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Thread: Owner's Manual For a Radial Arm Saw

  1. #1
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    Default Owner's Manual For a Radial Arm Saw

    Hey everyone:

    I was given a radial arm saw by a friend of a friend who was moving into a smaller workshop and no longer had space for it. (Fortunately, I've moved into a much larger shop and now I do have space for it!) I've been searching the internet, and so far I have had no luck in finding a owner's manual for it. Most searches send me to ServiceNet, where I can only find information on Delta RA saws.

    This one is a DeWalt / Black & Decker model 7770, 10 inch radial arm saw.

    An leads you can throw my way would be much appreciated.

    Thanks in advance

    Jeff
    \"A little too tall, coulda used a few pounds...\"

  2. #2

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    here ya go:
    http://www.owwm.com/files/PDF/BlackD...D7770-3427.pdf

    Or if it's the really old one (big file):
    http://www.owwm.com/files/PDF/BlackDecker/BD7700.pdf

    If either of these work for you, pop over to http://www.owwm.com and toss a few $$ into their coffers - I'm sure they'll be appreciated.

    Rob
    Last edited by Rob Stokes, N. Vancouver; 12-12-2006 at 05:51 PM.

  3. #3
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    Thank you, Mr. Stokes

    Next Question:

    The motor can be wired either 110 V or 220 V. I see on the label that doubling the voltage cuts the current in half. Now, since Power = Current * Voltage, it stands to reason, that the motor will not develop more power at 220V as opposed to 110 V.

    So is there an advantage to running the motor at 220V over 110V ?

    Thanks again,

    Jeff
    \"A little too tall, coulda used a few pounds...\"

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    You know the one about "all machines are dangerous" ,don't you Jeff. A healthy attitude to have.
    I don't know your experience with em so ignore me if I'm ahead of myself but actually ,some machines are more dangerous than others and radial arm saws can be exactly that to the uninitiated.

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    John...I couldn't agree more.

    My experience is probably more than average only by means of the fact that these are becoming rather obsolete machines for the average woodworker. I used on in middleschool shop, and then 15 years later when my dad opened his millwork shop, I spent the better part of a couple of weeks cutting stairtreads by the semi-truckload. Of course, that was a hole different beast: Old old old Dewalt. 5 hp, 16 inch blade (With a .25 inch kerf!!!) By the time I was done with the job, the kerf through the fence had eroded to over an inch wide from all the chips flying through it.

    Personally, I think that old beast was a lot safer than the small shop model that is sitting in the barn. That huge blade and all the cast iron translated into a lot of inertia that worked in the users favor. (That and the constant mindset that this thing would cut through a Buick if you gave it the chance!)

    Mine is going to get set dead square to the fence and be used for cross cuts and dados only. All the other work is probably better done on a compound miter saw.

    This kind of get back to my second question too:

    If 220V would cause the motor to bog down less, then would that make for a safer tool. As the motor slows, torque increases and the user is more likely to do something dumb. Definitely not a good combination.

    So, is there an advantage to 220 over 110?

    Jeff
    \"A little too tall, coulda used a few pounds...\"

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    Plenty experience then.Good. Its that whole car on jacks in gear, motor running ,aiming at you thing that particularly gets my attention.

    Can't answer the voltage thing , we only have 220 and three phase here. I'll be quiet again now.

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    220 in that application will basically use 1/2 the power (less $$). HP ratings stay the same (In my understanding). I just bought a band saw that I re-wired from 220 to 110 smiply for ease of installation. Once I get a permanant loaction ,I may consider changing back to 220.

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    Watts=volts x amps
    Your saw will draw twice as many amps at half the voltage.
    Your electric bill shows the price in Kilo watts,so it it's all the same.
    When you feed it 220 you use two hots instead of a single at 120,thus the double pole breaker.IIRC this is why it will have more jam.
    It also means that you can connect it with smaller gauge wire.
    R
    "Now Ron,don't you do anything stupid!" - Grandma B.

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    Quote
    It also means that you can connect it with smaller gauge wire".

    The primary reason to wire a shop for 220 v is to reduce the ampere demand and thus the wire size. For the Black and Decker saw there isn't much advantage because it will run on a 15 amp circuit. But a 5 hp motor would require wire much larger (read more difficult to handle.)

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    The motor will run cooler at 220 vs 110

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    The main advantage to wireing a motor to a higher voltage is that you cut current in half... the more current you draw threw the wires the more voltage drop you get. A motor draws much more current during startup, the longer a motor takes to get up to speed the shorter the life of the motor will be. once the motor has started and is running at syncronous speed the power (HP) differance is neglagable, if the wire size is capable of delivering the current the motor is drawing underload. If the wire size is too small you can actually pull a syncronous motor out of sync and it will stall, which is very bad for your motor.
    Chris

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    One time I attempted to run a small air compressor on a 100 foot 16 ga. extension cord. The voltage drop was so great that it wouldn't start. It did just fine on a 14 ga. 50 foot extension cord.

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    Quote Originally Posted by capt jake
    220 in that application will basically use 1/2 the power (less $$). HP ratings stay the same (In my understanding). I just bought a band saw that I re-wired from 220 to 110 smiply for ease of installation. Once I get a permanant loaction ,I may consider changing back to 220.
    Nope, not quite like that. Power is measured in Watts. When you buy power from the power store, you buy it in Watts (kilowatts actually) with a time function attached (100 watts used for an hour is 1Kw/H). My power recently went to $0.063 per kW/h btw, but that's another story... A Watt is basically the voltage multiplied by the current. There's other parameters that go into it as well (power factors, motor effiiciency etc.) , but we can ignore those for now.

    Let's look at the saw and for the purposes of discussion, let's assume it's a 1.5HP motor and let's also assume we live in a perfect world. While we're at it, I know that 1 HP = 746 Watts , but let's make it 750 for nice round numbers.

    So, if 1HP is 750 wats, 1.5HP is 1125 Watts. If we assume your household voltage is 110VAC, and because Watts is volts times Amps, we can divide the Watts by the Volts to get the current draw (in Amps). 1125Watts/110VAC = 10.22 Amps.

    So, if your saw is wired to 110VAC, it's going to draw 10.25 Amps..

    But if we double the voltage and the Watts stays the same (which it will), you now have 1/2 the current draw or 5.11 Amps.

    So, if your saw is wired to 220VAC, it's going to draw 5.1 Amps

    Amps is current and current is work. More work, more heat. More current, more heat. cut the current in half, you cut the heat down. Motors don't like heat so a cooler motor will run longer..

    BUT - a motor wired to 220VAC will give you no more power or output than a motor wired to 110VAC. And a motor wired to 220VAC will cost exactly the same as a motor run on 110VAC.

    A motor wired to 220VAC may start faster than the same motor wired to 110VAC - but that's if you use the same wires to feed power to the saw. In that cse, the wires don't have to deleiver as much current at start-up and subsequentlly don't function as a choke.

    Clear as mud? But with that all said, if it's possible to run a motor on higher voltage, you should because there's less current draw, there's less heat and it's a lot easier on your household wiring. But you get no more power and you won't save a nickle doing it.

    AND- it's way cooler when the guys are borrowing your workbench for a beer holder to point at the "new" radial arm saw and saw "see that (sniff...) - that there saw's runnin' two-twenty!".

    Rob

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    Thanks fellas. This has all been great.

    I might have a line on a 4 head moulder too. Can't wait to see what kind of talk is generated over the topic of a 3 phase converter.

    In regards to Rob's last comment, I'm reminded of my favorite line from "Mr. Mom" when Michael Keaton is asked if he's going to wire the new addition 110 or 220. His reply...

    "220, 221...whatever it takes."



    Jeff
    \"A little too tall, coulda used a few pounds...\"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Stokes, N. Vancouver
    Nope, not quite like that. Power is measured in Watts. When you buy power from the power store, you buy it in Watts (kilowatts actually) with a time function attached (100 watts used for an hour is 1Kw/H). My power recently went to $0.063 per kW/h btw, but that's another story... A Watt is basically the voltage multiplied by the current. There's other parameters that go into it as well (power factors, motor effiiciency etc.) , but we can ignore those for now.

    Let's look at the saw and for the purposes of discussion, let's assume it's a 1.5HP motor and let's also assume we live in a perfect world. While we're at it, I know that 1 HP = 746 Watts , but let's make it 750 for nice round numbers.

    So, if 1HP is 750 wats, 1.5HP is 1125 Watts. If we assume your household voltage is 110VAC, and because Watts is volts times Amps, we can divide the Watts by the Volts to get the current draw (in Amps). 1125Watts/110VAC = 10.22 Amps.

    So, if your saw is wired to 110VAC, it's going to draw 10.25 Amps..

    But if we double the voltage and the Watts stays the same (which it will), you now have 1/2 the current draw or 5.11 Amps.

    So, if your saw is wired to 220VAC, it's going to draw 5.1 Amps

    Amps is current and current is work. More work, more heat. More current, more heat. cut the current in half, you cut the heat down. Motors don't like heat so a cooler motor will run longer..

    BUT - a motor wired to 220VAC will give you no more power or output than a motor wired to 110VAC. And a motor wired to 220VAC will cost exactly the same as a motor run on 110VAC.

    A motor wired to 220VAC may start faster than the same motor wired to 110VAC - but that's if you use the same wires to feed power to the saw. In that cse, the wires don't have to deleiver as much current at start-up and subsequentlly don't function as a choke.

    Clear as mud? But with that all said, if it's possible to run a motor on higher voltage, you should because there's less current draw, there's less heat and it's a lot easier on your household wiring. But you get no more power and you won't save a nickle doing it.

    AND- it's way cooler when the guys are borrowing your workbench for a beer holder to point at the "new" radial arm saw and saw "see that (sniff...) - that there saw's runnin' two-twenty!".

    Rob
    That makes a lot more sense to me now. Thanks!

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    Rob Stokes did what looks to me like a nice job of laying out the differences between 220 and 110. I just thought I would add that if I had a suitable 110 circuit already available, I don't think I'd run a new 220 volt circuit if the motor is 1 hp or less. It just does not seem like the advantages would be worth it on a motor that small.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Hooke
    Rob Stokes did what looks to me like a nice job of laying out the differences between 220 and 110. I just thought I would add that if I had a suitable 110 circuit already available, I don't think I'd run a new 220 volt circuit if the motor is 1 hp or less. It just does not seem like the advantages would be worth it on a motor that small.
    That was my conclusion on this 2 hp motor. After I use it a while and find a more suitable location, I may run a new circuit.

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    It's funny you should mention that. One of the reasons for my asking this is that I'm about to starting wiring the barn! I've already got the layout planned, so now I'm starting to figure out where to put the power and how much of it.

    I guess it's time for a new thread on this...

    Next Question: Lighting.

    Jeff
    \"A little too tall, coulda used a few pounds...\"

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    Default Radial arm saw manuals

    I've had my old Craftsman RAS for almost 25 years now, and it's been a good and versatile tool. The manual is long gone, but adjustments are simple. Fine Woodworking has run several articles on the subject, and IIRC may have one of their books on the subject. The text I have is entitled Radial Arm Saw Techniques by Roger Cliffe. Published by Sterling-good general text, shows the lighter Dewalt, Craftsman and Delta machines, with some mention of the heavy Delta.

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    Good rule of thumb to use is 220 over three horse, Starting is easier under three so its a judgment call. When wiring a shop I always sub panel with enough space for lots of 220 equipment. I might not use it but its good to have. Its always good practice to balance your 115 volt loads across both hot legs. I see it a lot were one leg is doing double duty than the other. With extra panel space it gets easy.
    If a piece of equipment can run 220 its a good choice to use it.
    If you think of how the motor windings are split you can see it will run cooler and handle torque loads more efficiently. Just my two cents.
    The other good option is put yourself together a rotary phase converter, then you can run most three phase equipment , lot of three phase shop tools go on the cheap. I missed an auction That I wanted to bid on last week. A huge delta table saw in mint condition went for three hundred bucks because it was three phase. I am sorry I missed it now because with a phase converter I would have been in slick city. I bought a mint Bridgeport for fifty bucks at an auction because the name plate said 460, I took out my leatherman and pulled the peckerhead when no one was looking and found it was high/low voltage. No one bid on it and it was by far the best piece with tooling included to make it sell. Ran it five years and sold it for two thousand private sale. If you look deals are out there.

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    Bwolf,

    If you're going to be wiring a "new" shop, at the least, wire for 220 30 amp and maybe for 3 phase and plan on converter. Once you have the 3 ph, lots of options open up.

    For plans checkout the OWWM and American Machinist sites.

    I recently got a middle age (early 80's) DeWalt RAS, 14 in blade, 5 hp motor, 3 ph. Will wire and do the converter thing next spring/summer. Can't wait to see/hear this beast run.

    As for the $300 Delta saw (Unisaw?), can't find em here, at least in on-line auctions. Most lately have gone between $500-$600, 1 vs 3 ph doesn't seem to matter. I've been overbid 4-5 times in the last 6 months, someday I'll get one.

    Dan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Lindberg
    Bwolf,

    If you're going to be wiring a "new" shop, at the least, wire for 220 30 amp and maybe for 3 phase and plan on converter. Once you have the 3 ph, lots of options open up.

    For plans checkout the OWWM and American Machinist sites.

    I recently got a middle age (early 80's) DeWalt RAS, 14 in blade, 5 hp motor, 3 ph. Will wire and do the converter thing next spring/summer. Can't wait to see/hear this beast run.

    As for the $300 Delta saw (Unisaw?), can't find em here, at least in on-line auctions. Most lately have gone between $500-$600, 1 vs 3 ph doesn't seem to matter. I've been overbid 4-5 times in the last 6 months, someday I'll get one.

    Dan
    Keep a look out for commercial /industrial auctions. I get flyer's from time to time for auctions all the way to Maryland. I used to go to many as I bought equipment for the company I worked for. Some were wide open and nobody was bidding, others I would find a half a dozen Idiots driving the price up and paying far more than what its worth. I was bidding on a Miller gas powered welder once and this Idiot kept bidding it up. I stopped the instant it went past my ceiling but him and this other clown kept going. When it was over I showed him the same unit brand new in the Graingers catalog for $300 less than he paid for a four year old one. Best satisfaction I could get and he stiffed the auctioneer. I figured those are the same guys that keep casino's in business.
    Just keep trying, rainy days are usually losers for indoor auctions.
    I get the best deals mid summer on the late week ones, I guess everybody hits the beach then.

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    Thanks for the tips, I'll keep looking.
    It seems like maybe there are more old machines offered on either coast then here in the midwest?? Don't know.

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    Jeff, One simple thing to make a small radial arm saw perform much much safer and cut better is to fit it with a negative rake blade.
    Forrest and Freud both make these. The Forrest blade I think is called the chopmaster. I have one of each and they both work well.
    The negative rake keeps the saw from trying to walk through your wood and or grab too much and bog down. Put the new blade on and it cuts like butter, no pulling. Try it, you'll like it.
    Gary

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    Very cool. I'll definitely check that out.
    \"A little too tall, coulda used a few pounds...\"

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    I'd expected more comment on how to use a RAS here.
    I owned a similar tool for a number of years and concluded that the only operations that were (reasonably) safe were 90-degree crosscuts and dados.
    There's a reason they're extinct in the market.

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    Default RAS

    Or maybe not.

    "There's a reason they're extinct in the market."

    In the big stuff, for better or worse, DeWalt evolved as the design of choise. DeWalt ended up getting bought by Black + Decker, who appearently decided to no longer offer machinery, just hand power tools. They sold the rights to the DeWalt RAS design to a the old DeWalt management, who went under and who then sold the rights to the "Original Saw Company", who to this day build and sell DeWalt RAS, just badged as OSC.

    Also, the Wolfe Company buys, rebuilds/manufacturers old DeWalt RAS and resells them.

    Both companies are located in Iowa.

    http://www.originalsaw.com/index.htm

    http://www.wolfemachinery.com/

    Disclaimer: I recently got a 14" DeWalt 5 hp monster that I can't wait to see/hear run and may be biased.

    Dan

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    The big DeWalt (or whatever) used in lumberyards and larger shops for cutting stock to length is a very good tool for that purpose. What's (justly) gone extinct are the hobbyist grade tools that swiveled every which way but wouldn't hold any of those settings reliably. They were sold as doing many sawing, drilling, sanding and molding operations and the only one they did well was the simple crosscut.

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    the reason they're extinct to some extent these days has much more to do with the cost of manufacturing a good radial saw than anything else. the older dewalts, turners and those built for big commercial use are much more robust in thier castings and much heavier duty in thier trollies, all necessary to make them track without any side slop. any of them built in recent years that are more or less affordable to guys like us are sloppy junk, even when adjusted right. another factor is that a good radial has to have a powerfull motor that won't bog and try to climb up the cut, another expensive option that prices it out of the small shop catagory. a truly good radial will do anything a good table will do(and more) with as much ease and accuracy, but they stopped making good ones a long time ago.

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    MR,

    See the links above.
    But be warned, the new stuff is EXPENSIVE.
    I paid $175 for my DeWalt, a similar model/design (3531-03) at OSC is about $5100.

    Dan

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    hey dan... neat stuff, but as i stated,...costlty..... that's not to say there is certainly a justification to the cost, in a big shop, but it has to pay for itself somehow and most shops wouldn't miss not having one with a good table saw and big sliding miter for around the same combined expence.
    the big ones are surley nice to work with, smooth and effortless cutting. i had a freind when i was younger (actually one of my dad's freinds) that had a big walker-turner in his cabinet shop. i always marveled at smooth and controlable it cut compared to the junk you see in sears and the like.

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    The cabinet shop in town has a 6 foot radial arm saw. It's about the coolest thing I've ever seen. They use it for miter cutting countertops. They place the countertop against the fence, then using a handcrank, the sawhead is drawn across the countertop by a chaindrive. Very spiffy. And fun to watch.

    I'd totally forgotten about that little gem.

    Jeff
    \"A little too tall, coulda used a few pounds...\"

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    yup those are neat, and very essential if you're going to sell countertop in any volume competatively. that's one of those tools that has no alternative equal, but you also have to know a little bit about how to use make odd intersections with it. it can be done other ways( without that neat saw) but all are way more laborious and time consuming. i once did a kitchen that had all sorts of angles and different width tops that mitered into each other, after the third delivery of one particular intersection that was cut wrong, i went to the shop and showed thier "counter top expert" how to set up the joint.

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