Incompetent/unethical surveyor- what to do?

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  • holzbt
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2000
    • 1623

    Incompetent/unethical surveyor- what to do?

    A new cusromer brought in a 17' mahogany CC runabout yesterday to a local yard that I help out in occasionally. He has never owned a boat before and decided he wanted a classic wood boat. He found this boat on the net, and determined that he should hire a surveyor after talking to several people about it. The surveyor was recommended by the seller as a wooden boat expert, judge for all the local classic boat shows, etc. I read the survey yesterday and it stated that the boat is in excellent condition, blah blah blah for four pages. The new owner bought the boat based on this survey. I looked the boat over yesterday when I first saw it. Within five minutes and with nothing other than my eyes and one finger to tap and push with I discovered one broken plank, three planks with substantial rot along seams, seven rotten butts, and numerous places with loose/bad fasteners. I believe this surveyor is either incomepetent or unehtical (maybe a friend of the seller trying to help unload this boat). I'm tempted to write to whatever society this surveyor belongs to and complain. I have no interest in this boat other than that I feel this buyer was taken for a ride. Here is someone who wants a wooden boat and hired a professional to make sure he made an informed decision and he has had a very bad experiance. This will possibly turn him off from wooden boats forever. Does he have any recourse against this surveyor? Would I be out of line writing to the association about this incident?
  • ishmael
    Banned
    • Jun 2000
    • 23518

    #2
    Did the runabout come out of Rochester? If so, I think I posted the E-bay link a couple weeks ago.

    How involved do you want to get? I think I might recommend that the buyer complain, first to the surveyor, and see what they say? Probably nothing much, at which point I'd encourage the buyer to contact the surveyor's professional association.

    I doubt it will change much, but it might make the buyer feel a little better to alert the PA.

    It's too bad; it seems pretty clear there is something underhanded here.

    Comment

    • oyster
      Senior Member
      • May 2002
      • 2613

      #3
      Is this guy a member of the AYS? Does the survey have a stamp on it? Thats the first place for the buyer to start. Depending on what he paid for the boat, another survey should be in order. Has he contacted the original surveyor? If he is a member of the association, and is he semi local, a face to face meeting would be in order to "feel him out". If the boat has been sitting, maybe the seller was unaware of these problems.

      Has he asked the seller about this? Rule number 1: Never use a surveyor suggested by the owner of the vessel or a house.

      Comment

      • NormMessinger
        Senior Member
        • Feb 2000
        • 6308

        #4
        "Recommended by the seller...."

        Comment

        • High C
          Senior Member
          • Mar 2003
          • 8984

          #5
          Get another, properly done survey. Present copies of it to both the seller and the original surveyor. Demand the seller buy back the boat and the surveyor refund his fee, or threaten to sue them both. Should be open and shut, and it seems unlikely they would refuse your demands.

          Comment

          • MR. KNOW IT ALL
            Senior Member
            • Nov 2001
            • 1897

            #6
            This kind of crap happens all the time. I thought I was buying a boat that just needed a little TLC. That was 2 years ago before I discovered the rot in the transom and the delaminated decking and windshield. My buddy said it best....."bend over, it's a learning experience". [img]tongue.gif[/img] I don't feel too bad though because I only paid a few hundred dollars and should have known better at that price. I do now. It's meant alot more work and expence than I had planned but It's not stopped me from my dream. Being ripped off for thousands is another story. Do what you can to help make things right Roger.

            [ 07-04-2003, 09:48 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Know It All ]

            Comment

            • holzbt
              Senior Member
              • Apr 2000
              • 1623

              #7
              After looking at the boat yesterday I spoke with the manager at the yard. After talking it over we decided to call the owner and have him meet us at the yard. We explained that the boat had problems and was also unsuitable for his intended use and where he planned to use it. He showed up an hour later with the survey in his hand. After a short talk he said that he had obviously made a mistake purchasing this boat. He asked how he could most quickly sell it. This is when I asked if I could read the survey. I actually got angry as I read this report, if I had charged someone close to $400 to suvey a 17' boat I don't think I would have missed much. This survey was fantasy at it's best. We told the owner about a 22' CC sea skiff that is for sale locally and even went and looked at it with him. This boat is in excellent condition and the price is only $3000 more than he paid for the first boat that needs extensive work. He seemed to like the sea skiff but I'm afraid that he is so soured by this that he may give up on boats before he ever gets afloat.

              The boat came from NJ so I don't know the surveyor or I would definitely have words with him.

              Comment

              • martin schulz
                Museumharbour CEO
                • Jan 2001
                • 3758

                #8
                Jeez - I can really get angry when I hear that.

                The problem now is that again there is a frustrated guy probably already cursing his "stupid" dream to have a wooden boat (if he isn't, his wife/girlfriend will help him with that - cursing his dream I mean ).

                He will either buy a cheap FG-boat to just be out on the water, or he will give up his idea of boating altogether. If he is single all might not be lost.

                [ 07-04-2003, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: martin schulz ]

                Comment

                • oyster
                  Senior Member
                  • May 2002
                  • 2613

                  #9
                  If the guy is working fulltime as a marine surveyor, even in New Jersey, he should have a business license to do so. If the guy is registered with the AYS, then he is accredited to do surveys for the insurance business. If not, his surveys are not accepted in our area, for insuring a boat upon value and conditon survey. This maybe little recourse from the money end of it, but in some ways, he would loose more with a faulty or misleading survey. Check the date on the survey. If this is pretty current, rot dosen't happen overnight or in thirty days.

                  Comment

                  • Paul Scheuer
                    Senior Member
                    • Feb 2002
                    • 2410

                    #10
                    The surveyor was recommended by the seller as a wooden boat expert, judge for all the local classic boat shows, etc.
                    Chances are that this guy is at least a WBF lurker. Once he realizes what the mention of his name here might do to his "expert/ classic judge" career, the buyer might hear from him, with a sincere offer to make things right.

                    [ 07-04-2003, 11:39 AM: Message edited by: Paul Scheuer ]

                    Comment

                    • Wild Dingo
                      Humata, Hukhta, Huvarshta
                      • Jun 2001
                      • 11146

                      #11
                      Its like most things good and bad in all fields... recalls he with the surveyors with the house problems...

                      Do what you can Roger to help the fella out... and try to keep his pecker up and aiming for the water... hopefully hes an enthusiastic sorta fella and wont be put down by this bad experience particularily if between you you can get it sorted well enough to please him... and with you helpin him out he cant help but get motivated right?!

                      {note here I beleive weve seen your back yard mate! get him out in one of your many and show him what its like Im sure he will stick it out!}

                      Note if the surveyor is within our ranks... shame and many expleatives headed your way!
                      .................................................. ...................
                      Nil illegitimi carborundum = Never let the bastards wear you down

                      Comment

                      • holzbt
                        Senior Member
                        • Apr 2000
                        • 1623

                        #12
                        The survey was done within the last two weeks. I think I'm going to ask the buyer if I can make a copy of the survey and then I'll write a letter to which ever association he belongs to. The buying price was in the low five figures which makes it even worse.

                        Comment

                        • paladinsfo
                          Senior Senior Member
                          • Dec 2000
                          • 26476

                          #13
                          publish his name, rank and code speed and I think the forum can handle it from there.......
                          Wakan Tanka Kici Un
                          ..a bad day sailing is a heckuva lot better than the best day at work.....
                          Fighting Illegal immigration since 1492....
                          Live your life so that whenever you lose, you're ahead."
                          "If you live life right, death is a joke as far as fear is concerned."

                          Comment

                          • Concordia..41
                            Senior Member
                            • Mar 2002
                            • 3076

                            #14
                            IMHO First the buyer should contact the surveyor. It's his beef after all.

                            If the buyer doesn't get satisfaction, he (with your help and factual support) should contact the surveyor's association (NAMS, SAMS).

                            Third, hopefully he's not put off of boats - wood or otherwise, and can consider this a valuable lesson.

                            Fourth, there is always the litigation avenue. I don't know if it's required up there or not, but the surveyor might have errors and omissions insurance. If not, he should

                            Dave put it on another thread a few days ago, but there's a 60+' Trumpy on the rail at our yard right now and he watched a surveyor spent less than two and a half hours doing a prepurchase survey.
                            - M<br /><a href=\"http://www.sailingwithsarah.com\" target=\"_blank\">www.sailingwithsarah.com</a>

                            Comment

                            • oyster
                              Senior Member
                              • May 2002
                              • 2613

                              #15
                              Here is a site for you to skim over.
                              In general:
                              NAMSGlobal members are marine surveyors who inspect, and provide a broad variety of consulting services for the maritime industry. Our members are certified based on their knowledge and experience, with designations for: Yachts and Small Craft, Cargo, and Hull and Machinery (including Fishing Vessel


                              New Jersey:

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