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Thread: Thelma 1898 Logan ( and Gloriana 1892 Logan)

  1. #1
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    Default Thelma 1898 Logan ( and Gloriana 1892 Logan)

    Do you remember the save a classic Thelma.( not to be confused with the little Thelma now owned by the Pardeys) She was in SF ( IIRC) for the last few decades and was sold about ooo 3 or 4 years ago to a syndicate who re decked her , tarted her up and went classic racing in the med for the last couple of years.
    Prior to her SF life she was in Hawaii and had been a naval R and R or training vessel since the war ( ww2) when she left NZ.

    She's been sold to a NZ syndicate/ trust and she's a coming home.

    blisss. I told you we wanted her back.

  2. #2
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    Well done Kiwis
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

  3. #3
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    Default Wonderful, John.

    No one is going to appreciate you like your own. It's good to see a Kiwi classic returned to Kiwiland. They've got enough of those posh boats banging around the Med. They can share a little.

    Mickey Lake

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    LOL.
    Cool eh. Our classics fleet isn't big so getting one back is just amazing. She's about 60 ft on deck IIRC .

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    I heard a whisper yesterday that it might be happening. So it's for real
    WOW

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    It is. . John ( Fosters ) and Max Carter on a plane to sort out packing her up for freight last night. What a buzz.
    Tern II due back in on a freighter early next week too.

  7. #7
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    Thelma arrived here a week ago but there was a welcome home function for her and her owners down at the Viaduct basin today. Very fine it was too, Its always good when you can't get away because you're talking boats boats boats.

    note the canting keel in the background, a bit of 2007 technology beside some 1897 technology.




    Whats particularly interesting about this boat is the transitional nature of her design. she's a boat right on the cusp of the spoon bow revolution that took over from the clipper bow boats. Of course , the bow is the visual cue but its the rest of the hull form, the firmer bilges , cut away keel profile and lower angle counter that really made the difference.

    Many very interesting people there, I only spoke to a few though. Two men I was chatting to found they had an old connection because they'd both raced in the 1974 Whitbread round the world race!. Bruce Webb, an Englishman and Scott( missed his second name .. and its the second time I've met him) from California. A long career as a delivery skipper , he's been several times around the world and works as a marine surveyor when he's not sailing.
    Really neat standing there listening to those two talk once they'd made the connection.

    well I'll be danged, that was easy, this is the boat Scott was on.
    http://membres.lycos.fr/mondialyacht.../Swan%2065.htm
    Last edited by John B; 04-21-2007 at 05:00 AM.

  8. #8
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    In that case, I've met him - Lymington, 1974 - Sayula was berthed astern of Baroque at Berthons. Tilman and Carlin were both invited to dinner by May; the rest of us met up in the pub.

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    Andrew, I bought my boat, "Pelagic", at Buckler's Hard and kept her at Berthon's in Lymington in july august and part of september 1984 before bringing her back to the US in spring of '85.
    I met Adlard Coles, and a few other semi famous sailors from there, including Commander Easton, who taught Prince Charles "howto" sail as a lad. Actually , Cmdr Easton, was one of the brokers who sold me Pelagic.
    As of this July, 2007, I will have owned her, (or she me) for more than 1/2 of my life! Oh my God.

  10. #10
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    Default Thelma and Gloriana

    The weather was perfect for the CYA visit to look at the progress on the two Logans being worked on at Horizon boats yard in Stillwater this sunday gone.
    Wind warning and wet so ideal for a wee trip and a chance to stand around gossiping about old boats. What a great set up they have there .

    Gloriana is basically finished from what I could see, some rig work yet to be done but she looked spectacular.
    Thelma is stripped back and is showing a hull which is really in a quite remarkable state of repair given her age.
    Teak decks are going on and she's being completely reconfigured inside to allow for the numbers of crew needed to operate her on passge / overnight races.

    Gloriana, circa 1892 Logan Bros, 2 1/2 rater IIRC.






    Thelma 1898 Logan,had one refurb in the US before going to Europe but so much of her actual hull looks original.






    Last edited by John B; 08-13-2007 at 04:42 PM.

  11. #11
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    here's an interesting shot, Con Thode having a look at the boat he sailed on in the 1920's.






    looking slippery


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    This little bit of structure was interesting to me, I haven't seen it before on any of the Logan or Bailey yachts I'm used to seeing but it makes a lot of sense when you see it.
    Extra diagonal strapping in way of the chainplates. Just another 1/2 inch strap of kauri .The same was there at the running backstay points as well.
    I noticed the hull had a total thickness of 2 inches or 50mm give or take a mm.

  13. #13
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    Fabulous - thanks John
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

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    See Con there Ian.... He's the man who worked his way to England in 1939,started the war as an officer on corvettes ( Flower class) , transferred to Submarines and finished it commanding his own sub.( S boat) . Astonishing life he's led.
    His sub duty was largely in the med as an officer but later in the war he commanded his S class through the Indian ocean to Malaysia/ Indonesia and environs.
    Last edited by John B; 08-13-2007 at 06:52 PM.

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    Thanks for the update John.

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    It is great to see the vigorous restorations going on down under. That's some kind of tiller on Gloriana! The helmsman must have to wear gloves...

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    Just got back from a meeting and talking with all the owners of these boats I've been monitoring, Rainbow, Rawhiti, Thelma and Gloriana.. they're all buzzing at the thought of lining them up against each other.

    That tiller was cast off the original wrought iron tiller from Rawhiti apparently Gold Rock .( So I was told tonight anyway.)

  18. #18
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    Rawhiti was discussed at the Sydney Wooden Boat Assn meeting tonight - she's on the Australian Register of Historic Vessels.

    http://www.anmm.gov.au/emuseum/code/...rrentrecord=84
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

  19. #19
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    Can't make anything out of that link Ian.

    One of Rainbows owners commented that he'd like to take her back to Sydney to recreate the race she was shipped over for( circa 1900).
    Actually, David Payne made rig drawings for Rainbow and Rawhiti in order to create a benchmark.. what they probably were when built. (lifts head,I'm staring at them now) and Our own Ed Burnett has made the final rig dwg and spec for Rainbow.

    Thelma already has her gaff rig as part of the earlier work in the U.S.
    Last edited by John B; 08-14-2007 at 04:03 PM.

  20. #20
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    Yeah the link isn't working ???? go to anmm.gov.au which is the Australian National Maritime Museum site and the register of historic vessels is under the collections and research tab. David Payne was the guest speaker last night. IIRC there's 134 boats in the register with David saying he is looking at another 60 nomination forms. Akarana an 1888 Logan boat was NZ's Bicentennial gift to Oz in 1988. I've posted photos of her before.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

  21. #21
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    Default Thelma

    It's so nice to see Thelma returned to NZ. She's a beauty, and I'm glad to see her being refitted. I sailed aboard her a few times when she was at Berkeley Yacht Harbor (CA). She was lively and fast; she should do well against her classic companions.

  22. #22
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    Thats nice to hear Bayboat , I'll pass your comment on when I catch up next. You have something in common with my old friend Con then eh . I'm sure I'll wangle a sail on her too even if I'm one of those 'competition'
    Skipper is Tony Blake, the maritime artist. The boat is owned by a very proactive trust who also own Waitangi, Gloriana and Frances... so she's in very good hands, they're all sailors and associated with the marine industry and dead keen and passionate about the classics.

  23. #23
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    Default Thelma

    John B.: Thanks. I am very happy to learn that Thelma and the other classic boats are in the hands of a capable and knowlegeable trust. Good luck to her.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Thelma 1898 Logan ( and Gloriana 1892 Logan)

    Thelma and Gloriana to be re launched this weekend.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/...ectid=10480894

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Thelma 1898 Logan ( and Gloriana 1892 Logan)

    They're both down at the viaduct getting ready for the launch(es)

    Thelma is a very big looking boat out of the water



    whereas Gloriana is 32 ft thereabouts and petite.

    Gloriana's Rig



    a bit of Thelmas running rigging ( backstays by the looks.)

    and what look like the original spreaders.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Thelma 1898 Logan ( and Gloriana 1892 Logan)

    Gloriana is sure purdy! Thanks for keeping us informed.

    Steven

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    Default Re: Thelma 1898 Logan ( and Gloriana 1892 Logan)

    She was the Logan Bros first boat Steven, and I'm sure she's named for the Nat Herreshoff boat of the same name. 2 1/2 raters were the buzz at the time and several were built with much hyped racing and betting taking place on the outcome so she had quite some impact in the day. As with most classes they got bigger and bigger within the rules , so the smaller boats became outclassed pretty fast. I think the biggest 2/12 rater we had was possibly Mahaki at around 38 ft.

    They're good fun to sail on. wet, but good in a boom dragging nose diving bliss interspersed with moments of true fear kind of way.

    Which reminds me of the perspective Johnny G likes to give about the little Thelma( which is also a 2 1/2 rater)
    When she's sailing along on a reach and gets overpowered and starts the dreaded drag of the boom end in the tide its actually quite dangerous. Two things can happen... one is that an overtaking sea or backwash off the hull wave can catch and fill the sail stressing up the boom and even breaking it. I believe he came a bit close a couple of times. The other is that when the boom goes in it creates drag and the boat will go from moderate weather helm to sudden lee helm and try to do a piroette down to leeward , with all the attendant panic attached to an uncontrolled gybe that is normal in these gaffers.
    Last edited by John B; 12-06-2007 at 08:35 PM.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Thelma 1898 Logan ( and Gloriana 1892 Logan)

    Our house was built in 1892, also. It's kinda cool that at the same time the stone foundation was being built here and this house framed and finished that beautiful boat was coming together on the othe side of the world.

    Steven

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Thelma 1898 Logan ( and Gloriana 1892 Logan)

    We'd call that a Victorian house here Steven. I don't suppose you do.
    Our old house is about 1910.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Thelma 1898 Logan ( and Gloriana 1892 Logan)

    By the way..... just to do a little rivet counting here ......

    Thelma was launched on 30th October 1897, NOT 1898.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Thelma 1898 Logan ( and Gloriana 1892 Logan)

    you can't escape the bat winged hamburger snatchers mate even on here John!!

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Thelma 1898 Logan ( and Gloriana 1892 Logan)

    Escape? I'm trying to get some of what he's getting.Good kai and time in a boat.

    The 1898 comes from the ( previous)owners website , discussion and general promotion. Who am I to argue ,when we've got our own private historian shining his illuminating light upon us. When he feels like it.
    Plus there's that old concept of the 'year' being that of the major part of the season or first race yadyadayada, so a late 07 boat is generally recorded as an 08 boat ,for example. hypothetically.

    I'll have a double chickenburger with avocado to go thanks.Hold the pacemaker.

    a further thought.. no , its true there are one or two from time to time.
    A boatbuilder friend of mine had this great big launch 3/4 built that never seemed to get finished over about 5 or 7 years because he'd been told to slow down and go on to something else. It turned out that the owner had other priorities and had decided that a year 2000 launch would suit him best because he wanted to sell it in the Americas cup year. So here he had this 1990 design started some time in the early 90's being sold 'new'in 2000.
    Same thing happens with cars, you wait till jan to buy the new one so its a later model.
    This highlights the boat isue. I don't see why people would be any different in 1900 to 2000. At that time they'd rather have a year newer for resale and prestige reasons whereas now we look back 100 years and try to find an earlier benchmark to claim.
    Last edited by John B; 12-10-2007 at 09:36 PM.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Thelma 1898 Logan ( and Gloriana 1892 Logan)

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    Same thing happens with cars, you wait till jan to buy the new one so its a later model.
    This highlights the boat isue. I don't see why people would be any different in 1900 to 2000. At that time they'd rather have a year newer for resale and prestige reasons whereas now we look back 100 years and try to find an earlier benchmark to claim.
    BINGO!!


    Peter
    Do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,now!
    J.Lennon

    This boat was built with ten thumbs.No fingers were harmed in anyway.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Thelma 1898 Logan ( and Gloriana 1892 Logan)

    It's not difficult to get these things right. If you have the time, and hit the libraries and read the newspapers of the time you will find on 6 November 1897, the NZ Herald recording that "Thelma was launched last Saturday..... she was christened by Miss Jagger ... the mast is stepped and she is ready for her first spin next week".

    OR you look at such recently published books like "Winkelmann's Waitemata", "The Logans - NZ Greatest Boatbuilding Family", or "Southern Breeze - A History of NZ Yachting" - ALL of which have the aforesaid October 1897 date taken from the NZ Herald by people who bothered to go and find out what was accurate and what was pure invention.

    Thelma was never "recorded" as 1898, any more than Rainbow was "recorded" as 1899, and Rawene "recorded" as 1909. They registered with their yacht clubs in the year they were launched, which in their cases were, 1897, 1898, 1908.

    These "out of step" dates stem from the name and date on the bronze tiller castings which "probably" tied the boat to the Trophy racing season which, in NZ, began with the Anniversary Regatta late in January and continued to the end of the season.

    I say "probably" because at this stage no one really knows.

    Maybe it's one of those peculiar Victorian things that have escaped us over the years, where because we were trying to be more British than the Brits, we aligned our racing dates with the yacht clubs back "Home" who have a nice tidy 1897, 1898, 1899 seasons instead of the unweildy 1896/97, 1897/98, 1898/99 we have down this part of the world.

    You only have to read some of the jingoistic tripe in the papers then, particularly around the time of the Boer War, to see how closely we pinned our shirts on Mother England. Those few yacht clubs we had at the time were generally bastions of patriotism.

    Dunno really - I'll get it one day.

    As I have found with various yacht club histories, the broken year e.g. 1897/98, causes all sorts of problems when you award a trophy in e.g. November 1897 and have all your engraving done for the 1898 prizegiving.
    Dual dates with different winners makes for some messy club records down the years.

    I'm sure it's absolutely nothing to do with cribbing another year for resale purposes. You have to remember that the Auckland keel yacht scene in the late 1890's wasn't THAT big that an owner could smuggle an extra year onto a crack 1st class racing yacht, known by just about everyone on the waterfront, in the hope of fooling someone into paying a few extra pounds for it. Doesn't make sense at all.

    Any way the bounder would be blackballed from every club on the harbour..
    Last edited by Deacon Blues; 12-11-2007 at 03:14 AM.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Thelma 1898 Logan ( and Gloriana 1892 Logan)

    So how'd the launch go? Any piccies?



    Steven

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