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Thread: 17' Hampden (Hampton) boat

  1. #1
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    Default 17' Hampden (Hampton) boat

    I have searched the Forum for this boat and found a few references. I fell in love with the shape of it while learning to loft using Chapelle's 'Boatbuilding'. Has anyone out there actually built one?
    If so, how does she sail/row/scull/trailer/launch/retrieve? What rig? Any pics?
    Charlie Boatbear

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    Quote Originally Posted by boatbear View Post
    I have searched the Forum for this boat and found a few references. I fell in love with the shape of it while learning to loft using Chapelle's 'Boatbuilding'. Has anyone out there actually built one?
    If so, how does she sail/row/scull/trailer/launch/retrieve? What rig? Any pics?
    Charlie Boatbear
    I love the boat's look too, and intend to build one.

    As I recall, Ish has sailed in one, made (I think) at the Apprenticeshop. Said it was as lovely as I'd imagined, handled well under sail, but I don't recall if he'd used it under oars.

    t.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    I sailed one. It was cold moulded, and may have been lighter than the original, but we had three adults in it. The wind was light, but it sailed very well. I didn't try rowing it. This boat had the designed rig. It provided plenty of drive.

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    A few links -

    http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulleti...p/t-12228.html

    Here's a great link with the drawings -
    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=15507



    And some photos of something similar from the TSCA's Wet Turkey Row in Tomales Bay, CA -



    Last edited by Thorne; 02-28-2007 at 07:38 PM.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

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    Thanks Gentlemen. Thorne, the links refer to the 24 footer which is a bit too much like a ship, a very pretty one, of course. The other one, with the pictures appears to be the 17' Hampden as I remember it. I wonder what that long keel would be like to live with. Trailering could be a problem, or an opportunity to design an appropriate trailer. Sculling with that keel would be nice. As a rowboat it would certainly track well and the water line looks forgiving, but it looks heavy, too. It is quite a lot of boat for 17'. Volume, I mean. It looks so competent, and has an understated elegance about it. I'd like to strip plank it and would probably want a gaff rig and water ballast. Any thoughts?
    TomF, you've been smitten, obviously. What are your intentions? (I'm sorry, I realise I sounded like an over-protective father there)

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    My intentions? When I stop renovating the damned house, it's the project that comes next on the list. The construction plans say that the original was stripped, to finish 3/4" thick. I intend to go a bit lighter than that, using whatever scantling rule MacNaughton recommends for sheathed strip in a boat this size, and make up the difference in weight with some removable internal ballast along the centreboard case, a little grounding shoe on the bottom of the keel, or a chunk of lead in the centreboard itself.

    In an idle fit of googling last year, I ran across a link to a used boat somewhere in the UK, about 1979 vintage. For a brief period, someone produced this design commercially in glass. The ad for the used boat included a review from a 1979 UK publication, where the boat had been taken out for sea trials, in some fairly bumpy weather - the the reviewer was quite stunned by its capability. The only difference so far as I could tell - and one the reviewer pointed out - was that the foresail was a bit smaller than originally drawn, reduced in overlap. He felt that it still gave great drive, and was perhaps a bit easier to steer as a result.

    But yeah, while I'll dream and drool over big boats, we had a moderate sized keel boat growing up. Life being what it is, we spent way more time daysailing than ever cruising ... and my lifestyle's not too different. I realistically think that this one will do all the afternoon sailing jobs, whether on the river, in lakes, or trailered to the ocean nearby. Enough space for my brood, and to carry camping gear for the occasional jaunt. And a design proven seaworthy enough to handle any conditions safe enough to really be out in, in a small open boat - provided that the crew's competent.

    I wonder about the rig, and reefing. I think that, like many shallops, I might put in a third mast step, to shift the boomed mizzen forward to where it would balance as a catboat, if winds got high enough. Probably tie that in somehow to the front end of the centreboard case. Could get around that reefing issue by shifting to a gaff rather than sprit rig, but it would require higher masts, much more weight up high, and prolly for not a whole lot of benefit. I think I'd do better to learn how to sail a sprit well ...

    t.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    A couple of resources for anyone interested in the Hampton boat ...

    Mystic Seaport has plans for a 17-footer named Cuspidor (4 sheets with lines, offsets, construction details and sail plan, order 61.916). There's a writeup on her in Ben Fuller's "87 Boat Designs."

    And John Gardner's "Wooden Boats to Build and Use" has a great article on the "Migration of the Hampton Boat," with pictures of older boats (including the original Cuspidor under sail).

    Myself, I'm kinda partial to the looks of the Kingston lobster boats, which evolved from the Hampton boat -- especially Annie Fuller, a 16 footer (also in 98 Boat Designs, with plans from Mystic). As Ben suggests, strip-planked with glue instead of nails, she' be a great small trailerable daysailer.
    Last edited by Steve Paskey; 03-01-2007 at 11:13 AM.

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    If I remember correctly, the Maine Maritime Museum in Bath has one of these. It's sitting behind the small boat shop. Up until they jettisoned the boat shop staff, she was in the water every summer and occasionally sailed.

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    I've thought long and hard about Cuspidor too - I've got that picture of her sailing enlarged, tacked up on the wall beside the computer. IIRC, Ben Fuller commented that Cuspidor would be a good option for a recreational Hampton daysailer ... because that's what she was designed for. The removable bowsprit sure makes her look cool.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    I got out the illuminated magnifying glass last night and looked at all of Chapelle's drawings in _American Small Sailing Craft_ of the Hampden and related boats -- very nice stuff.

    But you are right, the 17' at the TSCA event was far too heavy to row in anything but a dead calm, and launching was quite a project. His trailer had removable posts with balanced arms with rollers to fit under the hollows by the transom, and the whole rig had to go WAY down the ramp before the boat would float free.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

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    The one I sailed was the one in 'Boatbuilding.' It was light, and from the way it moved under sail in light air, I'm guessing it would row reasonably well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Agne View Post
    If I remember correctly, the Maine Maritime Museum in Bath has one of these. It's sitting behind the small boat shop. Up until they jettisoned the boat shop staff, she was in the water every summer and occasionally sailed.
    I was there when she was built and would not consider her a boat to keep on a trailer for the reasons stated above by Thorne. Nor did she sail very well IMO.
    "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."

    -Mark Twain

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    Rbgarr, I'm curious.

    What was it about the boat's sailing that struck you? I've heard that a reproduction of "Cadet" was made, an early double-ended Hampton, and it was pretty heavy and slow. Or at least, was so in summer winds ... would likely have been a bit different in heavy weather.

    Might it be that the boat you sailed in was under-canvassed for the present recreational use? Making it feel like driving a pickup truck with a tired engine, rather than a lighter vehicle with more spunk? ...
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    It strikes me that most Hampden boats have a lot of wetted surface for a centerboarder. The 17-footer in Boatbuilding is an exception because of its slack garboards and narrow waterline beam. Most have a quick turn to the garboards aft and a deep built-down skeg.

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    John, that's part of what's attracted me to that particular boat.

    The cold-moulded version you were in - do you remember enough about the particular boat that you can talk a bit more about it? Interior set-up, whether it had been half decked or left open, etc.?
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    I only sailed the boat a couple times, and liked it. I knew the guy who built it, talked extensively, and from what he said planking the tuck with solid plank was a bear. Bastard ran off with my wife for awhile, but that's another story.
    So many questions, so little time.

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    The boat was left open, and had plenty of room. I didn't get to sail it in brisk conditions, so I can't say whether that was a good idea. It seems to me it probably was. The boat is sharp enough forward and has enough flare that I don't think it would be a wet boat. It has slack bilges, but a fairly wide beam, so I expect it would stiffen up before the rail went under. My experience of loose-footed sprit rigs is that they are a pleasure to jibe, provide a lot of drive for their area reaching and to windward, and are slow down wind. The original rig won't point with my Snipe, but it's not a racing boat. I'd stick with it. For a boat that lives on a trailer, the shorter spars of a sprit rig are a big advantage.

  18. #18
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    Thanks gents.

    Yup, I do think that will be the boat project. Once my ^$%# house renovations are done.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    One thing that bothers me about the sprit rig is that the sprit interrupts sail shape half the time, ie when the stick is behind the sail. I made one for my first boat (a plywood pram dinghy) and had a lot of fun with it, learning how to sail. The boat had all the grace of a tomato crate and the sprit rig looked the part; that is, just as weird. And that’s the other thing that bothers me about the rig. Other sailboats would move away if I blundered into their range of vision. Their crews, smug with their tall, graceful Bermudan rigs, would laugh openly as they whooshed past me. Have I offended any Sprit aficionados out there?
    For my next boat (Swampscott dory) I used a gaff rig. It points a lot higher, looks (and is) competent, and can be raised and lowered very quickly. There’s a lot to be said for having a mainsail attached to the mast with string. It has also surprised some other crews out on the water with its performance to windward.
    I think the 17’ Hampden would work nicely with a gaff rig. Of course there would be a fair bit of mucking about with the design of the rig – a challenge I look forward to. I have just set up Free!ship and am looking forward to modelling the Hampden to assist with all this.
    And, like TomF's situation, the renovations lurk, just behind me, claiming 'Top of List' status.
    I also like the Australian Couta Boat, but don’t know if it can be scaled down to 5 to 5.5m (17-18’) effectively. This size is optimum, I think, for my needs – easy to trailer, simple to rig, easy to row, and suited to my tastes. Favourite boating involves lots of chatting, sipping wine or beer, making interesting sandwiches, cooling down with a swim, exploring rivers and lakes, etc ..
    Seaworthiness is also important, and the Hampden has that for sure.

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    The sprit rig is simpler, easier to rig, and provides the largest sail area for a given height of mast. Those are the advantages. There are disadvantages, which is why other rigs exist. If the boat's going to live on a trailer, I'd say the sprit rig is a good way to go. If it's sitting at a dock witht he sail covers on, some other rig might be better.

  21. #21
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    Default Time to revive this thread ...



    I have finally found the time to learn Delftship and model the Hampden boat, using the offset table (from Chapelle's 'Boatbuilding'). It is a shapely hull from any angle. One of my favourite things to do is shade it in Autocad and set it on 'continuous orbit'.

    As modelled, the hull has the following dimensions -
    LOA: 5.10m (16' 9”)
    LWL: 4.47m (14' 8”)
    Beam: 1.88m (6' 2”)
    Draft: 0.52m (1' 9”)

    Now, I love it as it is, but I want to tweak it – bend it to my will, if you like. I like the hull shape, but I want to reduce the depth of the skeg by about 150mm (6”) to make it easier to trailer / launch / retrieve /beach. I also want to put a single mast with a gaff main, and fit a bowsprit and a self-tending jib, just because I like it that way. In the process I hope to learn a lot more about the theory of boat design. Here is the modified hull.



    My intention is to build using WRC strip sheathed in glass and epoxy. The boat will live on a trailer and be sailed, rowed and skulled in lakes and rivers typically, with the occasional 350km trip to salt water.

    I followed with interest and absorbed a fair bit of Chad's (CS) thread ('Looking for the perfect design') a few months ago, and have made use of info there to produce this first draft proposal. (any further progress, BTW, Chad?)



    Am I on the right track? Are the CE and CLR points within a bull's roar of a working arrangement? There is obviously a lot more to work out, and I am hoping that forum members will find time to offer comments and advice as I proceed.

    I would be happy to pass on the Delftship or Autocad files to anybody interested - PM me with an email address.
    Thanks in advance,
    Charlie

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    If the rudder sticks down below the skeg, you'll be in danger of damaging it when you beach the boat. I'd go with a barn-door shape and make the tiller a little longer to give you more leverage.

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    JohnW, I like the barn-door rudder but I'm thinking that with the reduction of skeg depth, that I'll need the rudder to go deeper than the skeg.The rudder blade will be pivoted, and held down somehow (rubber strap?). It is a necessity here, with lots of dead trees under the water.
    But I'm blundering around here, with dangerously small amount of knowledge.
    All comments welcomed.

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    oooohhh Aaaaaahhh.

    Damn, that's a lovely boat. The downside of trimming off the skeg as you've done is that the reduced drag to the keel will make it slightly less resistant to broaching in big seas - though that's likely not an issue for us modern day pleasure sailors.

    I'll still go for the original rig, I think. I like the idea of a camp cruiser with a whole lot of space in the middle of the boat without a boom cramping things. I like the idea of brailing the main, and slinging a line between the two masts to form the ridge for a tent or awning.

    Whichever way it works out, I'm glad to see this thread resurrected too. Thanks for posting your work!

    t
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Alternative design

    There seems to be a concensus that this is a big 17 footer. The Moosabec Reach Boat in John Gardner's last book is 14'3" , an excellent sailer, and easily rowed, with a sprit rigged formast, boomed aft mast and three positions for mast location. I've built one, sailed it in moderately rugged conditons and been very happy with it.

    Peter Simpson

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    Peter,

    Can you try tinypic.com to post a picture of the Moosabec Reach boat?

    If there's ever a chance (Rockport Short Ships Race?) I hope the Moosabec Reach boat can sail/row against the Washington County peapod from Chapelle's American Small Sailing Craft. I bet that would be a good contest!

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    JohnW, I'm liking the barn-door approach more as I push rudder shapes around. The bottom of the skeg is still 380mm below the waterline so would have to be effective, given sufficient length. And it's one less moving part. Thanks. I’ll look at some other boat rudders and think about sizing.

    TomF, how are the renovations going? Thanks for the encouraging remarks, and yes, she is a cracker. I'd really like to sail one with the original rig, but not enough to actually build that way. How would you plank this boat, by the way?

    Peter, I'd love to see some pics, and any other info on the Moosabec Reach boat.

    Charlie

  28. #28
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    If you go to "building" , search for moosabec, then clik on the second link you are lead to asite called village soup and automatically will be on the page with photos of construction and sailing. I'm new to this site and haven't worked everything out yet. Incidentally the boat was great fun to build and will be at the Woodenboat Magazine Small Reach Regatta in August. So far it is the smallest boat listed.

    Peter
    Last edited by ROCKPORTMARINEPURCHASING; 07-04-2007 at 08:44 AM.

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    One thing about these two rigs, nobody wants to sit forward of the shrouds, so the original rig allows you the use of more of the boat. Me, I wouldn't change the skeg or the rig, but you're the one launching and setting it up.

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    Peter Simpson's Moosabec boat is here http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...4-7b83260998f3

    That's a really beautiful boat, Peter. Thank you.

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    Default pushing right along ..

    Some small progress with the internal arrangement. I like the idea of having a foredeck set about 100mm (4”) below the sheer, with buoyancy forward and a ‘hold’ for camping gear and stuff. There will also be a buoyancy chamber in the stern.


    I have pushed around some rudder and centreboard shapes. Nothing is yet set in epoxy, of course.
    Re: the centreboard – I am thinking about making it out of stainless sheet, using a suitable foil profile, and filling the leading edge with about 25 to 30 Kg of lead. I would also like to be able to remove it easily when I want to go rowing / camping on the river. So, rather than have it pivot on a through-bolt, I want pivot pins on the c’board and be able to lower it into a sort of keyway slot inside the c’board case. Does anyone know if this has been done? (I assume that almost everything has been done before)

    I also want to have some canvas ‘slings’ between the aft edge of the foredeck and the forward edge of the centre thwart, either side of the c’board case – like canvas deckchairs. I have this arrangement on my current boat and it is a very comfortable place for the two-legged ballast to lounge whilst under sail.

    I still don’t know if there is sufficient ‘lead’ (CE / CLR relationship), and would really appreciate some input here.

    Does anyone know how I can post vector drawings? At the moment I am printing Autocad drawings to a PDF maker, then using the snapshot tool in the Adobe viewer to create a JPG raster image, which is pretty furry. There must be a better way!


    I am still learning Delftship and plan to model as much as I can of the various parts of the boat. (it is currently my favourite computer game). I periodically export the DXF into Autocad just so I can see it spin.



    Thanks for the input and encouragement. All comments welcomed.
    Charlie

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    There is a 23' double ended Hampton Boat listed in the Smithsonian and the Mystic collection. *squints at drawing, trys to imagine pilot house and raised deck*

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    Default More 3D model pics

    I’m getting the hang of Delftship now and have modelled most of the bits needed to really visualise the boat. The lines showing shrouds and sails were added in Autocad.







    I am finding that my first waking thoughts now involve this boat. I can feel the wind in my nostrils and how she heels when I haul on the mainsheet. The last time this happened I spent every spare minute for two years in the shed building a boat. Will counselling help, or is it already too late? Should I warn those near and dear?
    Charlie

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    I wouldn't make the board that heavy. It could be a lot of work to raise. Also, one way to make the boat quick is to avoid a lot of induced drage from the centerboard slot by using, say, quarter-inch or 3/8 stainless. Give it a blunt front edge and a sharp trailing edge and it will work pretty well. The small slot will reduce drag. Your aspect ratio on the centerboard is such that it won't stall to easily anyway. I'd cant the back edge of case forward more so that if you're towed the case doesn't shoot water up into the boat. I'd also go with a bigger rudder.

    Geary 18s do just fine with a 1/4 inch steel centerboard, and their rules now allow 1/4 inch aluminum. Snipe used to have steel daggerboards 3/8 inch thick, but they weighed about 80 pounds and were a total pain. Now we use 3/8 aluminum. Snipes are quick to windward, so it works.

    You might think about putting some bouyancy in the sides so that if she swamps, you have enough stability to bail the boat out.

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