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Thread: Stripping Paint that won't dry

  1. #1
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    Question Stripping Paint that won't dry

    I am having trouble with easypoxy paint over west system epoxy. I followed the paint manufacturer's directions to the letter but the paint is still not drying. It has been on the boat for over three weeks (I have been out of town for two weeks). Spar varnish is drying normally on other parts of the boat (also over eposy). It seems I'm going to have to strip off the paint and try something different. The rel. humidity has been controlled at 40% and the temp has been controlled at 20C (~70F).

    Any recommendations on how to strip the paint would be appreciated. Also any recommendations on alternative paints would be appreciated.


    btw its a nutshell pram. A real nice little boat, we'd like to sail it before the bay freezes.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by David121
    I am having trouble with easypoxy paint over west system epoxy. I followed the paint manufacturer's directions to the letter but the paint is still not drying. It has been on the boat for over three weeks (I have been out of town for two weeks). Spar varnish is drying normally on other parts of the boat (also over eposy). It seems I'm going to have to strip off the paint and try something different. The rel. humidity has been controlled at 40% and the temp has been controlled at 20C (~70F).

    Any recommendations on how to strip the paint would be appreciated. Also any recommendations on alternative paints would be appreciated.


    btw its a nutshell pram. A real nice little boat, we'd like to sail it before the bay freezes.
    Never had this problem with Easypoxy. I am inclined to think it might be a problem with the epoxy substrate. It might, of course, be a problem with paint reformulation. This does happen. I had a problem with Woolsey paint many years ago.

    Brightsides is a good paint.

    Don't know what to tell you regarding stripping....don't know if stripper would mess with the epoxy...you could experiment. there is an International stripper that is meant to be used on fiberglass boats...

  3. #3
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    Hopefully,all the the amine blush was washed off thoroughly from the epoxy.I washed mine about 6x with amonia and water/scotch pads and rinsed off with fresh water. Then went over the whole hull with mineral spirits with white paper rags until nothing transferred to the rags. If it won't dry at all,you are going to have to scrape what you can off and get the rest with mineral spirits and a scotch pad and rags. I would up the temperature in there and try heating it up first though.

    Try some of the paint on something else and see if it dries there. That will tell you where the problem is.

  4. #4
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    (I've not had to but) This is how I would do it.

    Aquire a tungsten carbde scraper, a 1kg bag of painter's rags, and acetone (I don't think 1-2 lt will be adaquate you might even consider buying 5lts which will be about the same cost of 3 individual litres). The acetone will make short work of epoxy residues. Tungsten carbide scrapers don't muck around. If you can apply a touch of heat to any stubborn bits, this will speed up the process.

    If it was a 14-16ft boat I'd expect to spend a day to a day and a half, to get the hull back to pristine or how it was prior to painting.

    Half fill a metal jar with about 300 mls of acetone for swishing the blade in, to remove the sticky residues, don't let the residues build up on the blade. Clean up the paint strips as you go. If it is still soft as you have written? ... it should come off in long strips with the scraper. Don't overlook that the corners of a carbide scraper, are very sharp points.

    Good luck. Kick boat.

    Warren.

    PS,

    Last edited by Wild Wassa; 09-16-2006 at 05:06 PM.

  5. #5
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    I'd just call the tech people at Gougeon Brothers and find out what brand of stripper works best on WEST epoxy.

  6. #6
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    Then post what they tell you to do.

    My technique is to remove the top layer, the paint only, ... then let me know how you get on with a paint stripper? Post lots of photos.

    Warren.
    Last edited by Wild Wassa; 09-17-2006 at 05:33 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Bradshaw
    I'd just call the tech people at Gougeon Brothers and find out what brand of stripper works best on WEST epoxy.
    Doesn't he need to strip the Easypoxy, not the WEST system?
    I don't understand why people use epoxy that blushes when there are epoxies that don't blush.

    Steven

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    That happened to me once with Easypoxy over System 3. There was a skin over the paint, but it wouln't dry where it contacted the epoxy. Anyhow, it all came off quickly in long strips with a scraper. I washed off what little remained - I think with steel wool and acetone. I repainted it from the same can, and the second time around it dried normally. Had to be the blush -- the same epoxy and paint had worked before this problem, and worked later. I wasn't aware of having done those parts differently, but clearly I did.

  9. #9
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    Here's an update. I put the boat outside today and it seems to have dired considerably. Will it eventually dry completely if I wait long enough or does this paint have to come off?

    I noticed one poster suggested not using West System epoxy next time. But the spar varnish has no problem drying over the epoxy. Why is Pettit Easypoxy a problem? are there other paints that work better over West System epoxy? I read an older post about the amine blush that must be removed so I followed the instructions fairly closely before painting. I would to like to avoid this in the future by using two products that get along better.

  10. #10
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    Perhaps I wasn't clear. I see no reason to strip the epoxy off, just the paint. The tech guys at Gougeon are quite good and really know their product. Rather than wander about on internet forums trying to find out what the best means of stripping paint without damaging the epoxy or adding some stray chemicals to the mix that might also inhibit getting a good bond, I would call Gougeon and get the answer from somebody who actually knows what's safe to use on their epoxy and what's not. As for blush, I still fail to see why so many people seem to fear it like the plague. It's very easy to remove with nothing more than a Scotchbrite pad and some water and a hull in the 15' - 20' range only takes about 20 minutes to do. I also suspect that most of the folks who find blush to be such a problem don't actually have any first hand experience dealing with it. I don't trust any epoxy surface that's been sitting for more than a couple hours as suitable for recoating without some sort of abrasive prep anyway. I'm also amazed at the number of different chemical solvents, paint thinners and the like that people use to "clean" surfaces before applying resin to them or between layers of resin. Then they can't figure out why they're having bonding problems....go figure. Assuming that you don't have a bad batch of Easypoxy (which would probably be pretty rare) it should harden up and dry just fine on top of WEST epoxy - as long as the surface has been properly prepared and you haven't contaminated it with something else.

  11. #11
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    I believe it says in the Gougeon Big Book (or somewhere) to always test the paint you plan to use over the epoxy you are using, there's no predicting what will or won't work. Saying one paint or another will or won't cure over a particular epoxy is not fixed in stone, manufacturers change and tweak formulations.

    It doesn't have to be blush that causes the problems, epoxy emits amines for a very long time after it's 'cured', possibly months or years, and the amines (which is what blush is too of course) react with certain paints.

    I have done extensive paint testing for my own edification over the various FCI products I use (non-blushing BTW), and found some stuff that works fine, and other paint that will never cure, or takes weeks or months. Interestingly, any acrylic, especially acrylic latex paint, always cured the fastest (for me) and often the toughest as well when considering one-pot products. Once I even painted acrylic latex paint directly over wet epoxy, and they both cured fine in normal time. I did the standard cut-grid test to check adhesion, and it was all one super-hard coat. I have read somewhere that many latex paints are amine-based (amonia in one form or another) so some latex paints and some epoxies have a natural bonding sort of thing. Two part LPU's will generally stick like ugly on a bucket of worms, but I'd test first nonetheless.

    In any case, I would never commit to painting an entire boat before testing the very paint I planned to use on it, on the same epoxy. I've seen David121's problem before, once burned, twice shy and all that stuff.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Bradshaw
    As for blush, I still fail to see why so many people seem to fear it like the plague.
    My concern with blush isn't so much with something like coating the outside of an entire hull. That's easy to wash off. The inside? A little trickier. But here's where I have a problem. Say I'm gluing a plywood bulkhead into a hull. I coat the edges of the bulkhead with unthickened epoxy. Then coat, say, a 1 inch wide stip in the hull where the bulkhead will be. Then I thicken up the epoxy, recoat everything and glue the bulkhead in place. I'll smooth the excess now as much as I can but will need to go back later to do a smooth fillet. Here's the blush problem. I don't want to wash off the blush with water, the ply next to the joint would just soak it up and I'd have to wait for it to dry completely. But the blush could keep the second coat of epoxy (the fillet) from bonding to the first layer. Anyway, it just seems sensible to use an epoxy that doesn't blush.

    Steven

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    It's probably a throw-back to the days before we had epoxy and we had to use polyester, but in a case like that I tend to do all my structural work in a continuous session, where the fillet would be added just as soon as the stuff under it was stiff enough to allow it and blush isn't a problem. If, for some reason this was not possible, the first layers would be allowed to cure and then would be wiped down with water and then sanded before adding more structural goo on top. Blush isn't thick enough or stuck well enough to the resin that you need to hose the boat to get it off and the wiping part, actually lifting it off the surface, is probably more important than any need to flood the area.

    I just don't trust bonds made to cured, unsanded resin - epoxy, polyester or vinylester, blushing or not. I look at it this way: You know how the old saying about painting goes? The one that claims that a good paint job is 99% preparation? I'm not sure that I totally agree with their assignment of percentages as I think application skill and decent paint are worth more than one percent, but I understand what they're getting at. I tend to look at resin and/or glassing work and getting a good strong bond the same way. I find it incredible that folks will carefully sand between coats of paint or varnish to get a pretty finish, but many of them won't take the time to sand or even Scotchbrite between the coats of cured epoxy to get the best possible bond between the structural layers which are actually holding their boat together. In addition, products where this kind of treatment is required tend to be deemed "inconvenient" and should be avoided? Call me an old stick-in-the-mud, but I'm not buying it. If it's a structural bond and I can't make it to green resin, I'm gonna' sand it anyway, so whether the stuff blushes or not doesn't really matter. I don't trust paint cans that say "One Coat Covers" either....

  14. #14
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    Not only sanded but keyed.I used 36 grit to key where structural parts went over previous epoxy whether it needed it or not unless it was immediate green cure and even then,I would probably score the epoxy with a utility knife in a crosshatch pattern where the bulkhead or frame goes. I only flooded the outside of the hull since it was just quicker to do so. I rarely had an instance where I had to frame over cured epoxy if ever on the build of my 18 Simmons. Anything interior I just went over with a wet paper rag followed by one with denatured alcohol.

    Whether it claims to be non blushing or not,the safe side would be to treat it like it all blushes.

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