Where is God?

[Dick Millet]

When I was 4 years old I jumped out of a (wooden) boat into the middle of Lake Pleasant. My head barely went under water when my foot touched a rock and I pushed myself back to the surface. I remember the whole event as clear as if it were yesterday. The only troubling thing about the whole story is that we were in 40 ft of water out there and there are no rocks anywhere near the surface in that area.

I'm not a religous man at all but I know there have been a number of events in my life that the only explaination comes down to divine intervention. I don't belive in the Christian god, the Jewish god or any other God. I do however believe in something bigger than me. It's more difficult for me to believe in some sort of cosmic accident that creates such an organization of cells as to create a thinking living being than to believe that the universe is some sort of intelligent design at work.

[JimD]

He took the last train to the coast the day the music died.

[George Roberts]

Mike Field ---

You wrote:

"We implore you, give us a sign."

Now, I tried to post a picture of my granddaughter. She is about the best sign I can think of ...

But the connection was refused. Now did God intervene and stop me from posting or was there no God and ...

I will try to hand write the image in

[Wild Dingo]

Gaws shes a sweetheart George!!

Yep in the eyes and innocense of children is god however you define god... the pure joy of the wonderment of life and all it holds

Thanks for dragging this up from the antiquities

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

He's right here.
You want me to ask him something for you?
I talk to him all the time.
I ask him questions and stuff.
Like...why the hell did that happen?
What should I do now?
Please Lord, can I have one of those?
I don't always understand the answers though.

[ 03-27-2004, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Know It All ]

[martin schulz]

...don't know about god, but religion is opium for the masses.

[huisjen]

David, the eventual king of Israel some 3000 years ago, spent a period living in the hills. He was a bandit/mercenary/extortionist at that time. But he had with him an ehud, which is a box of sacred talismans. Ask a very specific yes/no question, roll the bones, and God tells you an answer.

As to whether Yawheh is into wooden boats, well, he's sort of a sky god, like Thor or Zeus, into throwing lightning bolts and such. He's not into boating per se, although his boy messed about in them some. However, Yawheh had his Ashera, his companion. She was often pictured as a woman/pillar/tree. The old testament sometimes speaks of sacred groves of trees, especially oaks. So I'd guess that yes, he prefers wooden boats.

Dan

[Wind of Heaven]

The late Dr. S.M. Lockridge nails it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzqTFNfeDnE

[AndyG]

It's more difficult for me to believe in some sort of cosmic accident that creates such an organization of cells as to create a thinking living being than to believe that the universe is some sort of intelligent design at work.

But that's just the Anthropic Principle at work. No intelligent designer required. If the universe wasn't quite the way it is, you'd not be around to wonder at its lifelessness.

As to where god is, I am firmly of the belief that some humans' brains are wired to require solace in the supernatural and some even "hear" voices from a omnipresent creator. (Of course it's omnipresent - it's in those people's heads). I don't.

What is fascinating is whether there's some evolutionary advantage in having a religious belief: I am not convinced there is any, but might nod towards the suggestion that a religious belief might help those who are utterly fearful of personal death, or need support for their grief having lost close relatives. A sort of inbuilt "sanity gene" for the "likely to lose it"...

Fire away!

Andy

[Peerie Maa]

But that's just the Anthropic Principle at work. No intelligent designer required. If the universe wasn't quite the way it is, you'd not be around to wonder at its lifelessness.

As to where god is, I am firmly of the belief that some humans' brains are wired to require solace in the supernatural and some even "hear" voices from a omnipresent creator. (Of course it's omnipresent - it's in those people's heads). I don't.

What is fascinating is whether there's some evolutionary advantage in having a religious belief: I am not convinced there is any, but might nod towards the suggestion that a religious belief might help those who are utterly fearful of personal death, or need support for their grief having lost close relatives. A sort of inbuilt "sanity gene" for the "likely to lose it"...

Fire away!

Andy

Research has indicated (I pick my words carefully) that a significant proportion of humanity is hard wired to have Faith. If that is proven to be so then there must have been some evolutionary benefit, possibly by way of reinforcing altruism and societal bonds in the clan.

[WX]

And I thought the OP was originally talking about Scott!

[skuthorp]

I think the evolutionary benefit of having a common belief within your family/tribe is proven. But there's always someone wanting to be the boss and order everyone else about. Claiming franchise and enforcing it is as good a way as any and does seem consistent with human behaviour. The old way of dealing with dissidents, like me, was to kill them. All in the name of god of course with the proper ritual to keep the unwashed in thrall.

[Kevin T]

Wow a thread from 2004!

This whole thread's reappearance seems analogous to when bible bangers show up on your front porch.

Here are the reasons, the thread was started back in 2001 and had nominal "legs" through 2004 when the last posting was made by Dan in 2004. Suddenly on August 19, 2012, greater than 8 years later a member who joined in 2008 with four posts, all 4 of which were posted on 8/19/12 bumps this post up to the top.

How does one even find a thread more than 8 years old, I suppose if you were looking to convert you simply search any and all threads with the word God in them. Wind, have you met SamF?

Sorry for the rant, I was 15 minutes yesterday into a really nice nap when the front doorbell rang to be asked if I found JC.

[WX]

Just tell them your imaginary friend is much better than their imaginary friend.

[Kevin T]

Just tell them your imaginary friend is much better than their imaginary friend.

Still half asleep when I went to the door it was only afterwards that I kicked myself when I realized that I missed my opportunity to retort: "Why is he lost?"

I know it's an old joke, but it's still new the first time you get to say it, and knowing some of my neighbors, I'm betting that the door ringers still heard my missed comeback.

[Nanoose]

Wow a thread from 2004!


How does one even find a thread more than 8 years old,

Google brings up WB threads. That's how.

[Kevin T]

Google brings up WB threads. That's how.

Yeah, but why?

[Nanoose]

Why what?
Why did Wind post it, or why did google find it?

[Waddie]

God is where you find him/her. Some people never do. I am one of the latter, but I'm not exactly sure I'm all knowing either, so therefore color me agnostic.

Humans believe many things which can't be proven.

regards,
Waddie

[JimD]

I cannot conceive of nothing. Also, I cannot conceive of something from nothing. Taking Buddha's advice, I avoid speculation. So I don't pay much attention to stories about why and how there is something.

[Kevin T]

Why what?
Why did Wind post it, or why did google find it?

First off, Wind didn't post the thread, he resurrected an 8 plus year gone thread, that doesn't strike you as pretty random?

Second, Google found it because that's what Google does, they're a search engine company among other things.

Why didn't he just start a new thread? My guess is he couldn't come up with a plausible reason to give a "shout out" to some dude named Lockridge, so he went this route, but I suspect you knew that already, and I'm sure you knew I had my tongue firmly planted in my cheek when I asked the question, or at least I suspect you did when you asked at #68.

[skuthorp]

Holy thread resurrection! Look at some of the names on this thread.

Yup, worth it just to have Palladin's name .....um..........resurrected?

[John Smith]

God is real. I am able to live everyday knowing that he is one that keeps us from the almighty group that wishes to take away freedom and the morals of family values that made the world grow into indiviual knowledge of the human beings going about everyday living. Unfortunately their are a few that believe it is right to worship false gods such as an elected official.

You lost me. From where I sit it is the reliigiously inclined to tell us we get our rights from God, not our government, that use the govenment to deny us those rights.

[John Smith]

Maybe there's a third testament in the works.

Today's religion seems to be based on the concept that the "higher power" will forgive you your sins, so it's okay to sin. It doesn't matter than your sin - our exercise of your free will - destroys someone elses life.

[George Jung]

Bizarre, having this thread resurrected, especially by this 'new member'. But I very much enjoyed it, especially seeing the members no longer with us or dropped from sight, for whatever reason. Reading the thoughts of those members reminded me of the discussions we use to have, relative to current offerings. I don't recall the preponderence of politics, at least not to the nasty degree we've seen here at times. Some pretty deep thinkers in that group. And it could be me -but the tenor of Pat Cox' writings seems markedly different from what we see now - much 'deeper'/philosophical, less-stressed, kinder, gentler. I could be wrong - just my perception. And that's a loss, one that many of us are a part of, and share. Kinder, gentler, more humorous and introspective, a bit more thought given before posting - wouldn't that be a nice change?

[emma55]

Is God not us ?

[George Jung]

Maybe there's a third testament in the works.

Today's religion seems to be based on the concept that the "higher power" will forgive you your sins, so it's okay to sin. It doesn't matter than your sin - our exercise of your free will - destroys someone elses life.

Generally a component of honest regret, sometimes in conjunction with restitution, is thought required. Difficult to fake that - God knows. So the 11th hour recovery isn't necessarily fool proof.

[WX]

Still half asleep when I went to the door it was only afterwards that I kicked myself when I realized that I missed my opportunity to retort: "Why is he lost?"

I know it's an old joke, but it's still new the first time you get to say it, and knowing some of my neighbors, I'm betting that the door ringers still heard my missed comeback.

Reminds me of the old Goon Show joke.
Min: Henry put the cat out.
Henry: Why, is it on fire?

[skuthorp]

Generally a component of honest regret, sometimes in conjunction with restitution, is thought required. Difficult to fake that - God knows. So the 11th hour recovery isn't necessarily fool proof.

Maybe the Vatican could resume the sale of indulgences? It made 'em rich at one time. I mean being able to buy absolution ahead of the deed, it's heavenly insurance doncha know.

[Wind of Heaven]

It occurs to me that we don't know whether we are still blessed with God's presence amongst us. Has anyone received any heavenly intimations (or, for that matter, visitations) recently?

I used to think of God as being a Wooden Boatie in secret. He seemed to have our welfare and interests at heart, and to make His presence known to we mortals here on the WoodenBoat Forum -- well, not frequently perhaps, but sufficiently often to reassure us that He was still on Our Side.

But is He? Is the August Presence still lurking here, unheard and unseen? Are our secret wishes and desires still known, and our feet still guided firmly on The Way? Will we still be accepted eventually into that great Wooden Boat Marina in the sky?

Or are we doomed to a Plastic Purgatory? Have we, alas, been abandoned? Has our God Himself (or Herself, or Itself, and Heaven forfend,) actually apostasised?' Does God now really favour the Fibreglass Freaks, the Plastic Ponces who contribute to other bulletin boards?? Is God now smiling down on the (gasp, shudder) CWBB, for instance? Why have we not had any indications of his continuing presence? Is He in fact presently absent? Or only merely absently present?

God, are you still there? Are you still listening to us? We implore you, give us a sign.

Mr. Field, He is indeed with you and with all who seek Him in sincerity. And yes, if you read the Gospel accounts, He is definitely a wooden boatie.

[Waddie]

Maybe the Vatican could resume the sale of indulgences? It made 'em rich at one time. I mean being able to buy absolution ahead of the deed, it's heavenly insurance doncha know.

Don't confuse the existence of God with organized religion.

regards,
Waddie

[Kevin T]

Deb, I think we have an answer to my earlier question in post #81 above.

My next question would be, how is this any different if someone came on here to sell soap, or anchors or any other type of boating gear. Last I looked it was forbidden to sell stuff on the forum. #81 definitely sounds like a pitch to me.

[Wind of Heaven]

Deb, I think we have an answer to my earlier question in post #81 above.

My next question would be, how is this any different if someone came on here to sell soap, or anchors or any other type of boating gear. Last I looked it was forbidden to sell stuff on the forum. #81 definitely sounds like a pitch to me.

Just looking to encourage a brother, Mr. T. Wasn't addressed to you.

[fishrswim]

God Is Not Great. A great read by Christopher Hitchens.

But IF there is, or ever was, a god, which one should we choose to believe in? Or does it matter?

[Kaa]

Where is God? Oh, that's easy, I recently saw her on I-95....




Kaa

[Kevin T]

Just looking to encourage a brother, Mr. T. Wasn't addressed to you.

My bad, I hadn't realized this was a private message board and you resurrected it to encourage Dan from 8 years ago.

I was only playing by the rules that state "don't sell stuff," again, my mistake, carry on.

[Mike Field]

Well, this is a blast from the past, isn't it? Looking back, it seems I thought I was an agnostic when I started this thread.

Sorry, WofH, I'm afraid there really is no such place as Heaven, after all. Therefore you don't really exist, do you? What we have here on Earth is actually all there is. So I guess we'd all better make the most of it, right? No more unwarranted invasions of other countries, no more stupid "right to bear arms with which to slaughter other people who we don't like" crap. And no more insularity, no more holier-than-thou national (or otherwise) attitudes, no more rendition of foreign nationals, no more cultural-cringe-brown-nosing, etc, etc, ad nauseum, as so many people, it seems, like to have.

I guess the lack of a god is proven, if proof were necessary, by the fact that there has been no such evidence of him/her/it since the first post asked for some. It seems to me that once in a decade isn't too much for 'the reasonable man' to look for. Apparently too much for any god of myth to provide though.

I'm glad to see this thread again. If I'd thought of it at all I would have thought it had been lost in the Great Tea-Trolley Disaster of a decade ago; but in fact I'd forgotten about it altogether. It's nice to know it still survives.

But it would perhaps have been even nicer if some of the requested evidence had been manifested in the meanwhile....

Mike Field, Official Atheist

[bob winter]

Debates about religion are a total waste of time. Religion is not a matter that lends itself to logic. The one thing I am convinced about that God, as described in the bible, is a figment of the imagination that some people seem to need, for whatever reason.

[Kevin T]

I've never really needed proof of God, I'm kind of surprised there are so many here that seem to loath those who do believe. If you have ever really been at sea, far from the lights of shore, and laid on the deck gazing into a cloudless night sky, stars so close you can almost reach up and touch them, seen the green flash at sunset, or phosphoresce in your wake on a moonless night, it's hard to think it's all just an accident.

Bob, just so we're clear, I hold no loathing for what anyone chooses to believe, just as I am sure you would hold no loathing for me if I told you that Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny told me to write those words.

Science and logic may explain a lot of the seemingly unexplainable though, and again if one chooses the God route, which God are we talking about? You see when people throw up the God answer to the currently unanswerable, it can make a reasoned discussion travel slightly off the rails, especially if there is some dispute as to which God we are speaking of, that's all.

I think WofH just dropped in to sell this Lockridge cat, my guess is he may have some sort of economic interest in promoting Lockridge.

[Kevin T]

I don't think I was accusing you of selling anything Bob, my comments were directed at WofH.

However, I might suspect that you saw my claim that Santa and the Easter Bunny instructed me to write what I did as some sort of intentional mocking on my part towards someone who believes in God, which gets to the crux of the matter.

What if I really, truly believed that the Easter Bunny and Santa were instructing my actions, that would be crazy right, because everybody knows the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus don't exist except in the fevered minds of little boys and girls, there's no proof of their existence, right?

I think that most people that profess religious belief ultimately are moral relavists, or situationally religious if you will. Believe what you want, but when one's religion becomes the basis for the governance of the many. . . problems ensue. YMMV

[TomF]

Mike, you (and others) wouldn't believe me if I told you. Things on the not-material-world are considerably weirder than I had once believed. But yeah, God's out there, erhmm, in here. Wherever.

[Kaa]

Mike, you (and others) wouldn't believe me if I told you. Things on the not-material-world are considerably weirder than I had once believed. But yeah, God's out there, erhmm, in here. Wherever.

Try us? :-) I like weird things :-)

Kaa

[TomF]

Try us? :-) I like weird things :-)

Kaa

Nope; a man's got to know his limits. It helps to know his audience's too.

[Bobby of Tulsa]

Try us? :-) I like weird things :-)

Kaa

Watch him bring ya out of the valley of death
then get back ta me.

[Chris Woodward]

Is God not us ?

Thank you!
And we are God.
Be
and
Let it be
Be good
Do good
Try to understand those who
can't
won't
choose not to
understand you.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

I don't have any problem with those who believe in a God. What I have a problem with is using what I consider fantasy to excuse, or commit to,
certain kinds of behaviour that affects other people. The idea of doing 'God's will' has been an excuse for some of the most horrendous actions in the history of mankind.

Believe what you wish. Leave the rest of us out of it please.

[Ted Hoppe]

If GOD wasn't with us he (or she) would have planted fiberglas trees!!!!!

I am waiting for Chuck to come back and tell us this. then again he was good at keeping the most top secrets to himself.