Oil finishes/Deks Olje

[LLaver]

I have just started on construction of an Iain Oughtred Elf and am trying to decide on the finish to use(eventually).

I would like to bright finish but do not like the idea of constant sanding and varnishing. The idea of an oil finish is appealing as I feel a wipe over with oil on a regular basis is relatively easy maintenance.

I have heard of Deks Olje and was wondering if it would be ok to apply to a glued lapstrake ply construction. Some people seem to believe that an oil finish will help the ply delaminate, is this true?

I am using an Australian made Hoop pine ply (company is Brims) which is a very high quality marine grade ply.

thanks
Lee

[Venchka]

Originally posted by LLaver:
...Some people seem to believe that an oil finish will help the ply delaminate, is this true?

thanks
Lee

If your plywood is as good as the unfinished samples that I have been torturing since 2002, I can't imagine an oil finish contributing to delamination. My "testing" has included multiple boiling-freezing-boiling-baking-freezing-boiling cycles and months in my dishwasher which gets run almost daily.

Iain, in his book, is very fond of Norwegian Varnishing Oil for bright work. His Elf was bright finished throughout. Write to him and ask him what he used. Ask him if he would use it again.

Wayne
In the Swamp.

[Todd Bradshaw]

I think you'll really like it. I'm more fond of the look of Deks #1 (matte finish) though the combination of #1 and Deks #2 will likely give you more protection along with a more glossy look. Application is a snap, you just need to do a lot of it at first and touching up scratches is simple.
From Oughtred's Book: "OIL FINISH eg Deks Olje, Varnol - easy to apply and maintain - excellent penetration and flexibility mean better protection than any of the above" (oil paint, epoxy, polyurethane, water-based 'woodsealer' and exterior woodseal were mentioned).

[pcford]

I would like to bright finish but do not like the idea of constant sanding and varnishing. The idea of an oil finish is appealing as I feel a wipe over with oil on a regular basis is relatively easy maintenance

Why do you think that varnish finish requires "constant sanding and varnish?" If kept out of the sun, as your boat should be, varnish will last years without recoating. That's not constant in my book. Oil is appropriate some places, say the inside of a lapstrake boat. However, it takes as long to prepare and must be recoated more often to stay looking good.

There just ain't any substitute for varnish.

[Gary E]

Why do you think that varnish finish requires "constant sanding and varnish?" If kept out of the sun, as your boat should be

Maybe since you live in an area where it rains a lot, but what if you live in a sunny area and want to float this boat or any boat in the DAY TIME, so it gets PLENTY of SUN and STAYS in the water...what should be used there??

Where should boats ne kept?.. in aboat museum?

I concockeded a mix of Varnish, stain, mineral spirits, and linseed oil. This was wiped on mahogany trim on the OUT SIDE of the boat, and it lived OUTSIDE and IN THE WATER all year.

I hope you have as good a luck with the comercial stuff as I did with the homebrew...

[Todd Bradshaw]

I certainly don't spend anywhere near as long preparing to apply a new coat of Deks Olje as I do getting ready to revarnish, especially if it's the matte finish (Deks#1). Unless something is badly worn or stained a quick rub-down with a Scotchbrite pad is about all it needs, if even that. Perhaps it's because I dislike varnishing as a recreational activity, but the fact that you could literally throw Deks#1 on the boat and end up with a great looking oil finish ranks pretty high in my book. If you had a cheap Wagner Power Painter, you could blast a fresh coat on most dinghies in about five minutes and a big brush won't take an awful lot more time. Wipe it down once it stops absorbing oil and let it dry a day or two and you're back in business. On a small glued-lap boat I doubt you would need to do it more than once or twice a season.

[ 08-03-2005, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: Todd Bradshaw ]

[dmede]

I just finished revarnishing my 15' canoe (entire inside planking as well as gaurds, breasthooks and thwarts) it was a PITA. The fiddlhead Im working on now will definitely be oiled.

Does Deks Olje #1 have UV protection? Or do you need to use the gloss #2 to get it? Is the finish a true matte or is it semi gloss?

[pcford]

quote: Why do you think that varnish finish requires "constant sanding and varnish?" If kept out of the sun, as your boat should be.... unquote

Maybe since you live in an area where it rains a lot, but what if you live in a sunny area and want to float this boat or any boat in the DAY TIME, so it gets PLENTY of SUN and STAYS in the water...what should be used there??

Where should boats ne kept?.. in aboat museum?

Why would you say that? Do you honestly believe that the alternatives are: 1. leave a boat in the sun. 2. Put it in a museum?

The solar energy on a boat in the summer is intense. Put your hand on a car top in the summer; that energy is going into the finish of your boat. A small boat such as the Elf easily could be kept ashore under cover during the summer. If used occasionally it will not dry out. One could also kept the boat in covered moorage. Protection from the sun is why people pay extra for covered moorage, my friend. Or, one could put a cover on the boat.

Oh, and by the way, most people know that it does not rain very much at all in the summertime in Seattle. The weather here is in fact quite sunny.

(But true Seattleites miss the rain.)

I concockeded a mix of Varnish, stain, mineral spirits, and linseed oil. This was wiped on mahogany trim on the OUT SIDE of the boat, and it lived OUTSIDE and IN THE WATER all year.

I hope you have as good a luck with the comercial stuff as I did with the homebrew...

I am glad you are satisfied with the "homebrew" which you "concockeded" (sic). However, most people would be more satisfied with a long lasting varnish finish.

[Todd Bradshaw]

dmede, Deks #1 is a true matte, rich-looking oil finish. I don't know what's in it in terms of UV absorbers, but as long as it's maintained it doesn't seem to look much different as time goes by. I'm not sure I'd leave a boat in the water or out in the weather with only Deks #1 as a protector, but for dinghies or small boats that get covered storage, it holds up quite well, as will a lot of other coatings. The ease of application, fast initial application and drying times compared to many other oil products (it's not still sticky two weeks after application, unlike some oils) easy touch-ups and that nice looking subtle finish are what I have always liked about it. The key to getting lasting results seems to be learning to apply a fresh coat before it starts looking like it needs it. That way you don't need to go in and sand any areas that have dirt ground into them. Since I tend to approach re-varnishing as an unwanted chore, the fact that Deks is easy and quick to re-apply tends to simplify the process to the point where I don't put it off until the last possible moment. I've also used #1 as a base layer for varnish a couple times, instead of priming with diluted varnish. I don't know what the chemistry involved is or whether it's a good idea or not, but it seemed to hold up pretty well. They used to run an ad in WB for Deks Olje showing one of Jay Benford's boats (named Sunrise?? and 34' sticks in my mind, but may not be accurate) that was finished bright with Deks #1 and #2. It was lovely and lived in the Pacific Northwest, so the stuff must work OK out on a mooring as long as it's maintained. I don't think it will ever put the varnish makers out of business and am not claiming that it holds up better, or even as well as a good varnish job, but for classy-looking, easy to maintain small boats I really like the stuff.

[LLaver]

Thanks for the replies everyone.
As to the weather conditions, I live in Brisbane, Australia and summer is an absolute pain, its hot, humid, sweaty and our ozone layer ain't what it used top be. I can get mild sunburn in fifteen minutes during mid summer (I do have red hair and freckles!).
Winter however it Purrrfect around 20 degrees C for days on end with little rain and good winds. [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]

[dmede]

Can Deks be applied over boiled linseed oil? I'm planing on soaking my WRC Fiddlehead canoe with BLO inside and out before painting and oiling. Will the BLO interfere with the Deks?

thanks,
dave

[N. Scheuer]

I've been using Deks #1 and #2 ever since a frind who also had Spruce Spars on his Dovekie told me some years ago that Deks is easier to maintain than harder varnishes, should it be dinged during the sailing season. I haven't been dissapointed.

It takes some time to apply all of the coats that Deks recommends, but I like the result.

Moby Nick

[Todd Bradshaw]

Deks Olje is designed to be a replacement for oils like linseed oil (and in my opinion it's a vastly superior product) and should be applied to bare wood. Linseed under it would do nothing but diminish it's ability to penetrate better, dry faster, resist turning black and repel water better than linseed does. Go buy a small can of Dels#1 and try it on some scrap wood before you start the Fiddlehead. I doubt you'll ever want to use linseed oil on a hull again.

[Bob Cleek]

Deks Olje is a great finish, if you want a finish that looks like Deks Olje. If you want a finish that looks like traditional varnish, varnish is what has to be used.

[Wild Wassa]

LL, G'day Mate. Could I suggest ringing Flood Australia and tell them you are 'thinking about using' Deks Olje. Freecall 1-800-226-113.

Don't be surprised if they send you a sample kit of Deks#1 and Deks#2. Flood are a good company to deal with. Their tech help is excellent, not that you will need tech help with Deks.

Deks is the easiest medium you will apply to wood ... and re-apply.

Warren.

[ 08-05-2005, 03:24 AM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[John B]

ah well, there you go. a statement.I can't resist that ,sorry.
It isn't the easiest medium in my experience. Cetol is.
Deks is very nice if you like the dark finish.( which I do actually) Its easy to touch up when you follow the 17 coat instructions ( is it 17 they recommend.. its been a few years) but compared to varnish its a very passive sort of finish. I found it washed off my toerails . I found it needed constant attention when it was exposed all year (honduras mahogany coamings)or it required a fairly major annual job.( not as much a major as varnish) It didn't break down in the southern hemisphere UV like varnish but in no way is it as easy to look after as the cetol.
I can see that for a covered boat..or a boat stored in a garage for half the year that it will do its job in a satisfactory way but nope.. can't accept the 'easiest' label.
we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

Just to flesh that out a fraction... cetol gives a flat and dark satin kind of finish. I use it on the coamings and cockpit and varnish on the higher wear surfaces..IE all the spars. The pigment in it which gives the dark finish is the reason it lasts so long I think. UV is savage on varnish here.



those coamings have been washed and recoated once in the last 3 or 4 years. The cockpit takes a bit more abuse and needs touching up each year. No sanding at all. fresh water wash.. retouch.
deks olje simply did not cut it on the coamings despite the anal adherence to the instructions.

[ 08-05-2005, 04:10 AM: Message edited by: John B ]

[Wild Wassa]

Originally posted by John B:
"... despite the anal adherence to the instructions."

That could be your problem JB. The clinical term anal means inflexible. What do you expect if you blindly follow the manufacturer's instructions without testing heaps and improving on what they suggest? Manufacturers only cater for the lowest denominator weekender. Make the medium work for you Mate.

If you have trouble with Decks ... employ a painter.

Warren.

[ 08-05-2005, 07:01 AM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[John B]

I'm trying to recollect whether it was 5 or 7 seasons I persevered with Deks.I followed the instructions to the letter the first time and when it didn't perform in my application, I consulted and carried on with some small variations in how we used it.
I do have some clues Warren. and if I had employed a painter over the last 20 years ,
I'd be broke.
What I'm saying is simply that it may well be right for your covered boats. It may well be right the way Todd suggests it should be used. In fact I'm sure that it will do a good job in those situations.
But your statement that its the easiest to use is not correct in my experience.
Deks is NOT easier to apply and it certainly is not easier to maintain than Cetol.

[ 08-05-2005, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: John B ]

[Paul Silverman]

Here's a related question. I am getting ready to recoat my layed fir deck. I've been told by the previous owner that he used Woolsey/Zspar "protective wood coating." Has anyone had experience with this and how does it compare to Cetol?

[Thad Van Gilder]

I've used Deks Olje for years now, and and haven't found anything that looks as good except varnish.

In my opinion, Cetol is a distant alternative. The peoiple that I find that love it the most also happen to own Searays and Hunters... If that says anything.

-Thad

[Bob Cleek]

I'd expect that Thompson's Water Seal or Flood's Wood Life would give you the same result as Woolsey's wood protector, at a much lower price. If you want, you can bleach teak with oxalic acid and then put a coat of Wood Life on it. This will preserve the "fresh sanded" bright color of bare teak for much longer than simply leaving it with nothing on it. The Wood Life will simply wear away and can be rebleached and recoated without any need to sand or remove build up. It doesn't last forever, but it will prevent greying for a few months at a time.

[mariner2k]

Has anyone beside myself tried penofin rosewood seed oil finish? I,ve used it for a coiuple of years and swear by it. You can even get a satin finish if applied as directed. It last very well and is easy to apply. The finish is so nice I am slowly eliminating some varnished areas and oiling them. Plus they have an oil specifically for marine use. I am very happy with it. Also it is an evironmentally friendly supplied oil.

[mariner2k]

[ 08-10-2005, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: mariner2k ]