Meadowlark

[cdragon]

Anyone have any firsthand (or a close secondhand) experience with the L. Francis Meadowlark? I am considering one and would be most interested in comments and opinions.

[George Ray]

There is a Medow Lark in Charleston, SC in Elliott's Cut (ICW) between the Ashley and Stono rivers. It sits in a boat lift. Very nice looking boat.

[Dave Lesser]

A forumite named Figmental has a Meadowlark. You might be able to contact him by private message, but I don't think he has posted for a while. Here's a previous Meadowlark thread:

http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/vbulle...ad.php?t=12834

[cdragon]

Thanks for the link-did not find that with the search thingie-still hoping someone who has some experience with the boats-the boat I am considering is a Vaitses 37'-and might chime in

[Meadowlarker]

How nice to see another meadowlark thread. This is Figmental using another handle since I'm in Florida being with my mother during her passing and I don'r remember my at home password and cannot access it from here.
I took my meadowlark, Patience Green, on a 7 week cruise this winter to the Exuma Islands of the Bahamas. Now I want to move there and stay. I am extremely happy with the design and her preformance. I got 15 miles per gallon of diesel at hull speed. The 2' draft allowed me to access places and anchorages that only catamarans can go. On a beam reach she'll do 8 mph with 2 reefs in both main and mizzen. And she draws a lot of compliments from fellow boaters such as "Handsome", and, " I am jealous of your draft".
The cabin headroom is 6' and I am 6'3" so I am planning to raise the coachroof 6" this summer. She does have more weather helm than I want so I am also planning a 7' bowsprit and second jib to help straighten her out.
A gent named George Nasser in Key Largo has started up a Meadowlark owners list and he lists several for sale. If you google Meadowlark you will turn up several messages where he is seeking out owners for inclusion. Seems like about twenty or more meadowlarks are on the list.
Questions?
David

[David Gilroy]

I sail past one that's moored in Guilford every time I go sailing, and it's always a delight to see it and speak with the sailorly owner who's sometimes on board. Besides, a boat named after one of the Harlem Globetrotters has to be good.

[George Ray]

Thanks for the pictures and the info

[Steve Paskey]

In September 2004 Figmental wrote:
Bless you Dave Lesser! I fly out to Florida tomorrow to take posession of the Meadowlark in that ad you alerted me to. She was a victim of Frances and is suffering a dual dismasting and has bridge bruises aft up high port side. But she is intact and can operate under power for now. We have a plan to get her out of the mangroves on the 11:00 AM Wed. full moon high tide.

Figmental, that's a beautiful boat. When you get home, I'd love to hear the story of how you got from the mangroves to where you are now. (P.S. -- I'm sorry to hear about your mom.)

[rbgarr]

Does anyone in FLA know how the Golden Ball retrieved through WB's "Save A Classic" is faring?

http://peacecorpsonline.org/messages...9/2021012.html

[cdragon]

Thanks for your posting Figmental-looks pretty nice tucked into those tidal flats!
Is your boat a Vaitses boat or is she wood? She has a different house than any others I've seen and it looks like a center cockpit arrangement?
How do you find her upwind abilities?
Lots more questions, maybe I should email you directly...

[Steve Paskey]

Does anyone in FLA know how the Golden Ball retrieved through WB's "Save A Classic" is faring?

Roger Allen at the Florida Maritime Museum in Cortez would know the answer.

[Meadowlarker]

Thanks Steve, for your thoughts.
Sorry about the double post folks, but, yes, this is a 37' Vaitses build from 1977 or 78. I'm told she is the only meadowlark with forward and aft cabins which gives her a center cockpit layout. The engine room is a passageway to the aft cabin and has about 4'6" headroom. The engine and shaft are offset to starboard and I'm sure contribute to the good fuel efficiency by not hitting the rudder. That said, she does require a bit of special handling waiting for bridges and docking. L. F.H. speaks to the issue in his Common Sense of Yacht Design and regards it highly. She has a W30 Westerbeke of 27 horses.

I thought later of one complaint of the design I have,,, The strakes just above the waterline that the leeboards bear on are noisy at anchor. Like a washing machine, glug, glug, and glug. If they were lower the fasteners would below the waterline and if they were higher the leverage would stress the leeboard mounts more. I think if they were made of tube or pipe the noisiness would be much reduced and at some point I'll try that.
CDragon, I think we can continue to discuss the design here since it was designed as a wood hull and I do have rotten wood in the rails and sidedecks to deal with still.
Upwind ability is not the best but the sails are baggy old ones and have poor airfoil shape. I did remove the jibboom due to poor sheeting angle and that inproved performance remarkably but she still needs travelers or such on the sheets. In my wildest dreams I want to put a sliding gunter rig on the main using a windsurfer mast that I have for the gunter, also full length battens ala Utilis of Ralph Munroe. Gotta go, more later.

[cdragon]

Happy to hear any and all of your comments-in regards to the leeboard chines gurgling-does she roll alot at anchor I wonder? Narrow boats have that tendency...I guess I am most interested in her overall sailing characteristics-is the boat fun and handy to sail or clumsy? How does she go in the light, the chop-seems like she'll go downwind in breeze pretty well and will motor well, but I'd love to hear any comments on all the rest.

[catndahats]

Hi there,

I must be tired tonight...this is my 3rd attempt to post, and keep getting bumped offline.

I am restoring a 50'ish year old wooden Meadowlark along Galveston Bay. Mine's built to L. F. Herreshoff's plans and is mahogany and teak. I'm replacing some planks, frames, and rebuilding the masts and cabin. It's a long process...so I sail my 24' Ruell Parker sharpie in the meantime.

A fella named "Geo" has an owner's association and website you might be interested in. The membership reflects all the variations on construction (ie: 33ft / 37ft, glass, wood, plywood/glass, homebuilt, Vaitsies' yard, etc...) and some boats for sale.

Here's the link:

http://community2.webtv.net/geosite/...sel/index.html

They are awesome boats, and according to Herreshoff they are delightful sailers--- I'd agree with his opinion! The plans and his reflections are in his book "Sensible Cruising Designs." The book is a good investment to anyone with an interest in the design.

Hey the photos posted today are awesome...gawd, I'd like to live there too.

Welcome to the club!

Best regards,
Nate

[Meadowlarker]

Here is George's site for his Meadowlark "Whipray". http://community-2.webtv.net/geosite...sel/index.html There is an email address for George on it as well as an article on Allan Viatses.
Nate, it's good to hear you are restoring a meadowlark, please post the site you mentioned again, I can't get it to work yet. Any photos of your craft? I love to see some.
In the Bahamas there are some fierce tidal currents around the islands so the winds and seas seldom come from the same direction. That does lead to rolling at anchor and with no underbody projections to dampen the rolling down my boat can have you bracing yourself in the bunk wishing for morning or at least a tide change and slack water. Those times are rare enough to not interrupt my fun and with 2' draft a less exposed anchorage can usually be found and it's nearly always more private and quiet. These boats do indeed fulfill L.F.H's offer of nearly carefree cruising and sound sleeping out of harm's way. You won't go wrong getting a meadowlark, it is just a fun boat. I love poking into tiny places and cruising close to islands without worry. It's a boat for goats in a world of sheep.

[PVanderwaart]

my understanding (from written comments by Phil Bolger) is that the extra length is an extension of the stern. He did not give a reason, nor an opinion on whether it was a good idea. He did say that the leeboards as originally drawn are too short. There are lots of ways to hang leeboards, and Bolger's favorite is not the one used on Meadowlark. If you don't know, Bolger is big fan of the general type, and has designed several boats of greater or lesser similarity, so the differences are to be understood as quibbles between experts.

[cdragon]

Interesting about the leeboards, Figmental or anyone else...have you found the boards to be short? I'd guess that means going sideways upwind or lesser upwind ability...

[John B]

I do recall I comment in a WB or Herreshoff book about the design length of the boards being short. IIRC it was a " I should have made them longer" type quote by LFH...

Fantastic shots in the bahamas!!

[catndahats]

FYI,
Seadragon, not sure which Meadowlark you are considering, but I just saw one for sale over on the Latitudes & Attitudes classifieds website. It was was posted by Geo of the Meadowlark Owner's association. Hope this helps.
Nate

[leaotis]

The photo with the pigs is surreal.

[JamesCaird]

Hi Guys-Always have loved the Meadowlark idea but there have been many mods-some good (and good looking), some not so. It is indeed L.F. Herreshoff, (not anyone named "Nate"). There are many good stories. For a few years in the 70's we were the "Meadowlark Capital of the World" with 4 in for the winter up in Pocasset at the Head of Buzzards Bay. Bucky Barlow build #1, the Loon, in 1949 or so and Alan Vaitses build several in wood before moving to GRP. I had a beauty myself for a while named Shoal Waters. She belonged to Mait Edey of E&Duff. She was a great sailor, dry, surprisingly fast towindward and a streak off the wind. Steered very well on all points (you can balance things nicely with the boards and the ketch rigs)-would sail hands off for hours. It was always wonderful to get up in the corners of those quiet anchorages where noone else could go. I saw many of the various alterations and have my ideas of what worked out best: for me, she is best stretched out 3 feet by increasing overall length proportinately, not just adding the counter stern. The extra 3 feet goes to a bridge deck which greatly increases strength of this long narrow hull. Also gives you a better place to stuff a small engine. I loved the short gaffs.
Other notes?: Meadowlark was not in "The Compleat Cruiser", the featured vessels were of course Rozinante and "Viator" as sort of larger H-28. The leeboard boat was "Tranquillo" which was more of a Golden Ball prototype. FYI-thefirst Meadowlark was builtby Bucky Barlow, circa 1949-50 for Bobby Gibbs of Pocasset who, a few years later, commisioned him to build Golden Ball. Could have been 1960 by then. HOpe this is of interest /Cheers/JC

[catndahats]

Thanks for the information and history, JC. By chance, would you know the history and location of any of the early models? How have they faired over time?

I think that I have the only one down here in Texas. Anyway, enough of this internet stuff...I'm going sailing!

Best regards,
Nate (no relation to the Herreshoffs )

[Paul Fitzgerald]

JC, I have often wondered if the boat was tender, what was your experience? How far would you take one offshore?
And do your comments about adding a few feet imply you would consider an outboard in a well?

[Meadowlarker]

The folder I got with my boat speaks of an article written in Cruising World in their March 1997 issue about a Tasman Sea storm. I have since aquired a copy and not found the article or any mention. I inagine the date of the issue or even the name of the magazine was incorrect.
So I wonder if you guys down under know of this storm and have seen such an article? I'd love to read it. My experience of a sharpie in seas is they ride like corks and will skid down a wave face rather than broach. That was with a 28'er and a tiller. This 37'er and wheel steering will be much tougher I predict to bring about on the crests to cut gently across the backsides than the Egret. We'll see someday.

Please anyone? When was the big Tasman Sea storm?

Thanks, David

[Nick Scheuer]

I find that I like Bolger's rigid pivot mounts in both Dovekie and Shearwater. One must hope for a stout enough layup in the fiberglass hulls, because the topsides will flex a bit in a seaway.

Herreshoff's T-bolt leeboard pivort seems quite a lot more suitable for a panked hull for several reasons. First, the windward board will just swing out away from the hull, so might just as well raise it. as for the leeward board, the T-bolt is anchored near the rail where the hull structure thends to be most rigid, and the rub rail is down low by the chine, where the hull is also rigid.

Some of Bolger's larger plywood leeboarders. like Martha Jane, have leeboards hung on large-diameter rope, immitating the Herreshoff idea.

Moby Nick

[John B]

When was the big Tasman Sea storm?

Now?last week? last month.. last year, every year.
Mostly people remember the ones that people were killed in. In the 70's sometime a boat called Smackwater Jack was lost with one of our country's promising young designers Paul Whiting. IIRC, the same storm also killed 3 generations of the Lidgard family in the pacific and a friend of mine ( who was cruising offshore in an Alden) was rolled but they saved themselves.

But yes, there was a bomb in the late 90's and thats probably the one you are looking for.I'll look for it.

[Geo]

Herreshoff Meadowlark Page
http://community-2.webtv.net/geosite...off/index.html

[JamesCaird]

HI Guys-Meadowlarks-what a great thread! T answer some of the questions from my experience.
1. Any Originals around?-I think they are all originals, most being owner built, apart from the Vaitses model. I have not been around New England for a few years so have lost track of many old boats but am apt to check around. Old SHOALWATERS (1964) was down just South of Annapolis a few years ago. She was nicely built by a man (name escapes me) from New Bedford. The details were especially well proportioned and finished in a sort of workboat/yacht sort of way.
2.-Offshore? I would sail of to the Bahamas (many do) but probably not head for Bermuda. Does that sound right?
3. Too tender?-I don't think so. With the ballast outside and some inside she stands up well to the rig and goes to windward without too much fuss. I remember reefing the mizzen when the wind got up but that eases the steering. On ShoalWaters the tiller was removeable-you could balance her well enough to remove the tiller when sailing to clear cockpit for lunch! Even downwind.
4- Outboards in a well? I suppose you could do it-I don't have any experience with that but think you would not want it too far aft-wouldn't want it going up and down too much in a lump. In calm weather I suppose it would be fine.
5. Bolger Sharpies-have sailed close to Black Gauntlet and watched her go. Also anchored near her at night. Peter Duff usually kept his potatoe chip mizzen set all night to keep the BG from sawing around on the anchor. Her bow and chines rise just above the waterline so at night the small waves get underneath-do I need to say more?. Sailing however, she heels a bit and thus puts the chine in so pounds less. I never had that effect in MLark. MLark will pound sometimes if waves are wrong but usually keeps the bow in the water. Does everyone have similar experience?
Hope that answers some questions/ Cheers/JC

[John B]

I always drag this pic out when ever meadowlark comes up. So sorry in advance if you've seen it a zillion times before.
Its the Herreshoff leeboard ketch.

funny, I took that pic circa 1981 and seeing that boat at that time was an epiphany of sorts.
"Cool, must go sailing" .We bought our boat ( deep draught though) in 1983.

edit. she fell off her legs that night.

I've raced quite a bit against her subsequently in various classic events over the years. Chris has sailed her offshore to the Pacific islands.

[JamesCaird]

John B-Yes, that is a great picture to drag out on the MLark discussions. For what it's worth though, I think it is a version of LFH's design #107. In Sensible Cruising designs she is called "Leeboard Ketch". At 38 ft. she is a carry-on from MLark. She has bent frames, round bilges and a bow more like H-28. The design was actually commissioned (so I understand) by John Hart of Buzzards bay who had one of Vaitses first wooden Meadowlarks, maybe the LarK. I spotted one of this Design #107 in Whangarei NZ over 20 years ago. I had noticed the raked spars and could see the unmistakeable bow profile and bowchocks. I am sorry that I was not able to speak with her owners or builders then. It was a handsome boat and your photos shows it. I do not know of any having been build in USA. Back here it has been interesting to reflect on the evolution of the design from LFH's idea, through John Hart's #107 (which he never built) on to Bobby Gibb's Golden Ball. Those guys all knew each other and sailed in the same waters-no doubt sat around the galley table in some anchorage......... Cheers for now/JC

[cdragon]

JC, You've obviously alot of experience with Meadowlarks-any opinion on the difference between the original boats and the 37' Vaitses boats as far as sailing and handling charateristics? Apparently some got taller spars on the Vaitses 37 footers, some to the original design...wait, one questions rather than tons-what don't you like about the boats, what would you change in a perfect world, what are the weaknesses? sorry that's 3..
Figmental/Meadowlarker, please chime in as well!

[John B]

Yes JC, thats why I called it the leeboard ketch.I should have put quotes eh. I think theres a comment in the book along the lines of " this is a design that deserves to be built".
It was faithful to the design when built but shortly after.. a couple of years, the cockpit was modified to allow the aft cabin idea( like meadowlark). That really made some boat of her. You wouldn't even know there was a cabin there unless you knew to look.
I love it. Grrreat boat.
a coupla shots from christmas 04 for those that like the type

[RodB]

What a great thread, thanks guys for all the great info and photos. Wouldn't it be great to get a quality thread like this for many other traditional designs ...what great reference material for would be builders.

I have never seriously considered leeboards, but this design sure makes one think about it for shallow water cruising. They are quite striking and from the Herreshoff book I didn't realize how good they look. In the future I will try to see one of these and perhaps sail on one...

Are most of these built according to the plans in L Francis's book?


Great photos, thanks

RB

[John B]

a couple more of Tern,the leeboard ketch.
2002

and a race in 2005

responding to pm about her performance.
That last shot shows her on us after about 3 miles of broad and close reaching. She shouldn't really be there but we were sailing a leg badly trimmed ( my fault, I'd told them to not play the jib but we had a windshift and didn't pick it up)and she was going like a train so..
Chris left the leeboards completely off the boat for a year or two and said he didn't really miss them cruising but added that they do definitely help to windward and he's kept them on ever since.
To windward she's quite adequate but not very spectacular and she struggles against the keel boats. To me thats acceptable given the cruising advantages of the shoal draught. As you can see there's nothing much wrong with the way she goes with a cracked sheet.Probably doing 8 there.

[DanO]

Talk about coincidence...

While motoring my 24' YankeeYacht (fiberglass) sloop out to my mooring in Plymouth Harbor today, I saw what I believed to be a Meadowlark, named (oddly enough) "Meadowlark." Beautiful looking boat. I asked the guy on board if it was a Herreshoff, and he replied "I have no idea what this is...I'm just here to bail it out!"

Nice looking, carvel planked boat!


Dan