Thomas Walker log history..

[Gold Rock]

I don't have one, I'm looking for one. Does anyone have a link/info on a history of the series of recording logs produced by Thos. Walker & Son.?
I've been casually in the market for such a thing for a long time, and have always wanted to determine the specifics for the various models, Excelcior, Cherub, KDO, etc.. Grats.

Chuck

[Jeremy Burnett]

Ive got one of these, Ed has as well, Im sure many English yachts men do too. The two models most used on yachts are the Excelsior and the Knotmaster KDO. The Excelsior is the older design,all metal, with a heavier line and a large metal trailing rotator,these (the rotators) are not so easy to find now. The Knotmaster is the last and more up to date design with a conical shaped black body, thinner line and smaller plastic rotator.It comes in a model with a leg that fits a clamp on the deck or one that can be hung from the pushpit.Both models give distance only and are very accurate.Im not sure if the Knotmaster is still made.They are an invaluable stand by.

[PeterSibley]

I'm looking at mine now ...Knotmaster KDO ,a nice bit of kit !
I think I'm going to have to work out how to cast rotors though, perhaps epoxy in a silicon mould with a brass nose section.Sharks like them .

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Absolutely correct, of course.

I have an Excelsior IV, which I inherited from my father (I think he bought it around 1948!) and a spare spinner for it which I snaffled on E-bay!

For a yacht, you want either the Knotmaster or the Excelsior; you do NOT want a Cherub, which is a "big ship" patent log, optimised for big ship speeds, say 9 to 18 knots. You also do not want a "Harpoon" log, an earlier model where the recording element is in the fish itself, so you have to haul it to read it. These do pop up on Ebay, surprisingly.

If possible, go for an "outrigger pattern" not a "sling pattern" instrument.

My advice is that you look for a nice clean Knotmaster on Ebay with one or two spare spinners (the Knotmaster, unlike the Excelsior, came with spare spinners in the box as part of the outfit).

The point about spare spinners is that sharks eat them - also you might drop one OB when un-attached.

A complete set for an "outrigger pattern" log should also have a pair of shoe plates in the box; these you screw to the rail on the port and starboard quarters. Theoretically you should tow the log from the lee side, but I don't bother; having an offset prop to port I always stream the log to starboard, for very obvious reasons!

You should also find a length of line and a weight for the line - a little bronze torpedo with a set screw in it, which you screw to the line three feet ahead of the fish. If the line is missing or rotten you can use any small diameter hard braided line - 100ft is the right length.

Keep the recording head swimming in oil.

The official way to hand the log is to grasp the line, unhook it, and pay out the end with the hook on as you haul in the fish, then haul in the hoo again; this stops it kinking.

In a flat calm, haul the log fish on board, do so also when you heave to. Omitting these precautions will eventually lead to wrapping the log line round the prop - everybody does this once!

Stream the log when "taking your departure" at the start of a passage.

That's it, I think.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

In the dim dark recesses of my memory is a note about a left-hand-laid line for use with a log...

Could be rubbish.

[paladin]

I've got a like new one for sale.....$215,000.00, never been et by a shark......wood box, spare line and spinner, mold to make new spinners using epoxy and lead shot.......

[paladin]

Yup...I wuz looking around e-bay a couple of days ago to get an idea of value....I found an original...new one in the original box for about 250 bucks....and several others in the 500 dollar range.....after replacing the spinners a few times I decided to make my own...

[Gold Rock]

Thanks much for the info guys. No one knows of some sort of recorded database for these things? I'd think there'd be some sort of history buff org. for these kind of things. You've all given me enough info to satisfy my practical needs (thanks again), but for curiosity I like knowing the provenance of this kind of stuff. Ah well, I suppose only folks really passionate about their interests bother to record histories, you know like the folks who collect beanie babies. Oh, and Paladin, I've set myself a disciplined limit of $100K, sorry.

Chuck

[Gold Rock]

Oh, and Fred, good call on the Rob.White site. I saw that one and have my eye on it.

[PeterSibley]

Andrew ..thanks , a good post !

[Stephen]

Yes - thanks for that Andrew - a very good post.
What oil should you run in the recording head?
And when was the Excelsior first produced?

Here's mine - waiting to turn again...

[paladin]

Geez...I can tell there's some really old boat bums around here......

[Hwyl]

Joseph Conrad talks about them, in I think "Lord Jim" theirs struck a bell every so much distance (mile).

There was a collection of old ones in my alma mater sailing cub www.pdsc.org.uk they were all of the kind that you had to pull aboard to read the spinner.

[Hwyl]

Another point. Where the sinker is on the line, watch for chafe, that's where the line turns from horizontal to angled up to the transom. I think that design discrepancy is the real reason for "lost to sharks".

<retreats toward capstan>

[andrewe]

On a very gentle sail from Sardinia to St. Tropez in ´69(Not much wind and dickey engine.) I noticed the Walker line slack, hauled in, no spinner. I put the only spare on, musing that I didn´t think there were sharks in the Med. Early next morning I was woken by my crew saying he could hear surf, well- that gets you up fast! Shooting out the hatch, knowing we were miles from land, I could hear whooshing noises. It dawned on me we were listening to whales and when it got light, so it was, we were in the middle of a pod of,perhaps 20, 30ft grey whales. The closest they came was about 40ft certainly enough to make me pretty nervous. I hope it was line fatigue and not a whale that got the spinner.
On land fall the log showed exactly the distance between the two ports, Oh, and the promised charts were not for the area so all navigation was by a school atlas I blagged of an expats son. Made it quite interesting.All the nav. aids had been junked after the boat sank as well.So all D.R. If I had been older and wiser I would have walked away.We were lucky the weather didn´t turn bad. I spoke to an American in a T.S.D.Y who was still freaked out after running from a mistral-a week before.
Andrew.

[paladin]

Gareth...I know a shark hit mine....after I lost the first one I replaced part of the line with 6 feet of wire rope because I thought it was line fatigue......a couple of days later the boat felt like it hit a wall, and after a few seconds ...slowly started to move again....and the log was bent almost out of it's mount....and there....just astern was a shark right behind the spinner......

[NealmCarter]

I can sell you one for $100 + shipping neal_carter@verizon.net

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Stephen, your photo shows something that I should have mentioned - the three strand rope is the safety line on the log recording head to stop it getting lost should it OB when you take it in.

Not sure when the Excelsior was first made - will have a look to see what Worth says about them.

The original Walkers Ship Log Oil was fairly viscous; I reckon any half decent modern oil with no graphite in it will do well. I have a vat of agricultural SAE 90/140 in the garage and I tend to use that.

[Jay Greer]

Actually the first recording log was invented by John Smeaton in 1751. It consisted of a bent piece of bronze attached to a clockwork set of dials by a long piece of left hand laid linen line. Smeaton conducted his first trials by rowing a small boat along the banks of the Thames near London Tower. The board of Longitude at Greenwitch was more interested in dealing with compass deviation at that time and took little note of his historic invention. Many years later Walker developed an improvment on Smeaton's basic design for his own recording patend log.
JG

[paladin]

No...but I'll throw in one brand spanking new Baby Blake, original box, spares kit and the Blakes thru hulls.........One like brand new Seagull, 17 more Belaying pins like the one I gave you, and a brand spanking new Avon redcrest complete with motor mount, new oars and foot pump............we can negotiate for the Fynspray galley pump.....a couple of foot operated whale gushers.....some cabin lamps (I'm designing the LED conversions for them) and an autygraphed copy of me book when it's finished......

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Actually the first recording log was invented by John Smeaton in 1751. It consisted of a bent piece of bronze attached to a clockwork set of dials by a long piece of left hand laid linen line. Smeaton conducted his first trials by rowing a small boat along the banks of the Thames near London Tower. The board of Longitude at Greenwitch was more interested in dealing with compass deviation at that time and took little note of his historic invention. Many years later Walker developed an improvment on Smeaton's basic design for his own recording patend log.
JG

Raise you on that, Jay. Take a look at Book 9 of Vitruvius' De Architectura - the passage describing a patent log is quoted in translation in Harrison Butler's "Cruising Yacht Designing and Planning" - the same chapter covers Archimedes and the bath water...

[Jay Greer]

Andrew,
Can't call you on that; since I don't have the book.
My own info comes from: "Compass" by Gurney, a very dry but informative read given to me by a friend at Christmas.
Fair Winds,
Jay

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Jay,

Much as I might like to pretend that I have been reading Vitruvius in the original Latin for fun, the truth is that I have a copy of Dr T Harrison Butler's book, with the translation!

The description of the log is in Vitruvius' chapter on "useful scientific inventions" and we don't know if the Romans actually used it in everyday navigation.

Harrison Butler also quotes Xenophon, IIRC, on the proper stowage of gear!

[lofting4fun]

have a complete in orig box, both spinners ect...trade ?

[riggertroy]

In the dim dark recesses of my memory is a note about a left-hand-laid line for use with a log...

Could be rubbish.

Left lay for lead lines I think

[Bothen]

I am trying to find out the differences in the models of the Excelsior. Is there anyone that know the differences of model I to V?

Moved to new dicussion "Ship Log Walkers´s Excelsior I-V"

[goodbasil]

I've got one, brand new but not complete. Can't remember the model. I think the oil was whale oil.

Guy down the street draged one twice around the world, sharks came for a sniff but never took it.

[Hwyl]

Bothen, you would be better starting a dedicated thread