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Thread: Debunking the "can't epoxy glue white oak" urban legend

  1. #36
    Join Date
    May 2020
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    Dubai, UAE
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    Default Re: Debunking the "can't epoxy glue white oak" urban legend

    Quote Originally Posted by DMBryant58 View Post
    The story I heard was that the white oak/epoxy problem involves salt water. Did you happen to test it with sea/salt water?
    Well, the OP first posted this in 2002.

    He launched his boat in 2015. His last post here was in 2017.

    You may need to draw your own conclusions...!

  2. #37
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    Sep 2004
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    Utah and PNW
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    Default Re: Debunking the "can't epoxy glue white oak" urban legend

    Wow, an old thread with The Chemist, Dave Fleming, and Cecil Borel.

    Has anyone heard from Cecil since he launched his Kahuna in 2017?

  3. #38
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    Mar 2021
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    Oriental, NC ,usa
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    Default Re: Debunking the "can't epoxy glue white oak" urban legend

    Quote Originally Posted by DMBryant58 View Post
    "So I did my own test. I roughed up two pieces of white oak and saturated them with laminating epoxy and let 'em soak. I also saturated a piece of plywood so as to prevent glue starving. I then mixed a batch of their Superbond Adhesive and glued the plywood to the oak and two pieces of oak together. Clamped enough to keep together without squezing all the googe out.

    So to the urban legend of not using epoxy with white oak, I say BUNK!!!! Take your time, use dry wood, rough it up, wipe it down and enjoy the fruits of your labor.
    "

    The story I heard was that the white oak/epoxy problem involves salt water. Did you happen to test it with sea/salt water?

    David Bryant
    Ipswich, MA[/QUOTE]

    Rather than debunking a legend, I think he proved it has merit. Who would ever in the normal sense, go thorough all that preparation for normal joint? Like many here I have epoxy glued white oak but I do it with care because I trust the craftsman who explained why it was not the best.

  4. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    New Preston, CT
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    145

    Default Re: Debunking the "can't epoxy glue white oak" urban legend

    If you were to use the one part glue by the name of Grizzly Glue you would have never had a problem to begin with. I have built 4 boats using Grizzly (Not Gorilla) and never looked back. D.H. Hyland put me onto it. Wonderful stuff. Wooden boat tested its strenth and it broke the machine. Greg Rosell wrote it and published the test in Wooden Boat Magazine. Try it. Epoxy still has its uses, but this will take over about 95% of all your gluing needs.

  5. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    New Preston, CT
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    145

    Default Re: Debunking the "can't epoxy glue white oak" urban legend

    By the way...Grizzly loves wet white oak. I have made many a steam bent stem and keel Never broke apart anywhere.

  6. #41
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    Sep 2010
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    Bainbridge Island WA
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    Default Re: Debunking the "can't epoxy glue white oak" urban legend

    Not having heard of this "grizzly glue" I turned to google.


    Grizzly Glue is a hybrid marijuana strain. We're still learning about the flavors and effects of Grizzly Glue - if you've smoked, dabbed, or consumed this strain before, tell us about it by leaving a review.


    As much as I like epoxy I do keep some Tightbond around for those times when I want to glue something up and paint it within a day or two.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  7. #42
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    319

    Default Re: Debunking the "can't epoxy glue white oak" urban legend


  8. #43
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
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    "Driftless" Wisconsin
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    Default Re: Debunking the "can't epoxy glue white oak" urban legend

    Quote Originally Posted by thechemist View Post
    Epoxy products that have a critical mixing ratio are more sensitive to traces of acid in the wood, as a usually-more-right-than-wrong generality.

    Sufficient acid in the wood can definitely screw up the cure, and then the result is "It can't be glued".
    White oak can be counted on to have tannic acid (a plant polyphenol) in it to some degree. Other common woods that can have it are red oak, redwood, cherry, walnut and some species broadly included under mahogany.

    If it can be stained using iron salts or ammonia it's tannic acid that facilitates the staining.

    With epoxies, the hardeners used are most commonly alkaline in nature, sometimes quite strongly. So the reputation of white oak not being compatible with epoxy may stem from the reaction between epoxy hardener being partly neutralized by any acid content in the wood being bonded.

    The tip frequently given to overcome this is to wipe first with alcohol before bonding. Alcohols are alkaline chemicals so the tip may have merit when an alcohol wipe neutralizes to some degree what acids may be present in and on the woods being bonded.

    Another potential choice might be a solution of common baking soda in water but this of course takes longer to evaporate.
    Last edited by sp_clark; 09-16-2021 at 07:34 AM.

  9. #44
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    Dec 2007
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    Northeast Pa and the Mouth of the Myakka River
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    Default Re: Debunking the "can't epoxy glue white oak" urban legend

    20200423_162313.jpg20200423_162457.jpg
    i apologize for the sideways photos but here's a quick and dirty test I did a few years back. White Oak and Totalboats 2 to 1 epoxy. 1x3s glued together no screws. I believe the weight was approx. 65lbs (dumbbells and lead in bottom of bucket) **** side note. I did the same thing a few days later with Titebond III adhesive and had the same result. Looking at the pics now I'm also impressed with the handle on the bucket, lol.

  10. #45
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
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    Padanaram, MA USA
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    10,075

    Default Re: Debunking the "can't epoxy glue white oak" urban legend

    On the performance of epoxy adhesives, my confidence is with the people who are schooled in the chemistry and test under lad conditions.
    https://www.epoxyworks.com/index.php/white-oak-redux/

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