Penitrol?

[Whidbey Wherry]

I have read of using Penitrol for both primer and paints. I asked my paint guy at "the painting place", but he was no help. I bought a can, but what does it do? The can doesn't tell me too much.

Jerry

[BillyBudd]

George Kirby of Kirby Paints, probably the King of Marine Paint providers, turned me on to Penetrol. Great stuff. Just like it says on the can, it smooths things out, makes the flow go, does away with brush marks.

[George Ray]

I have used it as primer and protective 'oil' and my wife uses it to restore the shine of fiberglass gelcoat.

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Notes: Google Info:
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http://www.flood.com/Flood/CustomerS...netrol+FAQ.htm

Frequently Asked Questions About Penetrol

Q: What is Penetrol?
A: Penetrol is a paint conditioner to be added to oil or alkyd based paints to make painting projects flow more smoothly. Penetrol reduces brush marks and leveling problems while improving penetration and adhesion of the paint.

Q: What’s the difference of adding Penetrol or mineral spirits/paint thinners to oil based paint?
A: Penetrol is a conditioner not a thinner. Penetrol will not cut or thin the paint like paint thinners do. Penetrol maintains and fortifies the qualities already inherent in the paint.

Q: Will Penetrol help when applying a spray application of oil based paint?
A: Yes, Penetrol will actually reduce the heat and friction created when spraying an oil based paint. This will not only allow you to spray at a lower pressure, but will also put less stress on your spray tip, saving you time and money.

Q: How much Penetrol should I use?
A: When you begin to paint, if the paint does not brush or roll easily; if it drags or sets too fast, add Penetrol until the paint works smoothly. Start with 10% Penetrol; if the paint continues to pull, more Penetrol may be added, do not exceed 1 quart Penetrol per 1 gallon oil/alkyd paint.

Q: What is a paint conditioner?
A: A paint conditioner is an ingredient added to paint when surface or weather conditions prevent the paint from performing as it was formulated. The conditioner helps the paint to overcome the negative situation. Often surface conditions such as excessive chalk and high porosity or weather conditions such as cold or hot temperatures, low humidity, etc. challenge the performance of a coating that was formulated to perform satisfactorily under average conditions. Thinner and water evaporate when containers are left open in hot, dry weather, causing the paint to drag. Cold weather turns paint sluggish, and again, it resists best efforts to apply a smooth coating. When the substrate is dry and porous it will suck the solvent from the paint and cause improper film formation. Most latex paints don't wet chalk or dust as well as oils do, and adhesion can be poor at best. The right paint conditioner can help overcome these problems and can also help you produce a more professional-looking job at the same time.

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http://faculty.icc.edu/eockerhausen/tips.asp

A good primer for your metal work is a product called, Penetrol. If you don't want your metal work to rust, apply two coats of Penetrol, as soon as, you have finished your project.
If you want the metal to rust, but don't want the rust to stain your clothes or hands, a coat of Penetrol will seal the rusted look and stop any chance of rust coming off where it's not wanted.
If you decide to paint your metal work the Penetrol coating will make the painting easier and aid in preventing rust after you have painted. .

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http://web.continuouswave.com/ubb/Fo...ML/005888.html

Boston Whaler forum thread:
Penetrol is good to put on a hull if you want to sell the boat. Your boat will look new for about a week but the shine will just not last. It sure does look great when you put it on though. There is no substitute for polishing. Penetrol is a great "trick" that people and marinas use to fool people to sell ugly boats. It makes even the chalkiest hull look good.......but not for the long haul. Go ahead and wax your boat. You will be happier with the results.
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[uncas]

I don't have a can handy so I can't read the back
Can I add this to to Topsides ( interlux ) paint?
Uncas is an off color, only sold in qts. Would be nice if I could stretch it a little.
ps,,,I use the tip and roll method normally

[pcford]

I have read of using Penitrol for both primer and paints. I asked my paint guy at "the painting place", but he was no help. I bought a can, but what does it do? The can doesn't tell me too much.

Jerry

Penetrol is fine with an old fashioned (primitive?) paint like Kirbys. With modern paints you may have problems, especially with polyurethanes. You will get pinholes in the surface.

The first commandment of quality finishing is "Thou shalt follow the instructions on the can."

Kirbys has a great palette for traditional boats, otherwise I know no reason to use it. Certainly no professional painter I know does. It is a regional product of the Northeast; it has immoderate enthusiasts on this forum.

[JormaS]

Is it true that Penetrol is the same thing as Owatrol?

[J. Dillon]

Jamie,

I always use Penatrol to Interlux brightside paint. It works great . How much to add. That you have to do by "feel". I do not get the marine version I found the regular store bought variety is good for my purposes.

JD

[Les Schuldt]

When painting the topsides (exterior of hull between toerail and waterline) on my 28 footer with marine enamel, I'd pour about 8oz. of paint and one "gloop" (about 3/4 - 1 oz. ?) of Penetrol into a cup and mix well. I would brush the hull vertically and "tip" it horizontally, about 12-18" of hull length at a time.

Additionally, to the finish coats I might add some Z-Spar thinner(3/4oz.)
T-8 on cold, wet days (Accererates drying)
T-10 on normal days (65-80 degrees f. moderate humidity)
T-11 on hot days, low humidity (Slows drying)
The purpose is to always have a "wet" edge, and not have the drying "chase" you. (Remember, Higher Temp = Higher Number) :-)

In the dry Calif. environment I really noticed the decrease in "drag" on the brush. When I got half way around, I'd add another "gloop" of Penetrol, or on really dry or breezy days additional may be needed. Don't get carried away with additives. If you get beyond about 15-20% you'll probably have trouble. Better to start with a fresh batch.

The combination of these additives and a little good technique should yield a finish that approaches LPU / Sprayed finish.

(Edit) Regarding modern LPUs, I will defer to others on whether Penetrol works. (No experience)

BTW... That's the SAE "Gloop", not metric.

[Bruce Hooke]

The spring I worked in a boatyard as a painter (in the late 80's), I was taught to add a bit of Penetrol to both paint and varnish. However, as others have also said, I would not use Penetrol in anything that is not a traditional oil based paint or varnish (like Kirbys or brightside).

[uncas]

Thanks Jack!
Uncas' sides are all sanded...I just have to get up there and do the rest.
I wish Interlux would sell Seatle Gray in Gal.

[RodB]

I've used Penetrol lots here in hot Texas with Kirby's paint... and find it does a great job helping the paint flow out well and allieviate the brush marks.

I think it does a better job than just thinning with turps etc.


RB

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

I use Penetrol with varnish. It surely helps on a hot day.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Is it true that Penetrol is the same thing as Owatrol?

I believe that it is.

Anyway, I now use Owatrol "religiously" on topsides (I use Epifanes alykd gloss paints) and the results have been consistently good.

[JJBoatman]

Can't say enough good things about penitrol. In traditional use helps flow, controls brush lines, thins and forgives. A must have for the finisher, haven't run across Owatrol but will look.

[pcford]

Penetrol is incompatible with some types of paints...and I am not talking about LPUs. I had problems with single part polyurethanes.

Another thing the Penetrol boosters have not mentioned is that it changes the color of the finish if applied to mixture too generously.

If you are using a _very_ old fashioned paint, it might work. But for myself, I follow the instructions on the can.

[Hufflepuff]

Working aboard Irving Johnson out in LA we used Penetrol pretty religiously. On brightwork finished with tung oil the first few coats would be mixed about 50/50 with later coats being heavier on the oil. I believe the theory was to have more oil get pulled into the grain and then be able to achieve heavier build up with the later coats.
We also added it to varnish. I'm less sure of the mix, but I think it was pretty heavy on Penitrol. You definately need all the drying time you can get in that climate.
I also saw Penitrol used as a standalone finish for brightwork. On the mahogany rails it produced a very intense red. Personally I prefered the deeper richer tones of the tung oil but quite a few people liked the look of Penitrol. The thing is is needed to be refreshed painfully often (3-4 weeks) and the least bit of salt left on the finish would burn through in no time. Just my 2 cents, don't know if it will be useful at all.
Adam

[JimJ]

I always use Penatrol to Interlux brightside paint.

I did that and there a noticeable reduction of the gloss. Where I used #6 brushing thinners in Brightsides this reduction in gloss did not happen.

JimJ

[Wild Wassa]

Penetrol there isn't anything like it when it comes to aiding the painter ... Penetrol makes paint glow and gives enamel paints a fantastic metalic look.

A rotten old get coat stripe filled with epoxy and glass macros and being sanded.





Poly/oil blend enamel from Norglass Marine (with 25mls of Penetrol added to 250 mls of paint), two coats for the stripe. I like to wait a week between applying each poly/oil blend coat (with penetrol added) and sand each of the coats well and uniformly with #400, because Penetrol penetrates and the top coat is the telegraph of each of the underlying coats' prep ...the photo below really isn't an axe murder.





... the Platinum bottom is International's Perfection (with no additives).





Even Blind Freddy likes what he sees when he uses Penetrol. Blind Freddy only uses a brush though ... he's far too myopic to spray.

Warren.

[pcford]

Like I said earlier, I like to follow the instructions on the can. I use the thinners that the manufacturers recommends.

Penetrol is not compatible with all paints.

[Jay Greer]

Penetrol is compatable with traditional oil based paints. We mix up a concoction we call "slide" when doing a brushed finish. Keeping a quart of both turpentine and Penetrol on the scaffold allows us to add the materials one cap at a time as needed to keep the brushing quality of the finish compatable with temperature and humidty as the job progresses.
JG

[pcford]

Penetrol is compatable with traditional oil based paints. We mix up a concoction we call "slide" when doing a brushed finish. Keeping a quart of both turpentine and Penetrol on the scaffold allows us to add the materials one cap at a time as needed to keep the brushing quality of the finish compatable with temperature and humidty as the job progresses.
JG

Well, I used it with a single part polyurethane and got pin-prick blisters all over the finish because of the Penetrol.

The instructions on the can are all you need for a super finish. The paint manufacturers want you to have a great job.

[Wild Wassa]

'Floetrol' is used with polyurethane, acrylics and most water based materials. One exception is road line marking paint.

Penetrol is for use with oil based materials and alkyds and is also suitable for use with poly/oil blend materials.

Penetrol is also 'perfect' as a direct to metal primer, if oil based materials or poly/oil blend materials are used to cover it.

If you are applying acrylics or polyurethanes over an oil based material, 'ESP' also from Flood Industries, is the go for some painters ... for some painters, but not for me. I'd only use 'ESP' Easy Surface Prep, as an interior application (for acrylic over oil) but not as an external compromise or on a boat.

Warren.

[lesharo]

Why wouldn't linseed oil accomplish the same purpose? Also, what the heck is penetrol anyway, ingreedient wise? Also again, why are the paint manufacturers so adamant about you NOT using it? I have never been a real fan, but I use it; what else are you going to do? When it's hot, you need something to slow it down. Briteside on a hot day is virtually impossibe to brush.

[pcford]

Why wouldn't linseed oil accomplish the same purpose? Also, what the heck is penetrol anyway, ingreedient wise? Also again, why are the paint manufacturers so adamant about you NOT using it? I have never been a real fan, but I use it; what else are you going to do? When it's hot, you need something to slow it down. Briteside on a hot day is virtually impossibe to brush.

Read the can. It says to use Interlux 333 to thin. Penetrol will NOT work with Brightsides since it is a polyurethane.

[lesharo]

I have used penetrol with Briteside routinely with no problem. Since you (PC) are a fan of reading the can;you would then say that it's good to add kerosene to Briteside? Isn't it funny that is okay to use 333 with: Briteside, Toplac, Yacht Enamel, Schooner, Clipper Clear, etc. etc., but that it wouldn't be suitable for some other manufacturers' products.

Doesn't penetrol cause dulling of the gloss? Maybe only if too much is used.

[Nicholas Carey]

Why wouldn't linseed oil accomplish the same purpose? Also, what the heck is penetrol anyway, ingreedient wise? Also again, why are the paint manufacturers so adamant about you NOT using it? I have never been a real fan, but I use it; what else are you going to do? When it's hot, you need something to slow it down. Briteside on a hot day is virtually impossibe to brush.

The MSDS (Canadian) lists the following [hazardous] goodies:

• 57%
  Petroleum Distillates
  Stoddard Solvent
  CAS #64742-47-8
• < 11%
  Stoddard Solvent
  Mineral Spirits
  CAS #8052-41-3
• < 0.1%
  Ethyl Benzene
  Ethyl Benzene
  CAS #100-41-4

But they only total up to a noodge over 2/3 of the product. I'm pretty sure that Penetrol isn't 1/3 water, so there must be other [supposedly non-hazardous] stuff in it that's probably some sort of hydrocarbon.

The military MSDS for the stuff lists the same ingredients but the second ingredient is listed as 1% rather than "less than 11%".

The NIH MSDS for the stuff lists the following:

• Ethylbenzene
  (CAS#: 000100-41-4). < 0.1%
• Stoddard solvent (CAS#: 008052-41-3). < 1%
• Distillates, petroleum, hydrotreated light (CAS#: 064742-47-8). 57%

I suspect the rest is some sort of light oil or similar.

[Bob Cleek]

"Kirbys has a great palette for traditional boats, otherwise I know no reason to use it. Certainly no professional painter I know does. It is a regional product of the Northeast; it has immoderate enthusiasts on this forum."

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I know a few pros who use Kirby's red and white lead. I suspect that few pros use his enamels out here because they haven't the time to wait for the delivery of an order when they can grab a can of Interlux or ZSpar off the shelf at the local chandlery.

PC, what are the pros using up north where you are? Interlux and ZSpar are pretty common down in the Bay Area. However, they are getting ever more expensive, while never any better. I've gotten as good results from Rustoleum on small jobs, but I wouldn't trust it on a topside job. (No, I'm not a pro, but I do come from a family of well known pros!)

You are right, paint is paint is paint. However, as for Kirby's, you do get great access to advice from George, who knows what he's talking about, and, as you note, they have a great pallette. Color shouldn't be that big a deal, though, since you can color your own white stock easily enough. (Last I checked, WasteMarine wasn't really carrying anything other than white marine enamel anyway.) I have a hunch that Kirby may have a higher solids content than the others. It also has a unique "softer" gloss finish that no one else can duplicate and many prefer to the "hard plastic" gloss of Interlux or ZSpar. Where Kirby's is of real value to those of us in the west, IMHO, is as a source of red and white lead. I know of nowhere else you can find lead paint.

As long as Kirby's is providing something we can't get elsewhere, I'd say it behooves us to patronize him when we can. Failing to do so has cost us the loss of many suppliers. It will be a sad day indeed when there are no George Kirbys and Defender and WasteMarine have us all by the short and curlies.

[Jay Greer]

Well, I used it with a single part polyurethane and got pin-prick blisters all over the finish because of the Penetrol.

The instructions on the can are all you need for a super finish. The paint manufacturers want you to have a great job.

I seriously doubt that the penetrol was the culprit unless your paint is definatly incompatable with it. I would rather suspect that you did not wipe down the hull with thinner prior to sanding in order to remove oily contaminates from the old paint surface. Inadequite sanding and trapped moisture can also cause blistering.
Jay

[Wild Wassa]

" ... unless your paint is definitely incompatible with it."

Penetrol is a conditioner for use with oil based and polyurethane/oil blend materials.

Floetrol is a conditioner for use with polyurethanes and acrylics.

"Paint is paint is paint ..."

Really. As a boat painter, I select the paint of the highest quality available or affordable to the clients and paints with particular characteristics that best suit the working surfaces needed ... that gives me a range of different paint bases and paint with differing and specific characteristics, to choose from.

Warren.

[paladin]

is Penitrol and Penofin marine oil similar products? I've used the Penofin with 400 grit sandpaper to oil finish woodwork, especially on the dink.....works great...

[Nicholas Scheuer]

Duluth, MN some 15 years ago when I was dropping off some old' partly filled paint cans. It appear never to have been opened, so I asked whether I might take it home. "Sure" they said.

I almost never remember to use it, but on one project where I designed and built a custom wall-hung vanity for our for our bathroom, to be painted "eggshell" white, it smoothed out the brush application wonderfully. This was just two years ago, so the stuff seems to have an excellent shelf life.

I've always wondered about one thing; since Penetrol seems to work so well, why don't Paint Manufacturers just mix it in to begin with?

Moby Nick

[Don Z.]

I've always wondered about one thing; since Penetrol seems to work so well, why don't Paint Manufacturers just mix it in to begin with?

Moby Nick

Because the amount required is specific to the conditions when you apply it...