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Thread: The Perfect Powerboat Design

  1. #1
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    Default The Perfect Powerboat Design

    Alrighty then, everyone jumped in and helped CS with his perfect sailboat design. Now its time for the perfect powerboat design, well at least my perfect powerboat design. Here's the criteria, in no particular order:

    • Effecient
    • Trailerable
    • Comfortable in a chop
    • Used primarily on the Florida Gulf coast with the occassional trip to the Bahamas or the Keys.
    • Shallow draft <1 ft if possible
    • V-bunks
    • Quite
    • Cruise at 22 knots
    • Wood (DUH)
    • Cold-molded or plywood on frame (not sure I'm a fan of stitch & glue)
    • Lightweight
    • Good initial stability
    • 23 to 27 ft
    • 7 1/2 to 8 ft beam
    • Inboard or outboard diesel or gas (no I/O)

    I'm looking at a timeless topsides with a modern underbody. as shown in the sketch below:



    I'd love to have the mega-low draft cababilities of Atkin's tunnel stern designs, but I'd have to adjust his plans which stands a good chance of screwing them up. I also don't know how well the design would do on the trips across the open water to the Bahamas.

    I'd love to be able to do the design work myself if possible. I am a novice AutoCAD user and also have FreeShip, FWIW.

    Well, what say yee? (besides I'm crazy)
    "You only live once--but if you work it right, once is enough."

  2. #2
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    Try www.nexusmarine.com they have a 23 foot cubby dory with 6" draft motor up he sells plans.

  3. #3
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    I'd say put a cabin on a nice 20' tunnel sterned Atkin Design like Everhope, but she'll only do 21 mph so I guess she's out. What's your hurry anyway?





    There are lots of designs that meet your criteria at the Atkin site.

    Steven

  4. #4
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    Default

    For me I the power boat would be wither a Rob White ( R.I.P ) design like His Rescue Minor skiff



    That or that very efficient NZ launch that was on the cover of Woodenboat one before last. NOW that was a nice stinkpot.
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  5. #5
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    The Tolman Jumbo.Something that holds enough fuel for the Bahamas and back.Fuel must cost a fortune there by now.I've been to the Bahamas a few times by boat and always seemed to encounter rough water on the way home.
    Last edited by pipefitter; 07-21-2006 at 09:39 PM.

  6. #6
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    Hylan's TOP HAT meets most of those criteria except for the speed and I'm not sure I'd want to take a narrow beam boat across the Gulfstream sideways to those sometimes nasty waves... but that's just me
    "When I was a boy with never a crack in my heart."

    -W. B. Yeats

  7. #7
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    Default

    If we are talking in the Atkin world, the SHOALS RUNNER fits that bill equally stellarly as the EVERHOPE. A bit more length and topsides designed for a cabin.

    E

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    Maybe the biggest part of finding the perfect design is understanding the criteria, and being realistic about those points.

    You list fuel efficient, comfortable in a chop, then you turn around and list a cruising speed of 22 knots or 25 m.p.h. speed.
    Kinda contradictary in terms.
    That speed automatically dictates a planing hull, nothing else.

    Changing the cruising speed to mid teens will include all kinds of semi-dissplacement hulls that are fuel efficient and comfortable in a chop...
    You can't have everything.......

  9. #9
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    http://www.bluejacketboats.com/ I'm sure Tom will chime in here regarding crossing the Gulf Stream.. BTW, there is a rumor that he has a 28' version on the drawing board with more room in the pilot house, yet still trailerable behind a good sized vehicle. Rick

  10. #10
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    You are starting to sense my dilemma in finding the do-all design and where to make compromises.


    Planing hull may not be necessary - perhaps dropping back a couple of knots cruise speed wouldn't be unreasonable.

    I would think that a 27' x 8' boat is capable of handling the trip to/from Bahamas, in nice weather. I've been out 40 miles in a 21 foot FRP boat with force 4 seas - wasn't a ton of fun but I never felt unsafe. I know, I know, many have floated from Cuba in not much more than an inner tube, but I wouldn't want to take a relaxing family cruise on one.

    WRT displacement; lighter is more efficient, but will a light hull pound more in a chop and tend to act squirrelly in a following sea?

    Jeff
    "You only live once--but if you work it right, once is enough."

  11. #11
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    Default Tom Lathrop

    Rick,

    Just read the data on Tom's site. Thanks for the link!

    That's the type of information I'm looking for, and I knew that someone else has been down this same road before.

    When you chime in Tom, I'm curious as to draft on your designs and also further discussion of warped-plane vs. monohedron hulls. What do you think about changing the pilot house configuration? Not that I don't like the raised deck look, I just prefer the looks of a trunk cabin.

    Jeff
    "You only live once--but if you work it right, once is enough."

  12. #12
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    Just to muddy up the waters, and make things worse.

    I will throw in a couple of links to possibilities...

    http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Cr...aptnFrank.html
    As william atkin would say, 15 m.p.h. real miles per hour, you can cover a lot of water in a days run.

    And should we not forget this little jewel..

    http://www.steamlaunch.co.nz/Whio.html

  13. #13
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    Sam Devlin's 25' Surf Scoter will cruise at around 20 knots:

    http://devlinboat.com/dcsurfscoter25.htm

  14. #14
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    Raised deck vs. trunk cabin: when you consider trailerable boats, they are all small by definition. A raised deck gives you the most "bang for the buck" in room below. It's hard to get good sitting headroom with a trunk cabin: the break in the deck comes right about shoulder or neck height. Furthermore, the resulting side decks are too small for meaningfull use. I have a 20' trailersailor with a trunk cabin, and that has been my experience.


    Rick

  15. #15
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    Rick,

    Excellent point I hadn't considered. I'm hoping that being a little larger boat, that the width of the trunk cabin is enough to not cause the problem you describe.

    Aesthetics are critical to me........hope I don't blindside myself.

    Jeff
    "You only live once--but if you work it right, once is enough."

  16. #16
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    Hello everyone looking for their "perfect" boat.

    Sorry to disappoint you but there is no such animal. My boats were designed to satisfy my own personal idea of what my perfect boat might be. While I am satisfied with them, I know that there are many others who have differing thoughts on what "perfect" means. I know of very little that I might change if I were doing the Bluejacket 24 again and no changes would affect the concept or performance in the slightest degree. As is the boat fulfills all the original goals.

    Would I like more miles per gallon? Sure, but none of the contending boats that I know of in this tight little category get better than the 7 or 8 mpg that "Liz" gives. Would I like the boat to be able to cross the Gulf Stream in bad weather? Sure, but I would have to give up most of the other goals which I am not willing to do. Still, "Liz" handles water conditions rougher than we like to be out in and brings us home safely.

    As for the trunk cabin concept. Many like that and it is fine but much would be lost in the interior with only the gain of a personal appearance preference. Luckily, I just like the old classic flush foredeck look and accept the nice extra interior and forward buoyancy and dryness features with appreciation. There is the suggestion that the trunk cabin gives easier and safer access afound the outside to the foredeck for anchoring, etc. Perhaps, but I almost never do that, although wide side decks are there, since all anchoring and mooring takes place while the crew is safely standing in the forehatch and no ugly bow pulpit in ever needed. What could be safer? Will I design a Bluejacket with a trunk cabin? No, but the concept of the Bluejacket is able to accept such modifications done by anyone knowleageable enough to do so. It would not be "my" boat when finshed, but its a free country, at least in this arena.

    There is simply no "one size fits all" boat, which is a good thing. I am never offended when someone wants something other than what my boats offer. I also know that my power cruiser boat universe is small but the BJ 24 fills it very well.
    Last edited by Tom Lathrop; 07-22-2006 at 11:11 AM.
    Tom L

  17. #17
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    Tom,

    I couldn't agree with you more.

    John Atkins said: "Fact of the matter is everything that goes into the design of a boat is a compromise; the difficulty is to know how to arrive at the most desirable compromise." My original post said MY perfect design, just as the Bluejacket is yours. Which, by the way, I really like and meets your requirements to a "T."

    Can you tell me what the draft is on the Bluejacket? I would think it would be in the 12 to 18 inch range (engine up), certainly no more.

    Can you provide a little more info on how it is built (stitch & glue, ply on frames)?

    Jeff
    "You only live once--but if you work it right, once is enough."

  18. #18
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    Jeff The hull draft empty is about 6". With two aboard and fuel and stores aboard it is about 7". There is a small keel of 2" making the overlall hull boat draft of about 9". The immersion is about 550 lbs per inch. Motor skeg draft is about 23". The boat is built stitch & glue and there is a lot of info on the website about construction as well as performance. Deadrise aft is 10 degrees. For a boat like this there is little to choose from in either monohedron and warped plane bottoms. Either would work fine.
    Tom L

  19. #19
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    Tom,

    Draft certainly meets the requirements. I didn't see much building detail; is the boat build on a web frame?

    Jeff
    "You only live once--but if you work it right, once is enough."

  20. #20
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    Arch Davis's Jiffy V 22 might fit your needs.
    http://www.by-the-sea.com/archdavisd..._jiffyv22.html
    "If a man speaks at sea where no woman can hear, is he still wrong?"

  21. #21
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    Your requirements scream catamaran at me.


    You only implied accomodation, a cat at that size (and speed) would be cramped.

  22. #22
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    As a representative of the "unwashed" I have to interject that S&G hulls, particularly those by Jacques Mertens @ bateau .com, do everything that the old timey wood framed hulls do, are lighter, tighter, faster to build , maybe cheaper (I've never built anything over 15' so I gotta' be a little vague on that) and come in a dizzying array of planing, displacement, motor in, motor out, trawler with aux. sail, yada, yada, yada.
    And you won't be struck blind if you look at pictures of boats that are put togehter with gooj.
    If you like one of his designs but would like a little more of this or that you can put a query to him 5 days a week. In several languages.

    Charlie

  23. #23
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    Default Some thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Hwyl
    Your requirements scream catamaran at me.
    You only implied accomodation, a cat at that size (and speed) would be cramped.
    Gareth-

    Your comment about the powercat brought this design to mind: http://tinyurl.com/mcc7x

    An inboard engine design (non-cat) would be this one by Tanton. It was the runner-up in a WB contest for a trailerable cruiser design incorporating a Subaru engine: http://tinyurl.com/op47p

    And WAYWARD (Design #119 w/outboard in a well) by Gartside: http://tinyurl.com/ng635
    Last edited by rbgarr; 07-23-2006 at 01:31 AM.
    "When I was a boy with never a crack in my heart."

    -W. B. Yeats

  24. #24
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    Thanks David. It dos fit all parameters. I see wayward only does 10 Kts (fast enough for me). I like the Chris White design though. You do lose on accomodation, but get a full size bed.


  25. #25
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    Default MY power cruiser criteria

    I figure that the cat design would be acceptable for southern camp cruising because most cooking/eating, etc. would be in the open cockpit or under the cabin top at worst. I'd try to save the forward cabin for sleeping and perhaps head only, and have an even larger double bunk.

    Re Tom Lathrop's LIZ descriptions on his website:
    I wish he included some pictures of LIZ in a chop and different headings to waves. But it's difficult to get pictures sometimes, and YCAGWYW (as The Rolling Stones wailed!). His verbal description of her handling is very good. Little mention is made of spray in rough water... which may mean that it's NOT a concern.

    One criteria for a weekend power cruiser for me would include riding dry outside for my wife, who likes it there in all but the worst conditions (slight worry about nausea) while I prefer an inside steering station (greater worry about skin cancer).

    So much of an owner's satisfaction with a boat depends on how it is used... and that can change from minute to minute, much less year to year!
    Last edited by rbgarr; 07-23-2006 at 08:24 AM.
    "When I was a boy with never a crack in my heart."

    -W. B. Yeats

  26. #26
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    Default Commuter 27?

    "So much of an owner's satisfaction with a boat depends on how it is used... and that can change from minute to minute, much less year to year!"

    Oh how true, I know that there are some more things that I want to do that I am not able to do in my 16" dory. One of those is to accommodate a lot more people on board. I also would like the capability to do some longer range cruising, but know that the majority of the time I'll just be messing around inshore on short trips. So I'll focus on the wants as I know them now.

    The cats are out; they don't fit my requirement for classic looks (regardless of the other attributes).

    I've also found Reuel Parkers Commuter 27, meets the requirements (other than trunk cabin), but not sure how the modified sharpie hull design would handle the slop in comparison to the Bluejacket.

    Jeff
    "You only live once--but if you work it right, once is enough."

  27. #27
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    Hopefully this thread will drag on, as did the sailboat design thread with a lot of informative and debatable information as to a mid 20ft. trailerable power boat. A source of others experience and wants and needs as well..

    Why don't you relist a update on the requirements as info changes your mind here and there. The speed requirements will be a critical criteria. It also sounds like you are leaning towards the lobster boat style and ability more and more.There are plenty of plans out there for small lobster boats. Glen-l has a couple, a lot like tom's bluejacket.
    And of course the tolman skiff.....

    Glen-l's double eagle can be stretched 10%, they also have the eagle.
    http://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=535

    Tolman skiffs are nice, but they are stich and tape.
    http://www.xyz.net/~mgrt/
    Last edited by RonW; 07-23-2006 at 01:13 PM.

  28. #28
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    Default Latest Update

    You guys are great; I'm certain we'll come up with the perfect design.

    Here's what we know now:

    Stitch and glue for quick and easy building

    Lightweight, warped-plane hull of about 10 degrees deadrise with a sharp entry.

    What else? What are the compromises so far?

    Jeff

    Limited up sweep of buttocks lines to help in a following sea.

    Most likely outboard powered between 50 and 70 hp.

    Between 25 and 27 feet with no more than 8 ft beam.

    Trunk cabin (personal preference) accepting the fact that there may be some sitting comfort issues with the v-bunks.
    "You only live once--but if you work it right, once is enough."

  29. #29
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    Here's what we know now:
    Stitch and glue for quick and easy building
    You may 'know' this but others may have a different version of reality. I just hope if you find the design you want and it's not stitch and glue you'll still go ahead and build it, and build it as planned, not waste a lot of effort trying to convert a proven framed design to some percieved stitch and glue panacea.

  30. #30
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    Sorry, was trying to summarize what I thought the consensus was.......maybe I jumped the gun there.

    I don't object to a framed boat, in fact I'm a little more secure in my feelings when I know the glue is backed up by a big nail or screw I just whacked into a solid frame.

    So construction method is not established yet.

    Thanks!!!

    Jeff
    "You only live once--but if you work it right, once is enough."

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimD
    Sam Devlin's 25' Surf Scoter will cruise at around 20 knots:

    http://devlinboat.com/dcsurfscoter25.htm
    I believe the guy asked for shallow draft

  32. #32
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    [quote=jlapratt]You guys are great; I'm certain we'll come up with the perfect design.

    Here's what we know now:

    Stitch and glue for quick and easy building

    stich and glue isnt quicker or easier than any other method and its damn messy, nasty, and unprofessional as a building method

    Lightweight, warped-plane hull of about 10 degrees deadrise with a sharp entry.

    why a warped plane? why not a monohedron hull if you want easy?

  33. #33
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    [quote=SailBoatDude]Take a look here.


    You do not have permission to view this image

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimD
    You may 'know' this but others may have a different version of reality. I just hope if you find the design you want and it's not stitch and glue you'll still go ahead and build it, and build it as planned, not waste a lot of effort trying to convert a proven framed design to some percieved stitch and glue panacea.
    I seriously doubt that you will and can build a 24 foot traditional boat, such as the mockup or BlueJacket configuation, that will meet and fit the trailable, towable with ease guidlines and weigh as little as Bluejacket does and power it with the same close to its speeds.

  35. #35
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    Default Stay on point

    "...stich and glue is unprofessional..." We're not here to debate the origins or personal preferences to building methods; nor hold the traditional vs. modern fight, again. Please.

    Being lightweight is the issue, so I'm thinking some kind of either stitch and glue or cold molding is necessary. At least using plywood.

    As I understand it, a monohedron hull carries the transom deadsrise constant through the back 1/2 of the hull or so; where the transom deadrise in a warped plane hull starts changing a bit sooner. This contributes to lesser deadrise aft enabling shallower draft and an easier planing surface.

    If the above is correct, then why chose monohedron?

    Jeff
    Last edited by jlapratt; 07-24-2006 at 07:43 AM.
    "You only live once--but if you work it right, once is enough."

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