Results 1 to 24 of 24

Thread: Wal Mart lights the way......

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Where else?
    Posts
    366

    Thumbs up Wal Mart lights the way......

    January 2, 2007
    The Energy Challenge
    Power-Sipping Bulbs Get Backing From Wal-Mart

    By MICHAEL BARBARO
    As a way to cut energy use, it could not be simpler. Unscrew a light bulb that uses a lot of electricity and replace it with one that uses much less.
    While it sounds like a promising idea, it turns out that the long-lasting, swirl-shaped light bulbs known as compact fluorescent lamps are to the nation’s energy problem what vegetables are to its obesity epidemic: a near perfect answer, if only Americans could be persuaded to swallow them.
    But now Wal-Mart Stores, the giant discount retailer, is determined to push them into at least 100 million homes. And its ambitions extend even further, spurred by a sweeping commitment from its chief executive, H. Lee Scott Jr., to reduce energy use across the country, a move that could also improve Wal-Mart’s appeal to the more affluent consumers the chain must win over to keep growing in the United States.
    “The environment,” Mr. Scott said, “is begging for the Wal-Mart business model.”
    It is the environmental movement’s dream: America’s biggest company, legendary for its salesmanship and influence with suppliers, encouraging 200 million shoppers to save energy.
    For all its power in retailing, though, Wal-Mart is meeting plenty of resistance — from light-bulb makers, competitors and consumers. To help turn the tide, it is even reaching out to unlikely partners like Google, Home Depot and Hollywood.
    A compact fluorescent has clear advantages over the widely used incandescent light — it uses 75 percent less electricity, lasts 10 times longer, produces 450 pounds fewer greenhouse gases from power plants and saves consumers $30 over the life of each bulb. But it is eight times as expensive as a traditional bulb, gives off a harsher light and has a peculiar appearance.
    As a result, the bulbs have languished on store shelves for a quarter century; only 6 percent of households use the bulbs today.
    Which is what makes Wal-Mart’s goal so wildly ambitious. If it succeeds in selling 100 million compact fluorescent bulbs a year by 2008, total sales of the bulbs in the United States would increase by 50 percent, saving Americans $3 billion in electricity costs and avoiding the need to build additional power plants for the equivalent of 450,000 new homes.
    That would send shockwaves — some intended, others not — across the lighting industry. Because compact fluorescent bulbs last up to eight years, giant manufacturers, like General Electric and Osram Sylvania, would sell far fewer lights. Because the bulbs are made in Asia, some American manufacturing jobs could be lost. And because the bulbs contain mercury, there is a risk of pollution when millions of consumers throw them away.
    Michael B. Petras, vice president of lighting at G.E., concedes that “the economics are better with incandescent bulbs.”
    All that has only spurred Wal-Mart to redouble its efforts — and, in typical fashion, it is asking those who may be hurt by the change to help achieve it.
    During an extraordinary meeting in Las Vegas in early October, competing bulb makers, academics, environmentalists and government officials met to ponder, at times uncomfortably, how Wal-Mart could sell more of the fluorescent lights.
    The proposals discussed at what Wal-Mart dubbed the “light bulb summit” ranged from the practical (advertise the bulbs on the back of a Coke 12-pack) to the quixotic (create a tax on incandescent bulbs to make them more expensive).
    Selling 100 million bulbs “is not a slam dunk by any stretch of the imagination,” Stephen Goldmacher, an executive at Royal Philips, the Dutch company that is one of the world’s largest light-bulb makers, told the group. “If this were easy, it would have happened already.”
    The attendees did not need to look far for evidence. Wal-Mart had asked the owners of the Mirage Hotel and Casino, where the conference was held, to commit to using the energy saving bulbs in its guest rooms in time for the meeting. The hotel politely declined.
    More than a year ago, Mr. Scott, the company’s chief executive, began reaching out to some of environmental groups, telling them that Wal-Mart, long regarded as an environmental offender, wanted to become a leader on issues like fuel efficiency and greenhouse gas emissions.
    Mr. Scott viewed such a move as a way to use Wal-Mart’s influence to improve the environment, cut costs and, of course, burnish the company’s bruised image. In September 2005, Mr. Scott and Andy Ruben, Wal-Mart’s vice president for strategy and sustainability, drove 6,000 feet to the Mount Washington Observatory in New Hampshire with Steve Hamburg, an environmental studies professor at Brown University, and Fred Krupp, the president of the advocacy group Environmental Defense.
    At the summit, where scientists measure climate change 24 hours a day, the men discussed global warming, acid rain, the hole in the ozone layer and what Wal-Mart could do about them.
    “You need to look at what is being sold on the shelf,” Mr. Hamburg recalled telling Mr. Scott over a dinner of turkey and mashed potatoes. He began talking excitedly about compact fluorescent bulbs. “Very few products,” he said, “are such a clear winner” for consumers and the environment.
    Soon after returning from the trip, Wal-Mart publicly embraced the bulbs with the zealotry of a convert. In meetings with suppliers, buyers for the chain laid out their plans: lower prices, expanding the shelf space dedicated to them and heavily promoting the technology.
    Light-bulb manufacturers, who sell millions of incandescent lights at Wal-Mart, immediately expressed reservations. In a December 2005 meeting with executives from General Electric, Wal-Mart’s largest bulb supplier, “the message from G.E. was, ‘Don’t go too fast. We have all these plants that produce traditional bulbs,’ ” said one person involved with the issue, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of an agreement not to speak publicly about the negotiations.
    The response from the Wal-Mart buyer was blunt, this person said. “We are going there,” the buyer said. “You decide if you are coming with us.”
    In the end, as Wal-Mart suppliers generally do, the bulb makers decided to come with the company.
    Philips, despite protests from packaging designers, agreed to change the name of its compact fluorescent bulbs from “Marathon” to “energy saver.” To keep up with swelling orders from the chain, Osram Sylvania took to flying entire planeloads of compact fluorescent bulbs from Asia to the United States.
    “When Wal-Mart sets its mind to something with a narrow objective like that, they are going to make it happen,” said Jim Jubb, vice president for consumer product sales at Sylvania.
    To explain the benefits of the energy-efficient bulbs, the retailer placed an education display case at the end of the aisle, where it occupied four feet of valuable selling space — an extravagance at Wal-Mart. Sales climbed even higher.
    In August 2006, the chain sold 3.94 million, nearly twice the 1.65 million it sold in August 2005, according to a person briefed on the numbers.
    But to reach 100 million, Wal-Mart has to do much more — and that, executives concede, is where the biggest challenges rest. In the fall, the company began reaching out to competing retailers, Internet companies and even filmmakers.
    The goal was to turn its sales campaign into a broader cultural movement.
    One proposal, headed by Lawrence Bender, who produced Al Gore’s 2006 documentary, “An Inconvenient Truth,” is to create a Web site that would track sales of compact fluorescent bulbs at major retailers like Walgreen’s and Target. The result would be a real-time map, with data collected by a third party, showing how much Americans have saved by using the energy-efficient bulbs.
    Mr. Ruben said such a map “helps consumers see this as something bigger than buying a bulb.”
    Then there is the mercury inside the bulbs, a problem Wal-Mart is working with the federal government and environmental groups to resolve, possibly by collecting the bulbs at its stores or off-site locations for recycling.
    In the end, though, the biggest obstacle to overcome is America’s love affair with cheap, familiar-looking incandescent bulbs — a habit 130 years in the making.
    “It has taken the American public forever to grasp this,” said Charlie Jerabek, the chief executive of Sylvania.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    7,488

    Default

    A most illuminating thread.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    North West Arkansas
    Posts
    50,072

    Default

    This'll galvanize the Wal-Mart bashers into pointing out the greater amount of energy used to make the new lights and problems in land fills created by the new bulbs and that they use a far larger amount of glass and that conventional lamp shades won't work on them and that they are not instant on...no doubt causing death and destruction in "children"...all the while paying substandard wages to the brie eating, white wine drinking beautiful people.

    Oh wait! Galvanize suggests zinc which is verboten among the enlightened...zinc must have been ferried to this side of the Styx by the Republicans and their snarling minions.
    Last edited by Phillip Allen; 01-02-2007 at 05:56 AM.
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    N. Fal on Cape Cod
    Posts
    12,357

    Default

    They are instant on. Even at 62 degrees, the temperature of my house in the winter.

    And standard lampshades can easily go on them if the shape of the top is slightly modified. Even if it isn't the lampshade on my bedside lamp goes on mine.

    And a recycling program could recapture the mercury, or further research could work out something else.

    But creating any product that lasts a long time is a problem for the American business model, that's for sure.

    If there's a market there's a way.
    “We have tracked the economic health of the nation for a long time. The reason we track those things is that the government is full of economists, not psychologists. If we know money doesn’t buy happiness, why are we optimizing for money?”

    Adam Kramer, PhD candidate, Psychology, U. of OR.


    Photographer of sailing and sailboats
    And other things, too.
    http://www.landsedgephoto.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    North West Arkansas
    Posts
    50,072

    Default

    BTW...I bought my first package of these "new" bulbs a few months ago...the light is not as bright so I made up for it by getting the highest wattage I could find commensurate with space available. They are not instant on either though the delay doesn't bother me much. I plan on buying more in the future as my ordinary bulbs burn out.
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
    Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Posts
    4,887

    Default

    They make those bulbs with an outer 'skin' that is standard 'bulb shape'. I put them in all of my outdoor lights and glad I did. They look like a standard bulb. I have the ones shaped like floods in my kitchen and they work great. They are lasting many times longer than standard, my power bill is also reduced. They don't get as hot, so from that perspective they are also safer.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Somewhere in South Central PA
    Posts
    2,723

    Default

    We've switched about two-thirds of all the bulbs in our house to these. The outdoor ones, and a few of the highly visible ones on clear glass fixtures in the bathrooms and over the dining room table are still conventional. I like the CFLs and would use more if my spouse would let me. I've replaced, maybe, one in the last 10 years. They are a lot cooler so the AC doesn't have to work as hard in the summer.

    -- Brian

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    N. Fal on Cape Cod
    Posts
    12,357

    Default

    Anybody seen the right size for track lighting? Probably would require the lens on the light fixture instead of on the bulb.

    I want to change the hall light to track so I can light the framed photographs on the hall walls.
    “We have tracked the economic health of the nation for a long time. The reason we track those things is that the government is full of economists, not psychologists. If we know money doesn’t buy happiness, why are we optimizing for money?”

    Adam Kramer, PhD candidate, Psychology, U. of OR.


    Photographer of sailing and sailboats
    And other things, too.
    http://www.landsedgephoto.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Posts
    4,887

    Default

    That would depend upon the base that your new lighting would require. They are different.

    A few years ago, our local power supplier had coupons out at all of the magor retialers. I got nearly all of my bulbs for FREE. The rebate coupons were redeemed at the counter and covered all but the sales tax.

    Some information
    http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=cfls.pr_cfls
    Last edited by capt jake; 01-02-2007 at 07:43 AM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    FL. USA
    Posts
    6,106

    Default

    I figured LED technology was going to be the next new rage in lighting and energy savings.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Location
    Armada, MI, USA
    Posts
    73

    Default

    I've been using them in my workshop and basement for a few years. None has burned out yet. The first ones were terribly expensive; something like $12.99 or 14.99 EACH. Recently I bought a 4-pack for $7.98. This will make it a lot easier to get people to try it. The new ones also seem to have fewer restrictions regarding where they can be used. The biggest problem with them, however, is their incompatibility with dimmers. My house has ceiling fixtures in pretty much every room and most are fitted with dimmer switches. I heard somewhere that some of the newer compacts are dimmable but I haven't seen anything official on it. Anyone know?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Sunrise FL
    Posts
    7,155

    Default

    a few years back when I wasn't homeless I changed all my lights over to these. I had I think 3 fixtures that I had to change to use them.......electric bill dropped from about $130. a month to around $45.......well worth the cost.
    Celebrating on the field of battle acknowledges your opponents superiority

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    cosby tenn
    Posts
    5,788

    Default

    We switched to that style bulb in our MAll several years ago.To start we had each bulb dated as it was placed into service to get an idea how they held up
    It's not unusual for the crew to change bulbs that are 3 or 4 years old.Our old standard bulbs never help up that well.
    We had reservations about these bulbs due to the higher cost per bulb,but the lower wattage + the energy savings far outweighs the cost per bulb.
    As much as I dislike WM, I have to agree that at least they are money savers in the long run,according to our experience.
    One small problem with them tho, we have noticed as the bulbs get older they dont throw out as much light as they did when new.And they are much slower to warm up or throw maximum light out when the bulbs are cold, (as when used outside"
    Last edited by geeman; 01-02-2007 at 10:00 AM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    12,458

    Default

    The Walmart here was built with lots of skylights in the roof. They have a system that monitors light levels in various sections of the store and turns the lights on and off in different sections depending on how much natural light is coming in through the skylights. On a sunny day there's not a light on in the store, and none is needed.

    It's a great system, could be a real energy saver and should be the new standard for similar new construction.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    N 43 54.2'; W 070 24.6'
    Posts
    2,805

    Default

    I am changing out the incandescent bulbs at my transmitter sites with CFLs as the incandescent bulbs die. After 2 years of constant-on on the oldest ones, I have only lost 1 so far, and that was a case of infant mortality. (dies in less than a week) I have also put them in the track lights in my studios, which greatly reduces the heat load in the room. The only gripe people have with them is they cant be dimmed like a conventional bulb.
    Bill R

    There was supposed to be an earth shattering KABOOM!

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Bright's Grove, ON, Canada
    Posts
    8,839

    Default What is Walmart bringing to the table?

    What did I miss? I've been reading this on my Balckberry (small screen) so I may have missed something.

    What is Walmart bringing to the table? Are they going to sell them as lost leaders or just force the vendors to lower their prices?
    Allan of the Grove - S/V Laura Ellen, 1937 Gaff Schooner
    http://aylard.ca http://bluenosejr.com
    "never send a ferret to do a weasel's job.."

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Where else?
    Posts
    366

    Default

    Theyll be selling them at the lowest retail price in the country- and will be promoting them with a good sized set up on the store floors providing information on how they will help the environment in order to educate the public.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    7,488

    Default

    Dutch, there's a cleanup in aisle 9.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Where else?
    Posts
    366

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Milo Christensen
    Dutch, there's a cleanup in aisle 9.
    smatter milo? your Depends spill over again?

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    7,488

    Default

    Nahh, some guy in a wheelchair had a problem when he farted.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Grosse Pointe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    10,155

    Default

    Interesting move. Walmart seems to be looking at about $500 million or so in new profits from the bulbs, assuming it meets its sales goals. Don't know why they seem to sell well in Asia, considering their cost at 10x conventional bulbs. The mercury issue is significant, as the light manufacturers mentioned have spent hundreds of millions meeting new standards for mercury-free lighting recently. Apparently, some lights must be mercury free, but the high-volume flourescents do not. I don't understand he exemption.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    orbiting Seattle at a safe distance
    Posts
    1,274

    Default

    I haven't bought any in the last couple of years, but after 10 years of trying them in various locations (all at least semi-rural with "dirty" power) I found that they lasted LESS long than a regular bulb.

    Katey

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Baltimore Maryland
    Posts
    7,195

    Default

    I've been using them. I just buy them at the local hardware store rather than Dutch's beloved Wal Mart.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    cosby tenn
    Posts
    5,788

    Default

    Was in Walmart getting wifes meds today, saw the new display for hillbillies. Its a bit bigger but at this point not all I had expected , at least not yet.

Similar Threads

  1. Where to mount the running lights?
    By kc8pql in forum Building / Repair
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 01-05-2013, 09:55 AM
  2. Wal Mart saves the Oceans
    By Dryer lint in forum The Bilge
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 12-08-2006, 02:17 PM
  3. Trailer lights question? Anybody? HELP!
    By Eric D in forum Building / Repair
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 10-08-2006, 07:27 PM
  4. LED trailer lights
    By Brian Palmer in forum Tools / Materials / Techniques / Products
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 09-14-2006, 04:30 PM
  5. Anyone know where to get bronze running lights?
    By lakeshore j. in forum Tools / Materials / Techniques / Products
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-25-2006, 12:43 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •