advice on making metal mast band

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Alan
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2000
    • 94

    advice on making metal mast band

    I would like to make a stainless steel mast band for the top of a mast that is about two inches in diameter.

    I would like to make it in two pieces so that it has ears for clamping and for holes to attach a forestay and a halyard block. I would guess it needs to be at least 1/8 inch thick.

    I have very little metal working experience. Is this something that can be home made? If so, any suggestions as to how?

    Thanks
    Alan Peck
  • Thorne
    Like my hat?
    • Aug 2005
    • 16414

    #2
    Stainless can be hard to work -- I'd suggest getting a quote from a local stainless shop, then comparing that to the single-piece bands sold by US makers and possibly Davey importers like R&W Rope.

    This isn't a part that you probably want to experiment with, as depending on the size of your boat and sailing conditions, failure could be dangerous/expensive.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

    Comment

    • Bob Smalser
      Member
      • Jun 2003
      • 9716

      #3
      Bronze is more expensive, but much easier to work.







      Last edited by Bob Smalser; 09-10-2006, 04:51 PM.
      Bob

      http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/b...lser-index.asp
      http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/articles.pl#smalser

      Comment

      • Canoeyawl
        .
        • Jun 2003
        • 37683

        #4
        If all you need are a forestay and halyard block, perhaps a simple ‘tang” or strap bent over the top of the mast with a hole in each end for a shackle will serve. This type of fitting is a powerful attachment. Two through rivets will fasten it well. 1/8” material is ambitious, 1/16” maybe more suitable. Thin stainless straps are available at marine chandlers.
        Remember, weight aloft is your enemy…

        Comment

        • Bruce Hooke
          Senior Member
          • Mar 2000
          • 14297

          #5
          I'm no expert on this, but I agree with Canoeyawl. There is a lot of downward pull on the forestay and halyard block, which a ring around the mast is poorly designed to resist. Tangs that run up the mast, or a cap that fits over the top of the mast, would seem to be a more effective solution.

          Comment

          • Alan
            Senior Member
            • Nov 2000
            • 94

            #6
            As always, lots of great advice. I think Thorne is right, even on a small boat, a failure here could be a real problem.

            The Davey site is really interesting. If their price sheet is up to date the prices aren't too bad.

            By the way, in the Davey catalog they list both galvanized and gunmetal. I am not sure what gunmetal is. Perhaps it is what we call cast bronze?

            Bruce makes a good point, the mastband does not seem to be set up too well to resist slipping downward. How do people install mastbands to avoid that problem? Perhaps a screw or two through the mast band. Or maybe better yet, a couple of wood (bolsters or hounds, not sure of the correct terminology) set just below the band that would be glued and screwed to the mast? Not sure about the screws, since one of the reasons I like the mastband as I wanted to avoid drilling into the mast for fear of weakening it.
            Alan Peck

            Comment

            • donald branscom
              Senior Member
              • Nov 2004
              • 5197

              #7
              Making a mast band with stainless.

              Originally posted by Alan
              I would like to make a stainless steel mast band for the top of a mast that is about two inches in diameter.

              I would like to make it in two pieces so that it has ears for clamping and for holes to attach a forestay and a halyard block. I would guess it needs to be at least 1/8 inch thick.

              I have very little metal working experience. Is this something that can be home made? If so, any suggestions as to how?

              Thanks
              This is no problem at all. You will hear many things about stainless steel. Many of these ideas are not true.

              A 2 inch wide 1/8 thickness flat bar will be fine. Use 304 0r 316 either one is ok. If it is formed in two halves then the flanges that get bolted together would be 1/4 thick when added together.
              Since you would need no welding you would not get into all the welding issues. a good plan for a non-welder.
              make a cardboard pattern first and form it to the mast so you can then lay it out flat and know the length of the pieces. Don't drill holes untill both pieces are bent and clamped together. Drill the holes with a cobalt drill bit. You will have no problem. Keep the speed down and apply pressure. To cut use a hack saw with a blade that is 24 teeth per inch for best results.

              To form the part remember that stainless work hardens when it is formed which means you can bend it. To unbend it will be more diffacult. Form the pieces by holding each end of the flat bar and pushing it down on a round steel pipe or stainless pipe. Wear leather gloves. Keep checking the fit. When it gets diffacult you can use a vice. Bend the flange and make it a sharp bend by putting it in a vice.

              Just go little by little. When you have both sides formed put the two halves together and check the fit. then clamp one end of the pair into a vice. Clamp the end (not in the vice) together with vice grips. Drill the holes. If the collar is slightly loose you can take up the space with leather , and if its too tight you could use washers in addition to sliding the collar up or down on the mast. Keep the block close to the mast.
              Last edited by donald branscom; 09-13-2006, 12:36 AM.
              I love the smell of fresh cut plywood in the morning.

              Comment

              • Saville
                Junior Member
                • Dec 2011
                • 27

                #8
                Re: advice on making metal mast band

                Originally posted by Bob Smalser
                Bronze is more expensive, but much easier to work.








                Did you use heat to make that bend? Or just muscle?

                Gunning Dory plans suggest a mast band for a jib halyard block. No one is going to have one for sale that will fit my mast where it needs to go so I was wondering what tools/capabilities yu need to make a bronze mast band like the one you show here.

                thanks

                Comment

                • Saville
                  Junior Member
                  • Dec 2011
                  • 27

                  #9
                  Re: advice on making metal mast band

                  Originally posted by Bruce Hooke
                  I'm no expert on this, but I agree with Canoeyawl. There is a lot of downward pull on the forestay and halyard block, which a ring around the mast is poorly designed to resist. Tangs that run up the mast, or a cap that fits over the top of the mast, would seem to be a more effective solution.
                  Interesting. I'm in the middle of figuring out the rigging for my Marblehead Gunning Dory. The sail plan calls for the jib halyard to start near the top of the mast with a shoulder cleat and eye splice. So far so good.

                  Then it leads to a block near the jib head - also fine - then it leads to another block a little down the mast from the shoulder cleat.....this is to turn the halyard to run down the length of the mast

                  For this block, it suggests a mast band. No commercial mast band is likely to fit at that point and besides the mast is tapered so the fit wouldn't be snug.

                  AndI take yours and Canoeyawl's point that a mast band wouldn't resist the forces well.


                  So I'm wondering why another shoulder cleat at that point wouldn't work.

                  Comment

                  • Peerie Maa
                    Old Grey Inquisitive One
                    • Oct 2008
                    • 62415

                    #10
                    Re: advice on making metal mast band

                    Shrouds used to sit on a shoulder on the mast. A solid mast band should also sit on a shoulder, being a tight driving fit down to seat onto the shoulder. A two part band is hugely over complicated. Either buy a stock item or have a fab shop weld one up out of thick walled 2" od pipe adding the lugs that you need.
                    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

                    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
                    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

                    Comment

                    • mohsart
                      Senile Mumbler
                      • Mar 2014
                      • 1066

                      #11
                      Re: Making a mast band with stainless.

                      Originally posted by donald branscom
                      This is no problem at all. You will hear many things about stainless steel. Many of these ideas are not true.
                      Agreed, I made a similar fitting for the tip of a bowsprit recently, except it was in one piece.
                      I first bent the ends of the band to form the ear using a vice, then formed the ring by little by little pressing the ends together around a marlinespike (I first used a piece of wood, but it was crushed) also using a vice.
                      The diameter of the ring is about 1.5", the material is perhaps 1.5" wide and 1/8" thick SS.

                      However, the force on my ring is almost optimal, with a downwards force I would at least make the ring wider and put a rivet or a bolt and nut above the hole for the shackle.
                      I did, and I certainly think you should, make a groove for the ring to fit in, that way it does not only rely on friction to stay in place but also rests on the outer parts of the mast, kind of like on hounds.
                      That said, make the ring a bit smaller than the diameter it will hug, so that when securing it in place with rivets or bolts it really gets stuck there.

                      /Mats
                      sigpic
                      Diagnosed with autism. Sorry, not much I can do about it.

                      Comment

                      • Jay Greer
                        Senior Member
                        • Nov 2004
                        • 14425

                        #12
                        Re: advice on making metal mast band

                        Normally I would call for Everdure bronze to be used for mast tangs I design. L.Francis and Nathanel Herreshoff used half hard phosphor bronze for most of their rigging tangs and straps. Phosphor bronze was once supplied in three hardnesses, soft, half hard and hard. Now it comes in hard only hard and must be heat treated to soften it for bending or it will crac!. So, I consider Everdure silicone bronze to be an excellent substitute for phosphor bronze. It is easy to bend or roll and can easily be silver soldered. Silver soldering is very strong and can be done in the home shop thus making tig welding unecessary. It is not plagued by the spot rust and age cracking that some stainless is and in my humble opinion stainless steel is not the best choice for home shop rigging work. Here is and example of a job we did on "Bright Star"for the addition of a set of running back stays and a jib stay and halyard block set up.
                        It was simple to form and works very well.
                        Jay
                        Last edited by Jay Greer; 08-31-2018, 12:39 PM.

                        Comment

                        Working...