Dennis Conner's "West Coast vs. East Coast" challenge taken up

[rbgarr]

after a fashion....

http://woodenboatracing.blogspot.com/

[Hwyl]

. quoteWith that open-ended challenge, he’s lucky we won’t bring a catamaran!)end quote

That's what I thought too/ Just desserts and all that.

[John B]

yeah, Heh Heh Heh.

[bamamick]

While I applaud Mr.Conner for his work in bringing back 'CBII', after I read the article in WB I asked myself 'why does he always do this?'. Why can't he just graciously enjoy what he's done without turning it in to something (for some of us) distasteful?

I guess that the answer is that DC is DC, always has been and always will be. But for most of us who live with one foot in the world of wooden boats, the idea of a contest for money (it may as well be blood if you read the article in WB) is completely alien to the way that 99% of us think.

Most of us are just pleased as punch that this beautiful boat has been restored. Why demean the effort of so many people with this match race?

The Cotton Blossom II project is important for several reasons. One of which is that it is a wonderful example of a Universal rule boat. One of only a few still in existance. Another is that it's an example of what can be done with the right planning and organization to save these cherished pieces of history. The fact that the owner is a famous sailor has garnered the project a lot of extra publicity in mainline sailing mags here and abroad. That may help other projects (like the Dragon class 'Williwaw', for instance) to find owners who want to share in this kind of adventure.

'Cotton Blossom II' is a wonderful project. So is 'Joyant', the 'P' class sloop. So are all of the 8mR's being brought back around the world. The world of wooden boats is alive and thriving right now. Each one of these projects should be celebrated as being worthwhile accomplishments in their own right. Every one of those owners deserves every bit as much acclaim as Dennis Conner. I just wish that Dennis Conner understood that.

Mickey Lake

[ 07-20-2005, 11:54 PM: Message edited by: bamamick ]

[John B]

in the last plus one Americas cup ... 2000? We had DC come right up on our stern when we were racing. He was in this power catamaran tender they used for the challenge and he stuck right there in our wake only perhaps 10 or 15 ft off for some few minutes it seemed. I can only imagine what he thought of our rumpty sail set and casual trimming. LOL.

[Noah]

What about Bacchant, the 65sq meter out on the great lakes that won the PHRF Chicago-Mac race a couple of years ago? She has some go fast parts (carbon mast), but Dennis got to add 10ft to his stick...

I would think a nice 30 sq could give CBII a run for her money as well.

Over all, I think it's great that people are getting serious about racing classic boats. Maybe this is just the thing that was needed to spark some interest in racing classics in the US.

[Dan McCosh]

He seems oblivious to the actual state of wooden boat racing in general. By only looking at the boutique events in Europe and Newport, etc., he misses the fact that a wooden boat has been up with the prominent winners in the Mackinac for years (Albacore, with five first in class flags). We have an active Q-class boat here that races occasionally; the Toronto Yacht Club, Port Huron and Cleveland all have sizeable meter-class fleets of wooden boats. Given the condition of some of the Cleveland boats, Conner would be lost in the crowd. We could come up with four NY32s. Of course, these are boats that mainly are just sailed and raced--not necessarily museum pieces. Still, at least one Cleveland R-class took first in the Hereschof event out east a couple of years ago. We could even put together a schooner race on the Great Lakes, limited to authenic boats, not re-creations. Is DC's ego really that large?

[Keith Wilson]

With that open-ended challenge, he’s lucky we won’t bring a catamaran!

Well, Nat Herrshoff's Amaryllis II is in the museum in Bristol. It doesn't look like it would take much to get it ready to race, and it could sail rings around Cotton Blossom under most conditions. This is the best picture I could find; it shows the starboard hull, the central pod, and the complex connecting struts. If DC has any sense of humor at all, he'd grin and pay up.



[ 07-21-2005, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

[rbgarr]

CB II vs. JOYANT with "equally matched crews and skippers". That would be a match I'd love to see.

FWIW- CB II was involved in a collision in a race a few weeks ago. Some damage to her rig is what I read, but repaired soon enough.

[Dan McCosh]

A "Q" vs. a "P" class race wouldn't seem all that interesting, considering the size difference. Why not just race against the other "Q" boats out there. I think there are at least two others in the US in comparable condition to Cotton Blossom II. A "Q" is also about the same size as an eight-meter--which is a kind of metric equivalent. You could put up a reasonable fleet of eight-meter and Q-class boats.

[ 07-21-2005, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: Dan McCosh ]

[Noah]

Yeah, the problem is that Dennis has an extra 10ft of mast, and probably much more SA/Dl than any of the other classics. This matters in San Diego where there are light winds.

I still agree that it was a crappy comment on his part, and probably pissed off a whole bunch of meter guys.

I don't think I would want to go up against these guys...this is a pretty boat:


Or these guys:


A bit of match racing:


More images at: http://www.lorc.org/photos.htm

[Dan McCosh]

That's exactly the kind of "classic" racing I was talking about. Several fleets like this keep going, and it's been a great mix of boats and sailing.

[bamamick]

Dan; as I've posted here before, I'd give a lot to go up against DC or anyone in one of those 8mR's. It's my 'lottery' boat. You know, the one you'd get if you hit 'the big one'?.

My time in Cleveland this year was the first time sailing in a 'classic' fleet like that, unless you want to count 25 years in Stars, which are pretty darn classic in their own right, come to think of it.

I think the point that everyone is making here is that the restoration of classic wooden racing boats goes on all of the time. As I said above, these restorations need to be celebrated by all of us all of the time. I appreciate what Dennis Conner has done with Cotton Blossom II, but I also appreciate the way that every International One Design I've ever seen in the Northeast Harbor fleet is maintained. 210's, Beetle Cats, Fireballs, NY30s, 6mRs, yes, Dragons, Wiannos There's a hell of a lot of effort and money put into keeping all of these guys going.

I tell you what I'd really like: I'd like to see Wooden Boat do more coverage on class boats. Maybe just a two page column each issue would be nice? That Solo Swift article awhile back was cool, but the article that has to rank among my all time favorites was the one about the Sonderboots several years ago. What a classic! I'd love to see more things like that.

Mickey Lake

[Don Z.]

Originally posted by Noah:
Yeah, the problem is that Dennis has an extra 10ft of mast, and probably much more SA/Dl than any of the other classics. This matters in San Diego where there are light winds.

I still agree that it was a crappy comment on his part, and probably pissed off a whole bunch of meter guys.

I don't think I would want to go up against these guys...this is a pretty boat:

While I agree DC could have put it better, I'm thinking that he may know a thing or two about metre boats... I mean... total, how many races in 12's do you think he's won, between say, 1974 and 1987?

Of course, I'm just thoroughly grumpy because I'm going to miss the 8mR Worlds this year due to military commitments, compounded by a mast guy who can't seem to get the thing done. I knew I should have learned to weld aluminium along the way...

Please. DC may be acerbic, but between his Star championships, Olympic Bronze, and the 1974, 1977, 1980, and 1987 America's Cup, as well as a decent job pushing an admittedly slower boat to seven races in 1983, I think we can assume the guy knows how to make a boat go fast...

[Dan McCosh]

I guess my reaction to this was the idea that high-level racing in classic boats didn't exist until Conner discovered it. Also--the events in Europe tend to be mainly social, at least according to some local folks I know who participate. These Great Lakes meter-class sailors tend to be from clubs that have have raced mainly against each other for decades, and can get pretty intense. I attended a wooden-boat regatta in Sandusky, where an R-boat from Cleveland finished a lap a head of the second-place boat , in a 2-lap, 24-mile course. And he wasn't the fastest boat in the race. Giving Conner some credit, maybe he is starting up something here that ultimately will raise the interest level in classic restoration. There are two comparable Q-boats in Montana (go figure), and all they need is a ringer crew and skipper.