Original Condition--- How Much Does It Matter?

[Alan D. Hyde]

I've got a '61 27' Chris-Craft Sea Skiff in a fairly rare configuration; it's got an original factory hardtop, and the original dinette.

Every time I go under the hardtop, I have to duck, since the headroom is maybe 6'2" and I'm 6'6". And, I can't stand at the helm and steer without ducking.

I've been thinking of raising the hardtop, but I'm afraid it would alter the looks of the boat for the worse, and I also hate to tamper with one of the few surviving examples of a classic design.

Perhaps I should sell this boat to a shorter guy, and find a model of the same boat in an open configuation? I kind of like the idea of a canvas top anyway.

What do Forum members think?

Alan

[ishmael]

Hm...that is a dilema. My family had the 26 ft built in 58' with the factory canvas hardtop. Never saw another like it. Probably only a handful made each year.

On the other hand, the helm on our boat was meant to be manned sitting on that big bench seat. At 5'11 I could stand in the "well" between the seats, but rarely did. In fact, the only times I remember standing there was when there was a novice at the wheel and I wanted to be close for coaching. Though the ducking to get into the helmsman's position could get old after awhile.

Where are you on this project? Last I heard some serious replanking of one side was in the works. What motor does she have? Being three years newer than the "BARJ" had they shifted to the hull with more flair foward? One thing about our boat, it had the classic rounded sides of the old Lyman Islanders and powering into a chop was WET back aft.

Jack

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

If you have checked "Chris Craft, The essential Guide" by Jerry Conrad, and indeed it is a rare hull,
don't change it.Part of the boat's dollar value will be linked to it original condition being preserved. One of the reasons I bought my boat(1964 36' Challenger) is because of its totally original condition. I am rebuilding the starboard engine this winter to original specs, including color and decals. Sounds like a nice boat Alan, and besides, who makes boats for people 5'18" ?

[ 11-26-2002, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: Peter Malcolm ]

[Alan D. Hyde]

Jack, it's one with increased flare, so is drier.

The engine is the standard (and original) Chris-Craft 283.

I hate sitting still very long, and much prefer standing at the helm. Even standing in the well, I'm forced to duck.

More strakes to do still. Just cleaning out my father's garage (boatshop) so I could get it in was a major work of archaeology. (My garage is neither tall nor long enough for it to fit.)

And then there's the new skeg to do...

Alan

[ 11-26-2002, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: Alan D. Hyde ]

[ishmael]

Some more thoughts. Changing this boat, if it is like ours was, to a convertible, wouldn't involve any major changes. The windshield assembly is, I bet, identical in both models. Unscrewing the hardtop, and replacing it with a convertible top is all that would be required. Keep the hard top, so that someone who wants to could change it back and the problem is solved.

What am I not seeing?

[Alan D. Hyde]

Jack, there are caulked and permanently attached side curtains (i.e., sliding plexiglass windows, like on a TR3) and the hardtop is by no means an easy-off, easy-on assembly.

Not as much trouble as converting an old suicide-four-door Lincoln sedan into a factory convertible look alike, but maybe a little analogous.

I'm just in a stop-and-think-first-before-I-do-anything-I'll-regret-later mode on this...

Alan

[ishmael]

Alan,

It sounds to me like your percieved needs in a boat have changed, and you are looking for a good reason to find a new home for this boat.

Interesting that there are side curtain frames and plexi sliders, just three years on. The BARJ had canvas and plasticine side curtains attached with snaps.

I doubt it would take more than a day or two to remove your hardtop -- with a helper. But if the boat no longer suits your needs...

Jack

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Unfortunately, from a conservation side, the hull card would reflect the original set-up... Hey Alan you have an excuse to shop for a new boat!!! wooohooo!!

[Mr. Know It All]

Alan....Lyman made boats for tall people. At 6' 6" sounds like you need a Flybridge model.


Kevin in Ohio

[imported_Conrad]

Must be my contrarian nature, but I say modify it to suit your needs, and enjoy! I think the myth of the rare and original boat having some significant additional value is just that- a myth. An original Hacker, perhaps. A Chris-Craft, with the exception of some of the more esoteric runabouts, probably not. Not that they aren't great boats, but the potential market for the boat, let alone the premium for originality or scarcity, is insignificant. The value is in the enjoyment you derive from its unique fit with your personality and needs.

Customers often come to me with older cars that have meaning to them, having been in the family for ever or such, but not much general market appeal. They'll guiltily ask my opinion about making modifications that would increase their pleasure or utility at a cost in originality. And my response is- "if you left it original, and set it aside for 20 years, would it be worth much more in constant dollars than it is now, to you or to the general public?" Your answer sets the course; if no, do what you want. If the answer is yes, are you willing to forgo the future benefit to get what you want today?

Finally, who knows what the future holds. Twenty years ago a Jaguar XKE MKl was worth $12,000, ten years ago $85,000, today $20,000. That was a fun ride! What have wooden boat values been doing in constant dollars? Ouch!

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Do you have your hull number Alan? I don't see a record for a 1961 27 foot Sea skiff class with a hard top available. In 1962 there was a 27' sportsman in the sea skiff category that was available with a command bridge... but the hull number would tell all

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

If you don't have your hull number, describe the boat.. there is a 27 foot semi enclosed with a hardtop, and a dinette about half way back in the cockpit. round hatch on deck

[John B]

I'd have a hard time chopping into it ,Alan. In a lot of respects I've been lucky with my boat because the cabin and cockpit were heavily modified and the interior was rubbish. All original? Stuck.

[John R Smith]

Hmmm -

so other people are more than 5 foot three? Now I see why they're always going on about headroom . . .

John

[ken mcclure]

Yeah, John, but we don't wear a 17" hat.

[ken mcclure]

Whoops. Clicked too fast.

Alan, if you want to maintain the maximum resale value in the boat I'd advise keeping her original. After all, it's not a version that was built in high quantity. And with any antique or classic, rarity is important.

I'd say keep ducking for awhile until you can find another that suits your stature.

[Alan D. Hyde]

I do have the hull card (from Jerry Conrad, Curator of the Chris-Craft Collection at the Mariners' Museum), and it was factory original, per the first owner's special request.

Alan

[brad9798]

Alan- have you grown since you bought the boat?

Anyway, my decision would be based on how long I plan on keeping her ... if short-term, I wouldn't change it. Long-term? Change it.

It's not like you will destroy the value of the boat for 99% of potential buyers down the road.

I too have an old CC- 1964 Cavalier ... I have made some tasteful modifications that 'fit' the style of my boat. Heck, it's my boat, and I want it the way I want it!

It sounds like you are giving the appropriate thought and consideration to the 'challenge' at hand ... trust your instincts and heart when it comes to boats.

Brad

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Alan .. sounds like maybe only a couple of boats then with your layout? You'll make the right decision either way buddy...

[Donn]

Alan...I put a hatch in my wheelhouse top so I could stand up straight at the helm. Works great, and provides ventilation.

[Alan D. Hyde]

No, Brad, I haven't grown.

I was just gung-ho when I bought the boat and didn't think much about it at that time.

By the time I realized how much the overhead was bothering me, I had also learned what a unique model of Sea Skiff it was.

Alan

[John B]

Is there a site?.... photos anywhere?

[Redonebyme]

Ha ha , At 5'5" I can stand up in the cabin of most daysailors and curl up and get comfortable in a coach airline seat. Even if I can't reach the cookies on top of the fridge.

[Donn]

Ha Ha. At 6'2", most people can't see my bald spot.

[imported_Conrad]

Is this the style you want?

http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/7/2/36791372.htm

[steve sparhawk]

Alan, I have a 1960 Richardson cruiser that is just a tad short in the hardtop. Since it was installed by fairly normal humans, I think I can remove it and add a spacer to gain headroom. If, later, someone objects to the increase, they, (or,I) can change back.

Why, oh why, would we want to suffer the cramping of an ,otherwise, great boat just because someone else--who is not nearly as vested--declares a sin? (of course, you DID ask.)

Sure, we chop tops in our street rods but, we don't go so far as to make them impossible to drive without a slug of ibuprophen.

I figure that the addition in height will increase the profile only about three percent--probably not enough to notice. I'd think that, what with our population getting taller, the potential future owner would find the increase a blessing and worth the purchase price.

[Alan D. Hyde]

Conrad, that doesn't look much like mine.

Either it's been updated, or there were a lot of changes in the design from 1961 to 1964...

Alan

[ishmael]

Alan,

Am I mistaken? You don't have a cabin on your boat, do you?

I assumed it was very similar to the BARJ, essentially an open skiff, with a v-berth under the foredeck, and in your case a hard top with a dinette maybe.

I've been intuiting, off and on, on your situation. It seems to me you have more of a project than you really want, given the conflicts, and need to pass the boat on to someone who is really excited about it. Then buy yourself something a bit bigger and go cruising.

Just a take that could be all wrong.

Jack

[Alan D. Hyde]

Well, Jack, I'd say you're pretty much on target. This isn't my "ultimate" boat, so I'm reluctant to spend a lot of time and money getting it "just right" for me in a way that may reduce it's resale value.

Eventually, I think we'll need something a tad bigger to do what we'd like to do.

But, still trailerable...

Alan

[ishmael]

By trailerable you mean back and forth, to the water and back, a couple hundred miles, each time you use the boat? Clearly not descriptive of your Sea Skiff. And, you want it to cruise and sleep four or six in reasonable comfort, from Chicago to the Maritimes and back?

(Laugh), you have the imaginings of dreamers since people first started designing and dreaming. It weighs little, it carries a lot, it has much comfort, and it costs almost nothing.

If you are serious about the cruise you mentioned, why don't you buy a boat and berth it in Chicago's environs. It could be a second home while you plan your trip.

I dunno, it just seems like all of us, you want too much.

Jack

[ 12-02-2002, 04:40 PM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

[Alan D. Hyde]

Probably I do.

Alan

[ 12-02-2002, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: Alan D. Hyde ]