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Thread: Rowing dories !!??

  1. #36
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    Very nice Rangley, now there is a rowboat.
    Abe, if you ever wanted to play around, shaw and tenney sells a set of rushton outrigger oarlocks that will exstend the beam by 8 inches, 4 inches on each side and you can move up to 8 & 1/2 or even 9 ft. spoon bills, and that boat wll fly.

    Jim's post above on the firefly, has only 2ft. & 10 inch beam, but with the outriggers will put the points between the oarlocks around 4 & 1/2 ft.+ and use about 8 & 1/2 ft. oars. The longer oars will lay at a lower angle to the water and you will pull at stomach level on the oars. Where as devlin's oarling uses only 7 ft. oars, and with a high sided boat the oars will be pulled at shoulder heigth, very uncomfortable and strenious.

    Longer oars at a lower angle, pulling at the stomach level, as well as crossing the hands will change the muscles used in rowing and be much more comfortable as well as more power with a whole lot less effort. 8ft. to 9 ft. oars are good oars.
    Last edited by RonW; 12-30-2006 at 11:59 AM.

  2. #37
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    Thumbs up

    Pleasant discussion.

    I made an error. The beam on the Rangeley is 48" and I will add it has rather low freeboard.

    I have tried out different oars from 7 to 9' , visited the Shaw and Tenney factory for a first hand opinion, considered cost and have decided to stay with the traditional Rangeley oar lock mounts. The Rangeley design evolved over many decades and I have limited my changes.

    I will agree in principal that a beam of less than 40" should have some sort of outrigger.


    abe

  3. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Hunter
    I have not built one, but the Gloucester Gull is a joy to row and can handle any conditions that an even somewhat insane individual might choose to row in.

    I vote for the Gull too. I have had one for over 25 years and its still a fun boat.

  4. #39
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    See my brilliant entry under Gloucester Gull or Whisp?

    PL

  5. #40
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    More freindly debate with Ron.

    IMHO properly balanced oars should mean properly balanced for you, and the goal you have in mind as you row.

    I use 9' dory oars on my row boat regularly. By many standards they are too large for the beam of the boat. They are also heavy. Those are the disadvantages.

    On the plus side they give me a great workout both cardio and upper body strength. I get stronger and when I pull hard the boat really goes.

    I also own a pair of shaw and Tenny spoons that are either 6" or 1' smaller. They row the boat with very little effort, and I can row with them for a long time, especially if I am usually using the 9's on a regular basis. They allow me to handle chop a bit better than the dory oars bexause they are lighter and more responsive. On the down side they don't give me a workout much at all.

    As an aside Shaw and Tenny reccomend even smaller oars based on my boats beam, but I like to go fast so I got the longer ones.

    Ron what do you row, what kind of oars do you use, and why?
    Yachting, the only sport where you get to be a mechanic, electrician, plumber and carpenter

  6. #41
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    Well Tom on the friendly debate, over the years I have played with a lot of varous rowboats and oars from 6&1/2 ft. to 10 ft. And by no means am I a sculling rower, although I think it would be fun.
    Presently I have a 18 ft. river dory with 9 / 10 ft. oars.
    But mostly use a little 6 horse 4 stroke, simply because it is too much work to row. The 9 fters, aren't bad, but the 10 fter's will give you a real workout.But it is built heavy for rough water fishing. So I went with the heavy carlise rafting oars with a exstension and counterbalance weights.
    What I am referring to as balance, is balancing the inboard weight of the oar to the outboard weight, so the oars at least come close to balancing on the pivot point of the oarlock. This is where culler advocated square loomed oars with the square loom being only on the inboard part of the oar to help balance the oar.I have drilled out wooden oars and put steel rebar in to help balance, and as I said earlier the oars I now have ,have counterbalanced weights that slide over the oars and weigh about 2 lbs as I recall.The weights slide so as to put the weight where you want it.
    Back in the mid 90"s old town produced for only a couple years a drift boat they called it, with pretty much the same dimensions and shape as the adirondack guideboat. Of course I bought one, and started with 6&1/2 ft oars, immediately went to 7 ft. oars, and then exstended them to 7ft. 4 inches, which wasn't bad, but I still formed the opinion from rowing it, that it needed outriggers on the oarlocks and to artifically exstend the beam to about 48 inches and go with a 8 ft oar.It had a 40 inch beam.
    Shaw and tenney's formula is 7/25 or basically the old 2/7 rule of inboard length to outboard length. But these narrow beamed boats carry such short oars, and if they are high sided the situation is worse by making the oars row at such a high angle that it is very uncomfortable to the rower. So small beamed boats need outriggers to increase the oar length and decrease the angle at which you are pulling on the oars.Every boat is going to be different as to what does and doesn't work, and high sided boats cause more problems.
    Thats where I say in my opinion if a person wanted a short boat like 13 or 14 ft, they would be better off looking at other designs that have wider beams, about 4 ft beams like in a swampscott dory or similar designs, whether then reducing a big dory down and creating a unbalanced boat that is hard to set up with oars, due to the narrow beam and high sides, creating to high of a angle on the oars and not being comfortable to row.
    In looking around I was surprised to see how many rowboats paul gartside has, and most of them carry a 4 & 1/2 ft. beam, but they are also heavier. Of which I have also formed the opinion that a heavier boat will carry itself better through heavy waves and wind conditions. So everyone picks their own medicine and decides what works for them and their conditions. A calm lake is easy to cope with.

    http://www.gartsideboats.com/cat.php#rowboats

  7. #42
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    The counter balanced oars that we set up for the Gardner / LFH boat at Mystic are some of the nicest I have ever used. We used rolled up lead set into holes in the squared off looms set off for maybe a couple of pounds of weight in hand.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  8. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by RonW
    Every boat is going to be different as to what does and doesn't work, and high sided boats cause more problems.
    The conditions will also show what does and doesn't work. If you are rowing a dory offshore then you will praise the high sides when the nasties roll in and threaten your life. Rowing in rough conditions is not pleasant or efficient but it happens if you row in unprotected waters for any distance. I think this thread began in regards to dories... and now we're saying "high sided boats cause problems"? Where's the dory bigot police?

    Happy new year y'all. This site drives me nuts. But like the morbid curiosity that makes me stare at a horrible accident, I can't stop looking.

  9. #44
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    posted by bill childs.-and now we're saying "high sided boats cause problems"? Where's the dory bigot police?
    Bill you are doing selective reading and improperly stating what my comments are.
    -High sided and (small beamed) boats create improper oar angles.
    Now restore these minaturized dory's back to their original sizes, and all is well..There is your dory police......

  10. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by RonW
    Now restore these minaturized dory's back to their original sizes, and all is well..There is your dory police......
    No need to restore anything Ron. Some of us actually prefer the weight and proportions of these boats. It's very easy to configure them with a set of properly balanced oars and foot braces so that they move right along with a minimum of fuss.

    While living on the Oregon coast I had the pleasant experience of being visited by the USCG while offshore in these "minaturized dorys" many times. They too had no experience with these boats and didn't understand the level of safety and comfort I had grown to trust in these conditions over time.

    If you have something else you prefer to row in other conditions that's fine, boats and geography are very diverse, but please don't put something down just because you don't have a use for it or have no experience with it in the conditions it was designed for.

  11. #46
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    Now there is a pleasant comeback.

    Happy new year to one and all.

    Let's all build a wooden boat this year and save the world from fibergla$$.

  12. #47
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    Default Other dories

    I did not know that the thread I started would initiate such an interesting debate. So I have decided to spice it up with some designed we did not mentioned yet. Still rowing dories, but some can be sailed, with fishy names and all from Iain Oughtred :
    Blackfish, http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/detai...Name=Blackfish
    Mackerel, http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/detai...?Name=Mackerel
    Anberjack, http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/detai...Name=Amberjack
    John Dory, http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/detai...Name=John+Dory
    Skerrieskiff 15 and 17, http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/detai...kerrieskiff+15

    They look fine to my taste, from bank to swampscott style and the lapstrake building should add to the salty look

  13. #48
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    Given what you have written before and the list you just posted I would go with the John dory. It will row fast and easy, and if you row it upwind you can sail it home. (Always row first and sail after your tired )

    All these boats have merits, but on a basic level if you gain sailing performance you lose rowing performance. If I am reading your posts correctly you really want to row with some sailing.

    The Amberjack looks like a really nice boat for people who want to do both, or maybe sail more and use oars for backup. But it will not row as easy or fast as the John Dory.
    Yachting, the only sport where you get to be a mechanic, electrician, plumber and carpenter

  14. #49
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    Default Other rowing dory : Laurel Dory

    I found this Dory plan on the net by a Canadian that lives in BC. I emailed him about his design and he gave me a complete information about the Laurel Dory :
    His site: http://westlakeboats.ca/
    Laurel Dory testing : http://www.westlakeboats.ca/Laurelcruise

  15. #50
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    Default dory

    I would suggest Bolger's Stretch Dory. Over the years, I have built 3 of these. The LOA is 19'6" Beam- 4'2" weight as little as 125 lbs. Capacity 1000 lbs. This is a high volume dory that rows easily with 1-2 people. Plans can be obtained from Common Sense Designs

  16. #51
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    It's Common Sense Boats (CSB).

    The business has changed hands several times since Phil Bolger designed the plans they are selling, and there has been a dispute between CSB and Bolger. As I understand it, Bolger claimed that the current owners owe him royalties, but they claimed they own the plans outright and refused to pay.

    Unless someone can confirm that this dispute has been settled to Bolger's satisfaction, I strongly urge that you do NOT buy plans for any Bolger design from CSB.
    Last edited by Steve Paskey; 01-08-2007 at 11:05 AM.

  17. #52
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    Smile Choice made : Not Dory but

    I finally decided to buy John Welsford's Seagull/Mollyhawk plans. The dories appealed to me but I settled for a boat that can take more load for the same given length than Gloucester gull and its stretched version, and that still looks nice.
    I want to thank all of you for the quality of the information you provided.
    Happy boating to all...

  18. #53
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    Which one? seagull or mohawk?

    Nice choice by the way, lots of good attributes.
    Yachting, the only sport where you get to be a mechanic, electrician, plumber and carpenter

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Rowing dories !!??

    Quote Originally Posted by rbgarr View Post
    If fitness is your goal, rowing a non-sliding seat boat is not a very effective way to reach it. Most of your effort will be expended by your arms, with only a bit by your back and abdomen. To get or stay fit, you'd need to row a sliding seat boat.
    Ben Fuller has designed a short sliding seat suitable for fixed seat rowing craft. There's a description of it in WB's 'Small Boats Monthly': https://smallboatsmonthly.com/articl...-sliding-seat/
    If I had a dollar for every girl who found me unattractive, eventually they would find me attractive.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Rowing dories !!??

    I am disappointed it is over so soon. I built a sail and oar boat with fixed rowing seats, because sliding seats complicate such a boat, but in a pure rowing boat I would like to have a sliding seat. We also have a St. Ayels Skiff in the club, a 22ft. Rowing boat for 4 rowers and a cox. It is cheaper and more pleasant then going to a fitness club and I need some social pressure to show up at the training. Frank

  21. #56

    Default Re: Rowing dories !!??

    IMG_8070cr2.jpg

    A new picture of my 16' Nova Scotian. It's a bit heavier but the builder says it rows quite well.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Jeff Spira


  22. #57
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    Default Re: Rowing dories !!??

    Hey, that's me /\ up there!!!!
    Funny, just tripping around on line here tonight thinking about building and I come across Jeff's comment with my boat picture of me, the old fella, and my two dogs. The things you find online.
    Also, I do love this boat. And I use it for exercise, pleasure, exploring... And mostly I built it because I wanted to build a boat.
    Jeff's plans are simple and present a gratifying project for the novice. Sometimes when I poke around this forum I get awed by the skill here. Almost to the point of being discouraged. But, keep up the good work folks. Some beautiful accomplishments here.

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