 17 in all conditions.

    add to that I have comparatively greater sail area than Sukie with the roach and battens.

    Mostly it can only be attributed to lack on the part of the captain.

    The 17 weighs in at around 350 lbs before crew and gear and the 20 at around 500.

    By and large the boats do not readily give up much to displacement hulls at low windspeeds and they much more than make up for it in higher windspeeds when the light displacement craft need to reef down and are overpowered. Planing hulls on the other hand turn extra power into motive power rather than heeling forces..

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