Battery Lead to Lead Keel ???

[emichaels]

Came across a couple of old large batteries cleaning out the barn, knowing I have a keel to cast this winter I was wondering If the lead can be properly salvaged from these batteries to add to the pile.

Chemically speaking is there something to do to properly nuetralize the acid and making it "clean" enough to melt ???

Thanks,

Eric

[George Ray]

Technically there is lead in them batteries but when discharged and or when old and tired the lead is another form (chemists where are you?). However, if your feeling spunky and careful you could pull one apart and pick thru the bits and the leadish looking stuff can go in a pot and give it a melting try. Any of the non-lead or transformed to something else lead will likey just sink or float (probably float) and you can skim and pour ingots into a cheap muffin pan from the dollar store (soot the pan up good as a release agent).

OH! bye the way, try not to poison yourself, your neighbor's, or the environment. I will be interested to see/read about your experience.

Might be worth charging before breaking up in an attempt to convert as much "STUFF" as possible back to purish lead.



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http://www.powerstream.com/BatteryFAQ.html

Lead–acid Cells

Anode: Sponge metallic lead

Cathode: Lead dioxide (PbO2)

Electrolyte: Dilute mixture of aqueous sulfuric acid

Applications: Motive power in cars, trucks, forklifts, construction equipment, recreational water craft, standby/backup systems

Used mainly for engine batteries, these cells represent over half of all battery sales. Some advantages are their low cost, long life cycle, and ability to withstand mistreatment. They also perform well in high and low temperatures and in high-drain applications. The chemistry lead acid battery half-cell reactions are:

half-reaction V vs SHE
Pb + SO42- —> PbSO4 + 2e- .356
PbO2 + SO42- + 4H+ + 2e- —> PbSO4 + 2H2O 1.685

There are a few problems with this design. If the cell voltages exceed 2.39 V, the water breaks down into hydrogen and oxygen (this so-called gassing voltage is temperature dependent, for a chart of the temperature dependence click here ). This requires replacing the cell's water. Also, as the hydrogen and oxygen vent from the cell, too high a concentration of this mixture will cause an explosion. Another problem arising from this system is that fumes from the acid or hydroxide solution may have a corrosive effect on the area surrounding the battery.

These problems are mostly solved by sealed cells, made commercially available in the 1970s. In the case of lead acid cells, the term "valve-regulated cells" is more accurate, because they cannot be sealed completely. If they were, the hydrogen gas would cause the pressure to build up beyond safe limits. Catalytic gas recombiners do a great deal to alleviate this problem. They convert the hydrogen and oxygen back into water, achieving about 85% efficiency at best. Although this doesn't entirely eliminate the hydrogen and oxygen gas, the water lost becomes so insignificant that no refill is needed for the life of the battery. For this reason , these cells are often referred to as maintenance-free batteries. Also, this cell design prevents corrosive fumes from escaping.

These cells have a low cycle life, a quick self discharge, and low energy densities (normally between 30 and 40 Wh/kg). However, with a nominal voltage of 2 V and power densities of up to 600 W/kg, the lead-acid cell is an adequate, if not perfect, design for car batteries.

[John E Hardiman]

OH! bye the way, try not to poison yourself, your neighbor's, or the environment.

Uhhhhh... see the PbSO4 in the above chemical reaction balance? I bet the thermal breakdown strips the moisture out of the hydrous cake and air and you get PbO2 + H2SO3 which is unstable and breaks down by itself. 3H2SO3 => 2H2SO4 + H2O + S.

Ventilate.....a lot!

[Brian Palmer]

Most of the lead in a battery is lead oxide powder that CANNOT be melted back to lead metal at the melting temperature of lead. It has to be smelted to reduce it to lead metal at about 2500 degrees F under carefully controlled oxygen levels in the presence of certain fluxes. You cannot do this at home.

I know this because I worked on a project for EPA developing environmental standards for secondary lead smelters that recycle batteries.

The best thing to do is to take these to a store that sells batteries, get any core value (maybe $5 per battery) and buy some lead metal. Or just give them the battery store and be done with it. The store will return it to a smelter for recycling.

The secondary lead smelters will recycle the acid, plastic, and the lead to make new batteries. This is the best thing to do for you and the environment. Taking a battery apart for the metal will leave you with a little bit of metal and a big mess of broken plastic, lead powder, and acid.

End o' rant.

-- Brian

[willmarsh3]

I picked up 50 lbs of used lead weights at a tire store - the first one I tried. It took all of 5 minutes of my time and no money.

BTW do you have pictures?

Will.

[TMny]

Concurring with above posts, tire weights a better deal. Some/most(?) automotive batteries have other metals mixed in... .
Having thought about this, you really want to inquire of someone knowledgeable in the arts of casting keels, and lead foundry work , and maybe get info on the alloy composition (analysis) of the source material, and its compatibility with the desired cast composition....

[tony morales]

How much lead do you need and when do you need it? I may have access to 28,000 lbs of soft lead from a Herreshoff which was cut up, and I'm trying to ID. I have to make a couple of trips back and forth to New England with a trailer for my boat and could possible drop some to you when traveling north. I'm presently in the N.E. until mid-sept., but will be traveling after that time moving my boat. My e-mail is moralest@hot mail.com or here on the forum is fine. This offer is open also to others!