Help ID'ing English sailing dinghy

[twwagner]

My father-in-law recently passed away and I am trying to identify a sailing dinghy that he had built in a small town in England.

It is a beautiful piece of work about 8 feet long, with red sails and I recall seeing an article in a boating magazine about an entire fleet of these same boats that race at least once a year in England.

I am not at all well-versed in wooden boats, so any help I could get would be most appreciated.

[Backfin]

Could it be a Mirror? Check against pictures of Mirror class dinghies. They have red sails traditionally and are a popular class in the UK.

[hikingchrs]

Could you post a picture please, I love boat porn.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Mirrors are ~11 feet long.

The catalog of small sailing prams and dinghies is rather large. And, because the similarities between some designs are so great, only some unclutterd photos showing the boat from 3 angles can come close to guaranteeing an accurate identification. Of, course, if the boat carried a sail with the proper emblem, identifiication would be easier.

[Wild Wassa]

The Minnow Class, Naples Sabot Class and Sabot Class dinghies are all 8ft in length.

On the mainsail of the Naples-Sabot the emblem is a 'wooden clog' and on the Minnow it is a 'fish'. The sails might not be original, if the boat is old.

Warren.

[Wild Wassa]

"I love boat porn."

I like English dinghy boat porn, for sure. While waiting for twwagner to post a reply and images of the boat, I'll do my bit to keep a good English dinghy thread going.

Images from the Australian Capital Territory Flying Fifteen Titles which were held over this past weekend. The five races were run in a mix of drifters and good breezes, resulting in the current Australian Champions John Tracey and Craig Murphy beating the multiple Australian Champions and dual ACT title holders the Rainey Brothers by a very small margin. The photos of the two crews show how close the event eventually came down to.





The Raineys in Brumby. They won the last race by this much.





... but lost the State Title to John Tracey and Craig Murphy in Wings, from the Canberra Yacht Club, by this much.

The courses were triangular, with the first marks being a 1 then 0 rounding with the second marks being gates that gave the crews options of doing port or star'bd roundings. Tactically the selection of the rounding was crucial in most of the races. It was the selections of the different gate roundings by the crews in the last race, that determined the overall winner of the State Title.




Sunday sailing has some nice points to it.





A mix of old and new, boats and sailors. Peter Rustle, helm of the closest boat Rustler, is in his 80's. He is a past Australian and ACT Flying Fifteen Champion.

Unfortunately I'm the photographer because most unfortunately, my Skipper who is a UN disaster relief manager, had to fly to New Zealand half way through the Championships, so I had the pleasure of watching the last two races from the shore. This is the first time that I have actually seen a Flying Fifteen race ... or perhaps not? When we are at the back of a fleet, I do get to see a race, the others race, so to use the words "first time" isn't stricktly true. I must admit I don't want to do that shore-jockey style of caper again. The fleet had 5 boats in the Classic Class and 20 in the Modern Class competing, over the last two days. The winner of the Classics was Iffy, again.

Warren.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

One for Warren;
The Australians are famous for their radical "Off The Wind" technique.


And the Boat names.

[Wild Wassa]

That is the sight of a Fifteen that I see most often Stazza ... or standing under one looking up. Gripple Nipper needs a serious cut and polish ... or her name could be changed to Cipple Nripple.

Here is Flying High doing it.




The dfifferent stages above. Starting from the bow The old surface, the bleached after an acid wash surface, a soapy wash and then at the stern, starting a cut.





Then the light polish above.





This is the way I see most F15s ... not just flying high but also being able to hover.




Many think FF are far too sedate. Here is an impression of a bow in a foamcore composite gunnel. This impression like all good impressions is fleeting and will be gone today hopefully.

The first cab off the rank this morning is, fixing yesterday's carnage on ... "Splash". I'm Slpash's boat caddy. Yesterday was total carnage day and much worse than Saturday's carnage ... and today will be carbon and epoxy day. This was not the best regatta for Splash health wise. The photo above is only the little hole, she needs a new bow at the gunnel and a good section of another part of her starb'd gunnel as well. Splash took three good hits over the last couple of days. I'll have her up on her feet, for next weekend's club racing.

I brought Splash's hull up to a fine race level for the Titles (she won the second Heat at the Titles and things were looking good) and she is now just doing an impression of being a Swiss cheese. If you come and dinghy race here, don't ever lose your sence of humour ... it can be a desperate place without one.

Where I race it is totally ruthless. For the guys at the pointy ends of the fleet, if you don't protest there is no way that they will take a penalty or give an inch ... and avoiding collisions at all costs, well that just doesn't come into it. The investment is far too great to worry about a little crash. A boat is just another expendable resource ... it appears.

English dinghies can be a lot of fun.

Warren.

[twwagner]

I'm trying to see if we have any digital pictures that I can post. Although, there is a race with these dinghy's. It is my impression that this is definitely not a racing class. Thanks for the posts so far, and I love the boat porn....

[twwagner]

Ok, still don't have an digital picture of it rigged up (I don't own a scanner)....I did get some additional information. There is a plaque on the stern that reads "Norman Newell, boatbuilder, Seaview, IOW"

I also spoke to an individual who went to Isle of Wight with my late father in law to look at another similar sailing dinghy, but it was in bad shape. While they were there they saw this dinghy and it was set up as a rowboat. The builder retrofitted it with sails, but my understanding is that these are common dinghy's in the area and are set up with oars, sails, or both. They are used as tenders for larger boats, and are common in the area.

Any additional information that anyone has is appreciated.

thanks,

t

[Wild Wassa]

One of the boats Norman Newell built was the Seaview One-Design dinghy. I got that info from a basic search on Google. I typed in 'boats built by Norman Newell'.The Seaview is a 12 ft traditional dinghy. The Seaview is a stunning looking dinghy. The guys on the site below might be helpfull as contacts.

http://www.svod.org.uk/

Good luck Mate.

Warren.

[Thorne]

That must be what this lovely dinghy is -- I took the photo in the Fowey roads in early August.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Thorne, I don't like the word "must" in this context...

Try Googling for "West Wight Scow" or "Lymington scow" or "Keyhaven Scow".

All around the UK you can still find clinker built pulling/sailing craft which look a bit like that

Here are some treats
http://www.johnclaridgeboats.com/watercraft.htm

http://www.cvrda.org/wings/old/old.htm

http://www.huntersyard.co.uk/

[Thorne]

Well, I should have said "perhaps"...maybe.

;0 )

Actually I looked quite carefully at the photos on the Seahaven one-design site and the boat and rigging looks identical, hence my "must". But if you must protest, perhaps it should be "possibly"?

Photo from the SVOD site -


I checked your links and didn't see anything similar -- the scows all seemed to be smooth GRP or half-decked or whatever. Here's a small shot of the Keyhaven Scow -

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Waterwag
The world's oldest One Design. (but not English)

[twwagner]

Hey thanks for all the help. It is a Seview One Design by Norman Newell. They are built in Isle of Wight, England. Now I need to find the value.
Thanks-
Tom

[John B]

Is this it?


These are from IOW and are seaview( or a similar name). They have this habit of packing them in containers as a class, and shipping them off for a sailing event somewhere distant just for the hell of it. The owners follow along and do the races , do a quick tourist thing , and then go home.In 2000 they came here and did a wee regatta under the harbour bridge.
If we're talking the same boats Tom, they have a very strong class, one guy designated to look after them all and restore them as they need doing and I'm sure plenty of infrastructure as far as establishing value and general assistance.

[twwagner]

Thank you so much, I'm virtually certain that this is the dinghy. They are indeed beautiful! My father-in-law loved wooden boats and had his shipped over from England about 10 years ago. He only sailed it a couple of times, the rest of the time he had it displayed fully rigged in his house. He lived in a restroed carriage house with a very high ceiling and that accomadated the mast.

Unfortunately, he passed away this summer and a local yacht club has expressed interest in displaying his boat in their new yachting center, but we had no way to value the boat for tax purposes. I want to thank all interested parties on this string for their help.

tom wagner

[Presuming Ed]

If it is a SVOD, then I suggest you get in touch with the class in Seaview. They had their 75th anniversary this year, and of the 198 boats built, and had something like 175 boats in a race, and a sail past.

It's one of the sights of Seaview - in the summer, the dinghies live on moorings just off the club - if there's a strong Easterly forecast, the boatman has to get all the boats onshore.

http://www.svod.org.uk/contactus.php

Some photos of the race here: http://www.sallycollison.com/

[Jeremy Burnett]

Thorne,the dinghy you posted is a "Fowey Rivers" class dinghy.A local type confined to Fowey.There are not many around.I was up there yesterday,much emptier now than when you were there.

[Thorne]

Thanks, Jeremy!

What lovely boats they are - and that's why I like small wooden boats finished bright. If I ever manage to move back to the UK I'll pick up something similar even if I'm in the Midlands again...

[twwagner]

THE ANSWER!

Well, once again, thanks for all of the replys. We contacted the Sea View Yacht Club, and the secretary not only remembered the boat, but also my father-in-law. Here is part of his response:

With regard to the dinghy, I know all about this boat. It was built in mahogany by Norman Newell, and is a real jewel. It is not, in fact, a Sea View One-design dinghy, but a very special one-off design, built in Seaview, by Norman. If I am correct, your father purchased it, not to use, but to hang from the roof of his house.

My father-in-law did indeed hang it in his home fully rigged, and if all goes well, it may be displayed again in the yachting center of the Norfolk Yacht Club.

I promise to post a photo of the boat as soon as I can find someone with a good digital scanner to get a decent shot.

[Wild Wassa]

TWW, good result. You scored a win with your email to the yacht club, good reply. Thanks for keeping us enthrawled (speaking for myself of course). She sounds very fine. Your Father-in-law also sounds like he was a very astute bloke.

It was the 8ft length that you gave in your first post, that had me wondering what type of boat she really is ... a 'Seaglimpse'? Which is a smaller view, like the view you get from a car window, rather than standing out on a headland taking in the full sea view.

" ... as soon as I can find someone with a good digital scanner to get a decent shot."

Any quality of scanner Skipper, will speed up the process and look good here.

Warren.

[twwagner]

As a one of a kind (at least for now..) maybe "Seaglimpse" should be the name...

the Sea View Yacht Club secretary was going to try and speak to Mr. Newell who is apparently quite elderly at this point and get any other information available...we could be wrong on the one of a kind thing...

tom

[Wild Wassa]

TWW, It goes to show how important a maker's plate with a few details on it can be. The old 'remembered history' doesn't last once the guy who knew it has moved on.

It was only thanks to a guy who remembered, a bloke who knew the builder, who remembered an apprentice's name, who I rang around on my behalf to locate another bloke, who remembered that the boat builder's apprentice had moved house and knew approximately where he had moved to ... that allowed me to identify my boat. Now all I have to do is wait for another guy to send me boat plans, so I can send them to a Forum Member in Melbourne, so that he can restore his boat. But the guy who has promised to send me the plans can't remember who he gave the plans to ... otherwise there would be another English dinghy on the water.

Good luck with continuing your search ... my search has seriously stalled.

Warren.

[twwagner]

Good luck with yours as well...it sounds like it's going to be tough from here on out.


t

[mhellis]

i found your enquiry and dont know if it is sorted but Norman Newell boatbuilder from the Isle of wight is my stepfather. Unfortunately he died Christmas eve 2006 but my mother remembers your father and inlaw and all about the boat if you need any further information, please ask