Choice of wood for strip planking

[JimD]

Going to get started on a strip planked 22 footer soon. The strips will be edge glued with epoxy, probably I will rout them bead and cove, and the hull will be fiberglassed. I'm in western Canada so I expect western cedar and Doug fir or other spruces will be readily available. Anyone have an opinion on suitable woods for strip planks?
jimd

[Meerkat]

Western Red Ceder is a traditional wood for strip planking. You can also buy Atlantic white Ceder already tongue and grooved under the tradename "Speed Strip". A patented design, it's made under license of Thompson (or Robbins?) of the UK. I know of a US licensee, but not a Canadian one. I was quoted $1300 for 2600 linear feet of 12x18mm.

US Speedstrip source

[JimD]

Thanks for the source, Meerkat
jimd

[Meerkat]

You're welcome. I hope it leads you to a Canadian source.

(waves to the north)

[img]smile.gif[/img]

[Bayboat]

Yep, western red cedar for strip planking. It's available in long lengths and straight-grained with little runout. Just be careful when putting screws in the hood ends--the wood is somewhat brittle. But with proper clearance holes it'll be OK. You don't have to mess with epoxy for gluing. Titebond, Elmer's, or yellow carpenter's glue is a lot less trouble, and will do the job well with easier cleanup. Whatever glue you use, it's very difficult to achieve water-tightness in strip planking. That's why you cover it with glass. It resist abrasion better, too.

[JimD]

Bayboat, thanks, man. I'll probably put two layers of fiberglass, perhaps 9 oz cloth or so. It never really occured to me that ordinary wood glues would do for the strips. Of course the outside and inside will be sanded and faired so that no Elmers would be left on either surface. Also I lean torwards encapsultion inside as well.
jim

[Meerkat]

Ordinary wood glues WILL NOT do for strip, especially below the waterline! They are NOT WATERPROOF. Epoxy, resorcinal or cascamite (sp?) are acceptable and others are not!

[ 09-28-2002, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: meerkat ]

[Tar Devil]

Titebond, Elmer's, or yellow carpenter's glue is a lot less trouble, and will do the job well with easier cleanup.

That's the first time ever I have seen an endorsement for those glues in boat building.

Ever.

Later,

Phil

[JimConlin]

It depends on the reliability of the encpasulation of the core. If the glass-epoxy skins will the keep the yellow-glued cedar core dry, there's no problem. For cedar strip canoes, i think it's standard practice.
That said, for bigger boats where the finish is opaque, there are more penetrations of the hull, the loads are heavier and treatment is rougher, the argument for a waterproof glue is easier to make.

[Ron Williamson]

If there is any doubt,you can use Titebond II or Lepage's outdoor glue.These ought to be available at any lumberyard,clean up with water and give a Type 2 bond which is rated for exterior use.
R

[Rancocas]

I'm currently building a wood strip canoe of yellow pine. I'm using Titebond yellow glue. It is not waterproof, but a lot easier to use than any stuff that I would have to mix. The whole canoe will be encased in epoxy when it is finished, so the water solubility of the glue is a moot point. (I have a couple of books that mention such glues as being acceptable for this construction method.)
However, a 16 foot canoe is a lot different than a boat of over 20 feet. I would use a good, waterproof glue if I were building a larger boat. I would especially be sure to do so if I didn't intend to also sheath the inside with epoxy.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

I'm an epoxy nut love the stuff use it like Elmer's all the time even for household stuff f. I can mix a tiny batch or a big pot. I buy it like you would buy milk - always make sure you have a gallon in reserve. That said obviously I would use epoxy if you learn good epoxy technique its as easy to use as Elmer's cleans up with an acetone soaked rag and you never ever have to question the bond or the water tightness. If I was building such a large strip built boat, why would I ever want to take a shortcut build it once correctly and never worry. If you feel better get an Elmer's glue bottle remove the glue and mix a pot of epoxy & put it in the bottle it will feel like your working with Elmer's for about 20 minutes [img]smile.gif[/img]

[cherokee]

w.r.cedar is great for canoes and weight critical situations but otherwise imo air dried d.fir is much better- it's tougher.resilient and easy to obtain and is not as toxic ie-dust-if you have real machinery to resaw with you can go to the local lumber yard and look for timbers with relatively fine endgrain and rltvly clear knot free- on a larger hull you'll be joining stock anyway for your strips=resaw into a close thkns for 3/4 saw to 7/8- sticker and cover out of the sun.ienorth side of the house,under awning,etc. i do mine in late fall/winter,important that the initial drying proceed as slow as possible-cool temps and higher humidity are ideal, basements are great(you don't want your timbers sitting around while you wait for the right mood or something-saw them up asap or they will start drying their way)i've tested my air dry stuff next to k.d. and imo it is far superior-bends and when it finally breaks it just slowly yields and the fibres don't want to give in- k.d. snaps and at a much earlier point in the bend radius.it even feels different. regarding glues convenient is great for a dry stored hull, but if your going out farther than you want to swim back i'd stick w/ the tried and true and work with them meticulously in there temp/condition ranges, your making a work of art and idealy it stays around for others to enjoy after your done here, convenient is for mcdonalds etc, not your beloved wood boat.i've stuck w/ west for 22 years just because i know the drill, but there all good i'm sure. aerodux is a great resorcinal to use but it's real noxious-resperator a must,not fun on hot days. polyureathane-3m,etc, can be used. west has a 2-part system in their 'proset' line which comes in a dbltube pkg and req's a special gun and box of mixer tips. i talked to them once about it after i'd build a 22'boat mixing by hand and filling cauking tubes, etc. not convenient.......but strong,reliable,,,,have fun with your project and build with integrity! john

[NormMessinger]

So there you go. Do it anyway you please and you'll find advocates for the method. I was really ignorant when we built our first stripper. Western redcedar (one word 'cause it ain't cedar), yellow glue cause type II had not been invented and epoxy was unknown in this part of the world, 6 oz glass inside and out, two layers on the outside bottom, set in polyester.

Turns out after, what, twenty-five years or so, the only thing we did wrong was the polyester and still the canoe is in good shape.

I sure wish I had not given away the plans of that canoe. It is a lake cruising honey!

--Norm

[JimD]

Muchos gracias again. I'm a bit of an epoxy nut, too, but have become miserably sensitized to it. I'll probably epoxy glue anyway. I'm also leaning towards Doug fir as its strong and hard to beat as an all purpose wood for most parts of a boat. Low humidity here most of the year round, will have to watch it with the moisture content.
jimd

[cherokee]

tom-if it's real dry when you resaw you can create a higher humidy environment for the initial drying by tenting your stack with a tarp and keep the ends somewhat open so air flows through, and wet the ground as necc which flashes off into your little micro climate so to speak. i live in the foothills where we see 80-100% rel. hmdty in winter to 30-50% summer and i've had to get creative. a good hygrometer helps and a mini lignomat meter or such advised. i got the one with the broad range scale-6-36%. cheers. john

[NormMessinger]

JimD, you say you are alergic to epoxy. Is that to any brand or have you tried others to see? Years ago I became sensitive to Saf-T-Poxy (no longer made) but was able to switch to a different brand and continue unaffected.

--Norm

[Bayboat]

My comments on the glue pertain only to canoes and kayaks that are glassed. For bigger, heavier boats, I use epoxy.

[JimD]

Originally posted by Ole Scarbutt:
JimD, you say you are alergic to epoxy. Is that to any brand or have you tried others to see? Years ago I became sensitive to Saf-T-Poxy (no longer made) but was able to switch to a different brand and continue unaffected.

--Norm

Norm, I think its all of them, but maybe time to change brands again and see if there's a difference
jimd

[D]

Meerkat, I'd like to do some reading on that U S Speedstrip source but it looks like that link is dead. Do you have a contact phone number or an active link?
thanks, D

[Rocky]

If we all love epoxy so much why not just go buy glass boats and paint them brown?

[George Roberts]

JimD ---

The first thing you should do is get the scantling right. I hope you did that.

If you bought plans, follow the directions if they cover the issue.

The scantlings should specify what types of wood are suitable and what type of glue.

I think that the density of the wood should be 24+ pounds/ cuft.

I think that epoxy is necessary.

[Carl Simmons]

As far as gluing goes, I prefer the polyurethane(sp?) because the expand and fill voids in the joints. Then glass the outside.

Carl.

[pjwalsh]

I have used titebond waterproof glue for smaller strip planked projects like canoes but for a larger boat that will probably see longer term immersion I would go with epoxy.

One note: Even in smaller projects I have found the titebond glue lines to be a pain to fair because the difference in sanding characteristics between the glue and cedar is large. I think epoxy filled with the purple medium density filler is a very much better combination with cedar strips.

western "redcedar" is a fabulous wood for strip planking. I would not use D. Fir strips except in areas that need more strength, like the bottom, because of the larger weight and brittleness of the material. Of course this choice depends on the specific application too.

[Kermit]

Weldwood. Powder. Mix with water. Test it for yourself. But for a boat that lives in the water, System Three works for me.

[D]

What about the speedstrip??

[helvit]

Bayboat-- <<Whatever glue you use, it's very difficult to achieve water-tightness in strip planking. That's why you cover it with glass.>>

If that's true, I've got trouble. I just applied a second coat of primer on a new Ocean Pointer, and have (had?) no plan to glass it. I'll call Dave Stimson tomorrow, but I know what he'll say... something like "Well, a lot of these boats have been built without glass, and we haven't had a problem....".

If that's what he says, and if you are serious in what you're saying, and since I don't really want to glass it, I'd better at least install a few inspection ports, because this boat has 7 ventilated bays between "semibulkheads" under the cockpit sole, and there's no visual access to them as it stands.

Are you saying my NWCedar will swell and compress, then dry out and shrink past the original dry dimension and crack the glue between strips ?

[D]

helvit, that's the same boat I am about ready to start and David doesn't advocate fiberglassing the hull. I emailed him on this a month or so ago and he says it is better off "breathing" than potentially having trapped moisture between the wood and cloth/epoxy. As far as the 7 bays between the cockpit and the hull, I was going to ask about weep holes and a transom plug. Is there any airflow through the bays like where the deck meets the ceiling or does the deck seal up the space between the ceiling and the hull? It would seem that if there was airflow through the bays that any moisture build-up would have the opportunity to evaporate. From what I've read, there should be minimal seam separation due to the nature of the wood (I'm referring to atlantic white cedar or WR cedar) having minimal expansion and contraction properties due to moisture content. It is one beautiful boat and I am itching to get started. Do you have any pictures?

[Steve Lansdowne]

Here is a NEW web page on Steve Redmond's site that will likely be of interest to you:
http://www.sredmond.com/strip_plank.htm

[D]

Good read, thanks Steve.

[helvit]

D- I've been taking pictures but shamefully haven't gone about learning the process. e-mail for copies, if you want to.

Yes, the bays are well ventilated by openings between the ceiling and deck, as you surmised. And "breathing" of the cedar between the almost impermeable painted surface and the bare ( or CPESed) bilge face makes sense to me.

It was Bayboat's negative on "watertight" that threw me. It better be watertight. It sure seems watertight but what do I know? First time builder here. Stimson seems to have sensed that in his design and instructions. I'm about ready to turn it over, and my buddies who are great and infallible experts grant full approval.

I put in weep holes from bulkhead 3 on back, not so much to see what's wet, but to be able to ascertain through the console opening that all was fine and dry. I'm sure it was unnecessary. And that plug would have to be cut in under the nice tight motorwell floor, which I think has it's own small scuppers. I think we have to and can trust Dave on the basic design.

My one great concern was that the hull is basically a single panel from sheer to sheer. My northern white cedar was kiln dried (dried the life out of it, though it picked up some moisture stickered in the shop) and I can't quite make out where the expansion goes without popping off the deck. Sez Dave, the drier the better, and ... something about cedar being very compressible. Exceptionally bright and nice guy, to say that.

[D]

helvit, check your PM. Have your been able to shovel out?

[Jamie Hascall]

Make nice tight joints and you won't have to worry about watertight. My 30' Garden "Teal" is strip planked from 1 1/4" redcedar strips glued with UF 109 (urea formaldehyde) with only paint to seal it. It's a wonderfully dry boat. I haul it every 1 1/2 years to check things out well but have never had a problem.

Good luck
Jamie

[D]

Jamie, what year was she launched? pics?