5.5 meter sailboat restoration

[Jack Chism]

Another new project and a new member with a few questions. I recently obtained a beautiful 5.5 meter Olympic class sailboat (31' 5000# mahognay plank oak rib) this summer in Sturgeon Bay Wisconsin.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...8/f67d4cc6.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...0/f67d4cc2.jpg

The widow of the owner (past CEO of Palmer Johnson Yachts) grew tired of it sitting in the boat yard the last four years. It was built in Sweden and shipped to Wisconsin in the early 1960’s with 13 other 5.5’s to the Menominee, Michigan Yacht Club. The Class is still very active and going strong in Europe as two classes - Classic (wood) and Modern (fiberglass). After building a trailer that would support the narrow 7 ft beam, I hauled it to my shop in Kansas (don’t laugh, not much water but lots of wind).

Enough history. In the Midwest most racers keep their sailboats on boat hoists in slips to keep their boats dry, and bottoms clean. Our lakes do not have large marinas capable of putting the sailboats in/out each race day. Question: Will a carvel plank, 5,000lb sailboat sit on a boat hoist and still keep its shape? The answer will dictate how I seal the plank seams (epoxy/splines or caulk/splines). If the boat is kept on a hoist it would be the same as dry sailing with a trailer. I have not seen a wooden sailboat on a hoist, but it would eliminate the movement in the planks by keeping it dry. My concern is the 2500 lb full keel and just two bunks on the hoist carrying all the weight.

http://www.imagestation .com/picture/sraid144/p3f3ff891c8e2e675923322ef2880866d/f67d3d48.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...2/f67d3b52.jpg

In the recent past the boat seams were repaired with epoxy and splines, and as easily predicted, some of the seams opened up by splitting the planks while sitting out the last few years. (Picture included). My alternative would be to keep it in water full time and caulk the seams. Although Kansas can be very dry and the wood will move a great deal when the boat is pulled each winter.

My experience has been limited to replanking a wooden lightning and many fiberglass sailcraft repairs. The paint stripping is almost done, and the enjoyment of working with restoration begins. Thanks for you advice, Jack Chism
I

[ 10-27-2004, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: Jack Chism ]

[TomHaven12]

Here's the photo:



[ 10-28-2004, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: TomHaven12 ]

[Jack Chism]

Tom - Thanks for the help. I made a few adjustments. I am just slow. This is my first time on a forum. It is harder than stripping paint.

[Concordia..41]

That's a pretty boat. "Nice lines" as they say

I can't answer your question on the hoist, but welcome aboard! (Ask me something about varnish or throwing money at a boat. Those are my two strongest areas )

- M

[Bob Smalser]

Those planks are sure glued.

And that's q-sawn H.Mahog....one of the stabler hardwoods, seasonal movement wise.

Or just glued above the waterline and caulked below?



Not a Midwesterner but lived in Texhoma for a few years...just how dry is your part of Kansas in winter when the boat is pulled?

You might look up professionals with lots of modern hull repair experience like RGM and Dave Fleming and ask them to have a looksee...

...I don't see how I could replace that glued-in plank without making a goshawful mess...and a long dutchman chiseled out and scarfed at the frames wouldn't be my preference either, as that is obviously a high stress point in the hull.

If the seam wedges were epoxied in hard...like driven in deeper than a normal planking seam when the boat was unusually dry and the seams badly open...then converting back to caulked seams by routing them out with a taper-ground circular saw blade riding on a batten might still result in a "glued" hull.

[ 10-28-2004, 05:18 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[Don Z.]

Some (if not most) of the Metre boats... and I know of one 5.5 in particular... were close planked for exactly the reason you mentioned! That is to say, living out of the water they were tight... they were in the water just for the race and pulled before they could swell up.

As far as the hoist goes... I'm not sure I can picture it. Is it a dock lift? If so, the keel should rest on a bed, and then the "sides" are there to "steady", not to hold it up...

[Chris.]

Jack,
congratulations on youir purchase - you have a beautiful boat. I have recently been through a similar exercise with a 22 sq metre of similar vintage and construction.
I would expect that those areas where the seams are parting are located at those stations around the mast-step, right?
Sq metre boats and other metre class boats suffer this problem. They are fairly lightly constructed and are sailed with a lot of rig tension. result is that the downward pressure from the mast often begins to separate the floors from the frames in the mast step area. I reckon that some reinforcing of the floors and frames will stop a lot of movement. You will likely have to remove some planks (at least the garboard) to do this, so check it out before you start pulling planks off.
Good luck!

[lagspiller]

Read a nice article in the newest Classic Yacht about this problem in boats with long overhangs - specifically in Dragons. A single triangular frame brings the tension back to the mast step instead of the the more usual series of triangular sections reinforcing the entire bow section. Looked pretty well thought out.

The Knarrs have problems with glue & longitudinal splits - they were glued with a resorsinol glue in the 50's that crystalized with age. I think that the glue failed in some areas and not in others, causing cracks that look very much like the pictures. For what it is worth, in my book, Sikaflex is not a bad fix if things are not very bad.

...and just to set the record straight - a sq.meter is not a meter boat. Different design rules. And none of the sq.meters I have seen are glued, so the problems will not be the same. Mine has the problem with mast pressure, but it is because the ribs are not what they once were.

[Roger Cumming]

As the former owner of a Scandinavian-built tight-seamed Dragon class sloop, I can assure you that the only way to keep these boats together is to keep them in the water year round. The yearly shrinking/swelling cycle of dry winter storage creates havoc with the plank fastenings. This kind of construction is probably not suitable for a boat in Kansas. It was certainly inappropriate for New York City. They perform well in Scandinavia, however.

Glueing the seams together or putting in splines is an exercise in futility and will damage the planking. The forces induced in the planking when it shrinks across the grain are greater than the strength of the wood, so it splits. The resulting relative movement of the planks and frames loosens the plank fastenings. In a wet climate with less summer/winter temperature and humidity variation tight seam planking works OK. It didn't work in eastern New York and probably will not work in Kansas. Conventional carvel planking depends on its caulking to achieve continuity of the hull - for the hull to act like a shell. A tight-seamed hull will act like a shell only when the planks contact each other - when it swells up. But to expect a tight-seamed hull, especially one with long overhangs and light framing, to survive many cycles of shrinking/swelling in a fairly extreme climate isn't realistic.

[Jack Chism]

Thanks for everyones help. I JUST WISH I UNDERSTOOD YOUR ABILITY TO POST A PICTURE IN THE REPLY POSTS RATHER THAN THE URL I POSTED.

[Andreas Jordahl Rhude]

Interesting stuff! I grew up on Lake Michigan's Green Bay on the other side of the river from the M & M Yahct Club at Menominee, MI. Spent plety of time there. Altho I never sailed on one of the 5.5's there, I sure remember them. I think a few are still around, at least some were there ten years ago. I have sailed from that Yacht CLub and my brother has a 22 square meter built in Sweden in teh 1930s.

[rbgarr]

Here's a Six Meter that looks like she's in great shape!

http://yachtworld.com/core/listing/p...46&slim=quick&

[bamamick]

She's probably solid as a rock. From what I hear she has also been sold to Europe, thanks to the strong Euro/weak dollar.

My Dragon is 'glassed with vinylester resin over a biaxial cloth. She sits on her trailer all year long in our harsh climate. So far (two years) she's held up well. I wash her down with fresh water inside and out quite frequently and then vacuum out the excess water.

If you are not going to 'glass her then I would say that you would need to keep her floating. Otherwise you will be bailing so much that it won't be that much fun to go sailing. It's a beautiful 5.5. I used to have a fiberglass version of the class and it was a lot of fun to sail and we did quite well racing her. A little too heavy for my club and since I didn't have a trailer it was tough to keep her here in hurricane alley.

That's my two cents: either 'glass her or keep her in the water. Sailing a leaky boat is no fun at all, especially a performance boat.

Mickey Lake

[Jay Greer]

I am especally taken with your pretty pretty boat because Skip Elliott, sailmaker, and I raced the 5.5 "Gosling" for several seasons. We kept the boat in dry storage when not in use. The hull was splined and did not suffer from cracking. This may have been because it never was allowed to soak up and dry out much.

One thing I did with the boat was to attach the upper shroud chain plates to a bridle that ran under the mast step and was tensioned on either side with a turnbuckle. I believe that this relieved a lot of downward thrust on the mast step.
Congratulations on acquiring your fine little ship!
JG

[Wild Wassa]

I put boats on hoists for maintenance or preparing the hulls for painting. You don't want to keep a boat suspended on a hoist any longer than is absolutely necessary. If you do need the boat on a hoist, there is a need to place it on supports for your own safety, you can't just leave it dangling off a launching strap or on hoist slings. When a boat is on a hoist the hoist slings should be only used as a safety back-up once the boat is lowered onto supports and the weight and tight tension are then taken off the slings, so that the slings don't damage the hull. Hoist slings will cause pressure marks on hulls given long enough ... which isn't long at all.

If you have access to a hoist your maintenance is far easier when working on any sized boat. When larger boats with backstays are hoisted ... people forget the backstays when going up and then coming down. When some are hoisting with the mast still up, they overlook the possibly new mast angle when raised nor do they consider the side stays near hoist cross beam/s ... I've witnessed some wild hoistings.

Warren.

[Wild Wassa]

I forgot to mention this, there is another option to not having the boat's weight sitting on stands or resting in slings and that is to fill the boat with helium.





The class rules say you must carry an anchor.




I only do it on still days.

Warren.

[skuthorp]

Do you have to carry parachutes too?

[Honda_Shadow]

What the heck is a "meter?"

[Jay Greer]

39.37 inches
JG

[Boatmik]

Hi,

I have also come across a 5.5 metre that is ready to be restored.

It is in Adelaide, Australia and was the third 5.5 built in the country KA3 - called Kirribilli.

I have put some further historical information and pics up on my BLOG.

She is in amazingly good condition for her age - I've seen Dragons in worse condition restored very nicely.

http://www.storerboatplans.com/wp/?p=33

[outofthenorm]

Jack, I owned a Britton Chance designed 5.5 from '71 to '75. Ariadne was the Bronze medal winner in Tokyo in 1964 and one of the sweetest boats I ever sailed. Looked good too, with a curved reverse transom like the 12 metres of the day, and a flush deck, double-cockpit set up like you have. Anyway, she was planked in hard Mahogany, tight seamed, no caulking, copper riveted to bent oak frames. We kept her ashore in the Winter here of course - 5 months of serious cold, dry weather. We never caulked or put anything in the seams, which meant that when we launched, she immediately headed for the bottom. It was like standing in one of these fancy new showers - water shooting everywhere. We were crane launched and couldn't stay in slings, so we had a gas-powered 1.5 inch pump ready to go. It had to be kept running 12-15 hours non-stop. Then the miracle would start to happen. One by one, the leaks would slow, then stop, until there were just a few weepers. I was always amazed at how fast the change happened. In about 1 day she was safe to be on her own, in 3 she was tight - until you went sailing. The topsides ALWAYS leaked. Going to windward, you had to pump every ten minutes. That boat had extremely clean bilges! We used to haul for a day mid summer to scrub, but she was kept wet all year. A great race boat and a fine day sailor. Wish I had a picture.

- Norm

[werner]

in the season in the water , in the winter in the club's garage.My close seamed boat survived for almost 70 years on that "system"; Trouble only started with someone putting polyester and later epoxy on it .Glueing the seams ,splines or any system wich tries to fix the plank seams and prevent mouvement means you have to keep moisture degree of the wood in tight limits.

[Chan]

helium is the only way to go.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Beauty boat.

[morton caplan]

Rather than using splines and glue to repair wide open seams I have used 5200. My theory was that splines and glue would provide too rigid a structure during the wet/dry cycle and wouldn't last, and were a lot of work, while the 5200 would hold to the surfaces, and had enough elasticity to accomodate the wood expansion and shrinkage. Seems to work fine.