A Logan sadly

[Jeff Robinson]

For sale in NZ.

JR

[John B]

What's the name of it Jeff. Must be in the South or I would know it. Any info with it?
The sheer has been raised obviously. Looks like what became the E class, possibly a C, 1890's sometime.Earlier rather than later.
I wonder if it's the first Moana?

[John B]

Yeah, It's Moana. Never seen it myself. It's down around the Marlborough sounds somewhere.Make a good project if you had a chainsaw for that raised deck.

[John B]

Courtesy of Harold Kidd, the historian of NZ vintage/classic yachts..
"This is the first Moana built by Robert Logan in December 1890 for Willie Wilson. She was sold to Wellington in December 1893 and renamed WAIWETU and later VIKING II."

So It looks like I was on the money there. LOL.

She looks a bit of a tragedy, but being kauri, chances are her hull is good. New deck and cabin... a bit of refastening ,go sailing in a boat built when cars weren't seen.

[Jeff Robinson]

Thanks John. Great to have all this information a phone call or 2 away. Course I am trying to scare up a Herreshoff for the right money and this one came up on Boatpoint. Just 35,000 New Zealand dollars.

JR

[John B]

Not the sort you'd venture offshore in I think.

Sing out if you find a boat in Akl .

[Jeff Robinson]

Thanks John, I will. Shouldn't you be going home now?

JR

[John B]

Yup. Time to fang off into the sunset.
this is good though. Our own little chat room. ( that's what they call em isn't it?)

Hey You'll never guess what I scored today!!!
No you won't , not unless I tell you!!
Steve ( a lurker, brought me copies of sailplans for 2 similar size/ age boats as mine and his (Waione and Ngatira) 1 is a 1909 Logan DWG as built and with the amended plan drawn over it, 1 is a tracing by Ratsey and Lapthorn of the original sails made for a 1923 gaff boat ( built by the same designer as our boats). Tracing done in 1996 from the originals in their files.

HOWZAT!!
I would have killed for those drawings 4 or 5 years ago.

[Jeff Robinson]

No, I wouldn't have guessed that. I read about your converting Waione back to gaff all those years ago (3 or 4?) in Classic Boat but I can't remember the details. Did you not have any original details at that time? Are you close to the Ratsey plan?

The WoodenBoat chat room - completely free of Ishmael's porn but plenty of advice on boom extenders and bobstay implants.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Funily enough, I ordered Mirelle's current suit of sails and then was given the original drawings the following year! Her spars are original as she was not re-rigged to bermuda rig.

[MarkC]

Well it can't leave New Zealand!

Interesting for Wooden Boat to publish that story - perhaps trying to encourage the land of free-trade (US) to adopt the same sort of heritage protection laws? - could US states adopt these laws? could Canada?.

The heritage protection law brings up so many questions. So what happens if he can't sell it? Does he resign to the fact that he keeps it till he dies or does he let the boat run down? Does the state sieze the boat if it is poorly maintained? Does he beg a boat yard to take it on as a project? Does he give it away - is the boat now worthless?

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Does it work that way, or it like our art protection laws in Britain, which can be involed to delay the sale of a painting or sculpture, for six months I think, whilst a citizen (a public gallery, in the case of art) tries to match the price offered by the overseas buyer.

Canova's "Three Graces" is a well known case in point - it was sold by the Duke of Bedford to the Getty Museum for 7.6 million pounds, but Sir John Paul Getty II bought it for Britain and it stayed here, not in his father's gallery!

[plimsol]

The problem is not the Heritage law, it is the overinflated price of the boat. The boat is not worth NZ 35,000. Maybe in the mind of the owner, but in reality it is at best NZ 500 as a restoration project.
From the photo, you are going to need at a minimum: sheer planks, maybe a shelf and clamp, deckbeams, deck,cockpit, house, frames( it is easier to replace them without the deck),garboards and some planking plus refastening. This will consume NZ 35,000 with ease.
Keep in touch with the owner, the price will drop as time goes on. Develop a restoration syndicate and plan. Funding is the critical issue, be fully funded before you start. Good Luck.

[John B]

So I gather from mark c 's remarks that something has been published about the NZ policy of retaining its heritage and historical treasures.
Perhaps they aren't much by european standards... we are a young country after all, but I'm quite happy about hanging onto the 60 or 70 turn of the century yachts we have here.
And the policy , as I understand it, is the same one which would stop any other historical artifacts leaving, like Maori weapons, shrunken heads etc.. Just that it is expanded to include these important vessels. It brought IORANGI back to the country after it was seized on the wharves at Sydney under this legislation..

As for Moana. Yes , overpriced no doubt but $500. Please. It's not a wreck. If it's anything like the others that are out there ( and as I said, I haven't seen it)It's a sailing , operational, useful boat with some changes needed.Don't judge it by your experiences of old boats. It's KAURI.
The probability is that it needs some fastening and deck/ cabin work. The probability is that it will not need any hull planking or major structural work ( depending on it's life obviously). My bet is that you could buy it, go boating for a few years and fix bits as you need to.( gee now where would I get that from... Oh I know. that's right. I did it myself 20 years ago and haven't missed a season yet.).

[Donn]

..shrunken heads...

Eh?!?

[John B]

Cannibals you know, old chap. Quite a trade in the trophys and all that.. Very warlike race.
I understand The market developed exponentially with the coming of the first traders and settlers to a point where prisoners were tattooed to order. LOL. They pop up from time to time in european auctions... a few museums have em although it's often not PC to have them on display. Every now and again a govt funded mission goes off to buy em back.
Talking of market pressure on a resource,...
One of our birds became extinct shortly after the King wore it's feather in his hat. Bit of a fashion market there. Huia , it was called.

[ 08-19-2003, 05:51 PM: Message edited by: John B ]

[Donn]

Phew! I thought you meant smaller heads on boats. They seem awfully small already.

[John B]

This is the one seized in Sydney Australia as an illegal export.
She came back.

[John B]

Right Jeff.
"The WoodenBoat chat room - completely free of Ishmael's porn but plenty of advice on boom extenders and bobstay implants." LOL.

The sail plans I had were from various souces but none locally. There was an 8 metre plan in one of Uffa foxes books that I was taken with and took some look from.

I set some general guidelines for myself in areas ( No 600ft IS the LIMIT for that sail )and that it should be evocative of a pole mast/ jackyard rig common in NZ around the turn of the century but leaning towards the later style, say 1920s in that the aspect ratios were taller and the jibs had fairly steep luffs. It's all worked out well and most wouldn't notice that she's a few feet short on the boom.It's stil 28ft long.
these new plans are cool. The 1909 one is low and long, the 1923 is taller relatively and with more seperation on the jib luffs. I've scaled the areas to my boat and they are really quite close.More in the 1923 rig but that's a powerful boat.
Still buzzing about those plans. how cool is that.
I've scaled them to the same size, copied them on mylar and sit there overlaying one on the other.. OOO yes I can see how that would be good... ooo no don't like that LOL

[Jeff Robinson]

Sounds like fun John. We have not been near our little gaffer for weeks now, I hope she is still there. We went for a motor on a friend's 42 foot Ted Brewer sailboat the other week, and we don't think we want such a big boat! Sort of the maritme version of kiwi's making do and making anything with No. 8 fencing wire ... we would rather have a smaller boat more hands on. Not a little old Logan either, or a Bailey. I'll just admire the originals, and the people who keep them like that.

Iorangi is a beauty - I have never heard heard the story. Can you be bothered telling it?

[John B]

I made a post on Iorangi over in Building repair a while back, Jeff.

http://media5.hypernet.com/cgi-bin/U...=1&t=007617&p=

Some years ago... about 6 or 8( it blurs) The owner decided to ship her over to Aus . He was an ex pat Kiwi and wasn't particularly trying to do anything wrong.Just get his boat to Aus because he lived there and wanted her worked on. She was seen getting ready to be loaded onto a ship for transport from here but departed before anyone realised she had gone. A few people got involved and to cut the story short , she was seized on the wharves at Sydney on arrival. A deal got worked out where a bond was posted guaranteeing her return and she stayed over there for some time ... perhaps a year, I don't recall exactly. It was a big bond. a couple a hundred I heard.
Anyway... she came back say 5 years ago, went up for sale. She had a cabin, decks were a bit shot. a mate of mine bought her and had her refastened and redecked to original profile ( flush) and she'll be sliding in, in about 4 or 6 weeks I imagine. Bermudan ( ali) mast. She's going to give some people a bit of a fright.