Hey South Jersey guys

[Thad Van Gilder]

Just noticed they are reframing a 60 foot charter boat at the Tuckahoe yard. It's right next to the gate, and damn! they have some tight grain 12/4 doug fir for sawn frames!!!!!!

-Thad

[Tom Kenny]

Thad, I talked to John Y. a couple of weeks ago and he told me that Milt from CM as doing the repairs and planking.

[Thad Van Gilder]

Yup that's what he told me. He also said he was looking for a weekend guy, and he never called me!!!!!

-Thad

[Mike DeHart]

Thad, have you ever been through Fairton on the Cohansey River? There is a small boatyard there where they almost always have something interesting on the rails. They seem to do mostly woodies. It is probably the last remaining small marine railway on the Delaware Bay. I ran the length of the Maurice River one day and saw the remains of 4 or 5 small yard railways, now long gone.

[Tom Mac]

Mike, My son lives in Mauricetown, Where is Fairton? I am on Long Island and visted my son , we go round to the boatyards, there are about 2 or 3 yards. a lot of old crab boats and draggers. I need more trips to boatyards when I come down to Mauricetown. Thanks Tom Mac

[Thad Van Gilder]

Mike, I haven't...

You'll have to give me directions!!!!!

I just know where the greenwich boat yard is...


So, have you got the fashion times made up for that shad skiff yet?

-Thad

[Rick_NJ]

I was out for a drive yesterday and drove up from the Bivalve area, I passed a couple of small yards before going into Bridgeton.

Is the small yard you are referring to close to the road?

Rick

[Rick_NJ]

is it this one?

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=boatya...h&om=1&iwloc=A

[Mike DeHart]

WOW! That's the yard. Great pic. Route 553 about 5 miles(?) south of Bridgeton, on the way to Port Norris / Bivalve. Smack in the center of booming downtown Fairton, right next to the fire house. From Mauricetown: Buckschuetem Road to Bridgeton, left on 49, left on 553 near center of town two blocks before the bridge. Follow to the end and turn right at the T. Just down on the right.

The marina at Greenwich Pier has many rotting corpses of old wood boats including Delaware Bay oyster schooners, buy boats, and an 80 foot Elco PT boat built for WWII but not put into action due to the other side giving up too soon. This boat is rumored to have once been Clark Gable's personal yacht. Directions? It is in the middle of nowheresville. Easier to give directions from the water and let you find it on your own map. Delaware Bay to Ship John Shoal lighthouse. Approximate 30° course to the Cohansey River. Up the river maybe 7 reaches, past Hancock's Harbor marina (Bait Box restaurant-good food! Not affiliated, but filled up there many times.) to the next marina, Greenwich Boat Works.

Fairton is actually a couple miles farther up the Cohansey on the way to Bridgeton.

Edit: Thad, no skiff work yet. Weather won't let me finish the garage so I can empty the boat shed. Patience. She'll float agin.

[Cecil Borel]

As a native of Bridgeton NJ, I have followed the activities in both boat yards for years. Greenwich has more boats, but Fairton always has something interesting going on. The other stop is Bivalve, on the Maurice River, where there is usually some interesting boat restoration going on.
Here is a nice example of the Greenwich collection

[Rick_NJ]

The PT boat is on the hard up by the road. Its not an 80' but a 70' prototype (PT-4 ?) that was built at Philly Navy Yard. It was berthed in Bridgeport but vandals cut it loose and it sunk. It was moved down to the Fairton Yard about 2-3 years ago.

[Thad Van Gilder]

Mike,

Clark Gable's PT boat / yacht conversion is at Yank's right by Misquito landing road (best named road in NJ!!!!!)

And, are you refferring to the 94 foot PT like boat at Greenwich? I checked that sucker out for a sucker in Africa a while back...

what a piece of crap, but I'd love to have the Cast bronze combination shaft strut and stern tubes in that thing...

I could cast tons of hardware for my next boat outa them!!!!!

-Thad

[Mike DeHart]

The PT I'm referring to is at Greenwich Pier, not Fairton. It has been there many many years and has NEW BUCCANEER written on the sides. A local stories of Greenwich book I read ID'd it as Gables' boat. I have not seen the one at Yank's. Local tales are not always correct, although I correctly retold it as I read it. I have seen the boat at Fairton and wondered what it was. It is absolutely amazing the extent of boat and ship building that once took place along the Delaware. Everything from tiny hunting skiffs right up to the toughest darn warships ever to set sail. Imagine the pic above of that oyster dredging schooner back when she had a pair of gaff rigged masts and a ton of canvas. You can just see the cabin top above the aft rail and under that ugly pilot house conversion.

[Tom Mac]

Mike De Hart, I been looking at the New Jeresy map, and I find that the boatyards, are near Mauricetown. The next vist to Mauricetown will be boatyard hopping. Thanks Tom Mac

[JoeReese]

Hi all. I have just stumbled on this thread, after driving past the PT in Fairton and wondering wth it was. Here's what I've got so far, based on some of what I've read here and some prior research.

The PT boat on the rails in Fairton (Flanigan Brothers Boatyard) http://www.flaniganbros.com/
is according to their website PT-3, which looks very much like PT-4. I knew it looked PTish, but I didn't have a clue what type until I read here, then went looking for pics of PT-4. I found pics of PT-3 instead, at Navsource.org, and then found the boatyard's webpage. I got a little more confirmation that it was PT-3 when I sent this information to a friend who is heavily involved with PTs and got back pics of the boat in Fairton.

About 10 years ago, I was working in Greenwich and could have sworn I saw a gray PT hull. I called the boat works later, and was given the name of Ronald Sinn as the owner, but the numbers I was able to find for him were disconnected and I never got further with it. Recently I was back in the area and saw the New Buccaneer. I thought it was a PT, and caught myself thinking I must have only imagined it being gray. I called the boat works again, and was told that New Buccaneer was a PT. I took some pics and sent them out, and the return I got was a pic of the USAF 94' boat R-21-1251. The same numbering (in the same position as nearly as I can tell) still appears on New Buccaneer.

I also recently heard about the PT468 (Elco, former Sightseer tour boat in Wildwood NJ area) being restored as the PT109. I was able to find a couple of pics on Navsource, and the owner of 468 is Captain Ronald Sinn (the first civilian owner was George Sinn). To my knowledge (and some google image views) the boat is still in the Wildwood area, and appears to have two torpedo tubes mounted slightly forward, which is the case in the Navsource pics. The gray hull I thought I had seen in Greenwich years ago had no such tubes (don't even remember if it had a superstructure). It is possible this was the 486, being either stored or worked on in Greenwich, before being moved back to Wildwood for the remainder of the restoration. The owner's name (Sinn) given to me by the boat yard owner back then seems to make that the case.

So we know R-21-1251 is in Greenwich, as of the other day. PT-3 (if their site is accurate, but one of those early prototypes at any rate) sits on the rails in Fairton as of a few hours ago, and the 486 (now the new 109) is on the ground at a boat yard near Wildwood.

Other than those, and the boats at Battleship Cove, in New Orleans, and in Texas, as well as the 658 in Portland, does anybody know of other PTs out there?

[Dale Genther]

For years there was some sort of PT boat at Worton Creek Marina on the Chesapeake Bay. I thinks it is still there, but haven't been there in a couple of years.

[Thad Van Gilder]

Dale, the last time I was at Worton Creek it was hauled with its engines sitting on the ground in front of it. That boat is in really rough shape!!!!

[Dale Genther]

Thad, That's how it looked the last time I saw it. I fact, I think the last time I was there, was when I picked you up there and took you to Rock Hall

[Thad Van Gilder]

yeah I was there last summer to visit my friends boat and it had not moved!

[Mike DeHart]

I have an update on the "New Buccaneer" sitting in Greenwich. It is indeed the USAF R-21-1251. This original thread led a guy to contact me about this boat. I went down there and took several pictures for him. I was able to photograph the original numbering actually carved into the bow on the port side. Funny, if it had not been deteriorated so badly, the putty in those carved numbers would still be intact and her true identity may never have been confirmed. Anyway, this is not a PT boat. It is an experimental US Air Force (Yes! An AIR FORCE boat!) 94 foot "crash rescue boat." It is one of two experimental boats built for fast rescue of downed pilots. It was based on the WWII PT boats and shared many of its design features wih them. It was built in Michigan as I recall. The gentleman who contacted me was very interested because his father was the designer of those two 94 footers. He hoped to visit the boat before it turns back into soil. The boat design never went into production. It was based on an already obsolete power system, the Merlin aircraft engines, and the development of the helicopter put crash rescue boats out of business. The story I got was that the designer wanted to use "modern" marine diesels for power, but the USAF insisted on the "proven" V-12 Merlin engine because it was available, in government inventory, and plenty of service men knew how to run it, even though the Navy was getting away from it at the time. And yes, I did check to see if the merlins were still inside. They are not. Three GM diesels (671's I think) sit there instead.

[Rick_NJ]

Mike,

Thanks for the update. I was at Greenwich a couple weeks ago and I saw the New Buccaneer sitting there.

Here is the story of moving the PT3 from a member of the military vehicle mailing list.

PT3 Update
From: JOHN SEIDTS (john@astory.com)
Date: Mon Aug 21 2000 - 15:35:15 PDT


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


First, thanks to all who offered support, moral and physical. PT3 is a very
special boat, and when I get the website built, you will learn just how
special a military vehicle this boat is.


Here is the status. Today, all the volunteers who showed up assisted in
removing any items from the boat which might be pilfered. Someone has
already stolen the wheel, bell, and original US lanterns from her while she
was in distress. Then, the former owner, who LIVED on her for almost 25
years, did a hull survey. The divers hired earlier managed to patch some of
the holes in the hull caused by old pilings. They also managed to remove
the chief problem piling from the muck, freeing PT3 to move around.
However, there is one 2x3 foot hole still there caused by that stubborn
piling. Tomorrow, more professional divers are coming to place airbags,
raise her up, and then place a patch over this large breach. If she is then
seaworthy, we are going to try and tow her to a safer location, perhaps the
marine railway she was recently headed for to have hull work done.


Once again, the owner and I appreciate all the assistance offered and given
on this difficult project. If anybody is up for helping tomorrow, please
contact me at 410-675-2106 before 11:00 PM this evening. The boat is
located in Southern New Jersey, near Swedesboro.


john@astory.com
http://www.astory.com

Rick

[Rick_NJ]

The rest of the story.

It wasn't a dark and stormy night, but here is how the adventure went.


Tuesday, about 0730, the hired divers showed up and gave us more information
about the damage to PT3. These two had already worked on the hull last
week, when the Coast Guard hired them to assist them getting it out of the
navigation channel on the river. After they got it raised with airbags, the
USCG ordered them to sink it away from the channel.
The divers said that the hull was mostly intact, as far as they could see.
There were 10 holes of various sizes and places, but the one they could not
fix the last week was an 18 X 32 inch gash right up from the keel on
starboard side, which is right where the hull takes the most pounding when
it cuts through the water. The area just above that spot, tracing a line up
to the bow on the center line, also called the chine, had already leaked
before the mishap, so we knew that it had only been weakened further.
Worse, there was no way to get onto that area a single patch to cover it
completely, because of the shape of PT3's hull. So that meant that we would
be traveling with an open hole no matter where we went.


The divers got going. We had four volunteers other than the owner helping
us out. We finished cleaning out obstacles from the inside of the hull
while the divers patched it. I wound up tending hose for one of the divers,
and handing him stuff while he patched the hull. We worked through low
tide. PT3 was now resting on the muddy bank of the creek, anchored in place
by lines tied to the local trees. We had enough patches on by about noon,
so we got a 6 inch pump, and ran the intake into the hull. While the tide
was coming in, and the pump was working, the divers patched the large breach
I mentioned, and PT 3 started FLOATING!


The pump stayed ahead of the water coming in, but all the patches leaked.
This wasn't really news to us, as we had been warned this was normal. But
looking at the water flowing in steadily, the reality that I would probably
be on the hull for the trip south to the marine railway kicked in! So I
started looking at the patches VERY CRITICALLY. And we did make one
suggestion to the divers. They had used a thin wood board on the big
breach. We asked them to re-inforce it. Boy am I glad we did.


At about 4:30, I realized that it was ready to go, and I tried to steer the
team that way. We had perfect weather. Unfortunately, what we didn't have
were lights for the tow craft, commo between the two boats, and a plan- we
didn't really expect that this boat would float. None of us there had
enough experience or confidence in the process we were in. What we did have
was one bad diesel in the tow craft, five tired puppies, and dark
approaching. We heard that bad weather was approaching, and I wanted to get
out of there before then, but it just wasn't in the cards.


So we towed PT3 away from its site of sinking, and anchored near the mouth
of the creek, right next to the Delaware River. Then we set up watch for
the pumps, and caught a little sleep while we planned for the next day. We
would only have four people to work the tow.


I set the alarm on the cell phone for every two hours, and went to sleep.
The pumps stayed ahead of the water pretty well. But none of us could
really sleep. I was up at 0009, 0222, and 0444. At 0444, I just poked my
head out of the bunk, looked at the hull to make sure it was level, heard
the pumps running, and went back to sleep.


Tuesday morning, about 06:30, we all got up. Everything was in order.
Except we could not start the Starboard engine on the tow boat. It would
turn, and not start. Bad news with a diesel on the water. They the starter
stopped working. More bad news. We needed to get fuel, so we left PT 3 and
all went up the creek on one engine two hundred yards to a landing where we
could refuel.
Two crew members got on the starter, tearing it apart and rebuilding the
starting solenoid. Bad contacts. The fuel truck arrived, and we took on
200 gallons while they ground hopped the starter. Worked. Now we crossed
our fingers and hoped the engine would start. IT DID! Five more gallons of
gas for the pumps, and we headed down to grab PT3.


We all took a deep breath as we hooked onto PT 3. We hooked on with an old
braided cotton tow line (BAD IDEA) and headed down the creek. It was only a
few minutes to the Delaware River. If you want to look at how we went, we
left out of Bridgeport NJ, down Raccoon Creek, and then south on the
Delaware River to the Cohansey River, to a marine rail near Bridgeton.
About 40 miles by road. About 60 miles by water.


We turned onto the Delaware River, and the fun started. The tow line
parted. We had centered a figure of eight in the middle, had it roped onto
two stern cleats on the tow boat. The one side parted, and the safety line
and second side held. So I tied a Bowline and figure 8 in the rope, and we
adjusted the center for the lost length, and we headed south again.


Right before we left, we had called a friend of the owner to have him pick
us up at the destination. He was going to be there anyway, as he was going
out on a fishing boat for half of the day. Well, he told us that none of
the boats were going out, as the river and bay was too rough. We didn't
like it, but really didn't have a choice. We HAD to get it to the railway.
PT 3 had to come out of the water. The pumps told us that.


Seas were anywhere from 2 to 3 feet, and further down, they were 4-6 feet.
The weather forecast said 3-4 feet, but I was there, and they were 4-6 feet.
We hadn't hit the Delaware Memorial Bridge yet, when the tow line parted.
At this time, the seas were in the 3-4 range. The tow boat cut its power,
and we drifted closer. Too fast for us to stop, CRUNCH. We put another
hole in PT3, this one above the water line, about twelve inches by five
inches.


Okay, deep breath, and we rigged a new tow line, from Anchor Line. Two
separate pieces. I figure 8'ed them and threw them onto the tow boat. It
was now keeping its distance. Pumps were still pumping, now a little
faster, because while we are stopped, the waves are hitting us pretty hard.
Okay, we're hooked up, and everything is going well. We start off again.


By this time, about three hours went by. We were just south of the Delaware
Memorial Bridge. We are keeping an eye on the pumps on PT3, and they are
working well. Our friend gives us a time check. At this point, it is 2:00.
We are not feeling real confident at this point. We are down in the hull,
looking at the patches flex from the waves, and it makes me feel very
mortal. But there is too much to do. Keeping watch over the pumps, making
lines neat, bow and stern watch... Jesus, am I ever glad I never joined
the Navy.


The owner and I are on the stern of PT 3, catching a breeze, and avoiding
the diesel fumes, when we feel ourselves slow down. There was a sudden loss
of power in the starboard engine of the tow boat, the same one we had
problems with earlier with the starter and injectors. We stand on the bow
of PT3 watching the captain pulling the hatches. He steps down, and
manually powers up the diesel. Somewhere, some of the throttle linkage has
slipped. It is not the engine. But there is about twenty feet of throttle
linkage, and it looks like he may be wiring up the throttle with bailing
wire to keep the speed up because all that linkage is through solid boat on
4-6 foot seas. He takes a guess, and lucks out. The linkage slipped off of
a pulley right inside the control box on the steering station.


After that, it was another two hours of bobbing like a cork, breathing
diesel, and listening to pumps and watching patches. I look down into the
bilge, see an eel, and think that at least one of the three living souls on
PT 3 will live if she goes down. 33 tons of boat doesn't like to go down
alone. We found a half sodden chart of the area we were sailing in, and
followed our progress down the bay.


It was quite a feeling when we got to the Cohansee River. It was right at
high tide. It was a beautiful, somewhat relaxing ride up the river for
another three hours. We had started at 10:00 in the morning. We tied up at
8:30 in the evening. We didn't get things neat until about 10:00. None of
us had eaten all day. None of us had slept particularly well in the last 36
hours.


But we saved her...


PT 3 is hopefully right now on a railway. I left her tied up 200 feet from
the rail, so I'm going to take a stab and say nothing happened. I'm going
to call today to see if she's okay and will post the list when we get her
going. I will put photos of her on the website when I get a chance.


I want to thank all those who offered support physical and moral. I will
keep the list posted as things develop.


john@astory.com
http://www.astory.com

[Mike DeHart]

Nice adventure. I have seen the PT on the railway, but not recently. Any progress on the restoration?

And Thad, I still have not started on the shad skiff. Life has been "interesting" in the last few years. I started cleaning out the shed this spring and looking her over again. I feel some work coming on.

[Thad Van Gilder]

Mike.... Get on it man!!!!

[shade of knucklehead]

Pt-3 is just sitting in the front of our yard. Its a shame. Currently we are trying to get the owner to remove it from our yard or sell it to someone who actually wants to work on it.

[shade of knucklehead]

Oh, by the way, I'm the railway in Fairton, NJ.

[Bob Adams]

Pt-3 is just sitting in the front of our yard. Its a shame. Currently we are trying to get the owner to remove it from our yard or sell it to someone who actually wants to work on it.

Whats the chance of getting some photos?

[shade of knucklehead]

Current ones or older ones?

[Rick_NJ]

I would hate to see a piece of history get destroyed. Maybe the PT boat foundation in Fall River might be interested.

Please let us know what is happening with it. I am active in the military vehicle community and I can help spread the word.

Rick

[Mike DeHart]

Pics of PT-3 both old while she was new, and new while she is old. Also some history.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/05003.htm

[shade of knucklehead]

Those pics were from the last two years I believe...

[Rick_NJ]

PT-3 has been out of the water for at least 10 years. Would she even float at this point?

Rick

[shade of knucklehead]

There are large holes in the bottom so no.