Discouraging theft?

[mdevour]

Sdowney's thread on the running gear theft gets me thinking of the upcoming season.

My 24' sailboat has always lived in a decently guarded municipal park. This is my first year as full owner and it will now be in a commercial marina. It's a nice operation, but I know there are hundreds of people with access to the yard, totally apart from anybody coming in by boat.

The 10 horse Merc outboard clamps to a bracket bolted through the transom. The former owner (a friend) used a heavy, hardened chain and a decent padlock to tie the motor to the bracket, but I'm wondering if I'm being too optimistic to think that would be enough.

The motor's heavy as hell to lift it on and off every time we go out.

I could buy a 3 hp that I could keep in the lazarette and reserve the 10 for longer trips when we'd really need it, but I think my wife would be offended by the cost.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Mike D.

[Stu Fyfe]

I tink most boat equipment thefts are the result of impulse, not a well planned action. A padlock/chain should be enough to discourage an impulsive decision to try and take it. You're even better off if the engine is older and beat-up or if you're surrounded by more attractive choices. FWIW.

[ishmael]

Bunging up the threads on the mounting bolts would slow 'em down, too.

[Bruce Hooke]

How easy would it be for someone to remove the entire outboard motor bracket (with the motor)? On some models of bracket this is simply a matter of knocking out three cotter pins...

[John Turpin]

My old marina had theft problems. While there were plenty of security gates and coded locks, theives could still access boat from the water. My slip neighbor mounted a new Honda 5hp and had it stolen the same night. He had purchased an outboard lock, but hadn't put it on yet. Lesson learned.

I think late night fishermen and opportunists would just make a pass through the sailboat harbor each night on their way home. I'm betting they have every boat memorized and anything new and shiney gets their hearts beating.

[CAPNBIL]

Originally posted by John Turpin:
My old marina had theft problems. While there were plenty of security gates and coded locks, theives could still access boat from the water. My slip neighbor mounted a new Honda 5hp and had it stolen the same night. He had purchased an outboard lock, but hadn't put it on yet. Lesson learned.

I think late night fishermen and opportunists would just make a pass through the sailboat harbor each night on their way home. I'm betting they have every boat memorized and anything new and shiney gets their hearts beating.

[ssor]

There was the theft of a complete stern drive and engine from an I/O boat here, accomplished with the help of a chainsaw.

[CAPNBIL]

Sad to relate, our son had a fine Star boat which had been left at a well known Yacht club in storage for a period. After the boat was retrieved it was found that hardware which was only usable on a Star boat had been removed from the mast, taken from inside the fabric mast sleeve. I guess in some quarters the gentlemanly sport of yachting has declined to something less.
CAPNBIL

[Thorne]

You want a lock with a protected shank -- the commercial outboard locks are OK, particularly with the metal slide-cover for the lock and transom clamp handles.

Anything thieves can get a cutter on...they can cut. This includes lock shanks, chain, and cable.

If you don't dismount the motor often, consider removing or protecting the transom clamp handles, which requires the thieves to also have a wrench or large visegrips along with their cable/lock cutter.

[JimConlin]

For 25 years we kept a 35' sailboat on mooring in Maine and Massachusetts and had only one theft, a new 33# Bruce anchor which disappeared one night.
I attributed our good fortune to not having shiny new stuff that would be widely useful and to having unique things like dinghies that would be easily spotted and identified.

I would worry about a shiny new 4-stroke outboard. Might one be disguised by ugly paint?

[Ken Hutchins]

Ugly paint on anything new and shiney, along with a couple of prominent signs that read "PROTECTED WITH RUGER, SMITH AND WESSON"

[ssor]

I saw a sign on a pickup truck said "go ahead the keys are on the seat next to the rottweiler"

[maa. melee]

It's unfortunate really, that we are at the point of painting a brand new engine to look uglier to prevent theft. What about a hefty chain around the shaft housing with its own lock to keep it tight and passed around the motor head back into the boat, locked to an eye somewhere? Or get a custom cover for it so it's not so shiny..or get a salty guard dog?

[Gary E]

I'm surprized at youse guys...afterall aint all boaters rich?..dont they all have INsurnce?

[Alixander Beck]

Originally posted by Gary E:
I'm surprized at youse guys...afterall aint all boaters rich?..dont they all have INsurnce?

Now you tell me, what's the use in paying $800 deductable on $500 worth of gear?

[Gary E]

Originally posted by Alixander Beck:

Now you tell me, what's the use in paying $800 deductable on $500 worth of gear?[/QUOTE]

You askin me?? h*ll I dont pay no deductable or premiums on a boat..

Never had insurance of any kind on a boat or collision ona car and I used to buy new cars every 2 to 3 yrs.

I spose that theft is somethin that has happened for a long time and is not gona go away ever, so how to deal with it depends on what and where your whatever is kept...If it's that valueable and in a louzy neighborhood, might consider a guard or moving...

Legalize DRUGS...TAX the HELL out of them... maybe this will stop some of the stealing...

[ 02-09-2006, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: Gary E ]

[kulas44]

Roll up another one Gary, if dopies could buy the dope by making an honest living they wouldn't need to steel. A crackhead can't keep a job, therefor he can't work to buy crack, much less pay taxes on it. We had a cracker here that was steeling anhydrous amonia, (farmers use it for fertilizer, also used in the the making of chrystal meth), It has physical properties similar to liquid propane in that once the container is cold enough it can be transported in an ice chest. This nut had about 25 gallons in the back seat of his car in ice chests when he rear ended a car at a stop light. It all fell in the floor and vaporized. Unfortunately (for him at least) it also has the characteristics of amonia and being anhydrous, has an afinity for water. he soaked up most of it. by by cracker !! good riddence. On a boaty note, how about using a proximity alarm like some stores have, on objects that are likely to be stolen, it might alert someone, at least they could give the cops a description.

[Puka]

Legalize DRUGS...TAX the HELL out of them... maybe this will stop some of the stealing...

Nup! That will make drugs just as expensive and users will still have to steal to support their habit.
Receiving stolen goods should have the same penalty as stealing them. PERIOD! No excuses. No receipt or name and address of vendor for "HOT" item and you are gone. Lotta paper work but it would send a message. Anyway, receivers are just gutless theives.
Meth. Ampht. abuse IS an epidemic.Sooner Govts realize and deal with it the better.

Well signed posted/designed mantraps should be legal.

How expensive are miniature GPS beacons for the more pricy portable items items? Outboards etc.

[ 02-09-2006, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: Puka ]

[Bruce Hooke]

Ummm....how about if we keep in mind that this is not the bilge and try to avoid sinking this thread with political discussions? The tangent about drugs strikes me as a bit, shall we say, off topic...

[Alan D. Hyde]

There was a guy a few years ago whose cruising sloop was docked all summer near a popular restaurant and bar on a reservoir here.

He had a "beware of dog" sign on the dock side of his lifelines, and a proximity dectector of some kind that he had hooked to a looped tape recorder below.

You heard a deep, threatening growl as you got near his boat, followed by some angry barks...

Alan

[ 02-09-2006, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: Alan D. Hyde ]

[Gary E]

Well then TAX THE hell outa boats and all related equipment say...a 20% add on... then used dat to pay fur da guards...

[Puka]

The best you can do is make stuff HARDER and/or unpleasant to remove.

[mdevour]

Thanks for the many replies folks!

Stu: The motor is an '87 vintage Merc. Not new, but not particularly beat up either.

Ishmael & Bruce: The bracket's mounted to the transom with carriage bolts. Damaging the threads inside the lazarette is a thought. I'll have to check to see how easy it is to disassemble, too.

Thorne: You make a point. The bracket is only aluminum. Not hard to cut.

Kulas: Some sort of alarm is a nice thought, until I think how hard it is to prevent false alarms... and how unlikely it is for anybody to be around to hear it.

Hmmm... How 'bout a sting operation with a nice shiny new motor, infrared cameras, and folks standing by with floodlights and shotguns.

<sigh> I can dream anyway.

Puka: LoJack on an outboard motor? Not a bad idea, really, if you could make it practical.

I realize that anything you do is only a deterrent and not foolproof. Whatever I did would likely fall prey to the chainsaw route, if they wanted it badly enough.

I'll have to look at the commercial options, and stare at the setup to see what can be done.

To form and/or weld up a sort of clamshell arrangement out of medium gauge sheet metal to protect the bracket, clamp screws, and partly encircle the motor might be an idea. Painted up in muted colors. Big-ass lock.

Shame to have to worry about it at all.

Mike D.

[Bob Adams]

The man from whom I learned boats, H.K.Legare always told me,"a dedicated theif will get what he wants, but they are few in number, the best lock is a lock of inconvieniance."

[ 02-09-2006, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: Bob Adams ]

[Bruce Hooke]

Originally posted by M. G. Devour:
Ishmael & Bruce: The bracket's mounted to the transom with carriage bolts. Damaging the threads inside the lazarette is a thought.

Is the lazarette locked or lockable? If so, I wouldn't bother with damaging the threads. Nobody is going to be able to turn the carriage bolts from the outside anyway. I don't really like the idea of damaging threads because then when you want to remove the bolts for some reason it is going to be much harder.

If it looks like the bracket itself is going to be vulnerable then one solution might be to put a nice sized eye bolt through the transom near the bracket and run the chain and lock to that. This would bypass the motor bracket completely.

As others have said, I wouldn't go overboard. A heavy, hardened chain and a good lock should deter any but the most determined thief as long as there are not easy ways to short curcuit the system (like cotter pins that can be pulled to release the bracket).

Take a walk around the marina. If there are newer motors than yours in evidence take a discrete look at how much theft protection they have on them. If more desirable motors than yours have less theft protection on them than yours then don't need to worry much unless your boat is in a part of the marina that makes it especially vulnerable. If there are not any newer motors than yours around, or if they all have really heavy duty theft protection on them THEN you should get worried!

[pipefitter]

The Krypton cables are supposedly better than a chain and it is plastic coated and wont damage paint on the motor.After my tools all got stolen,I daisy chained my outboard,lawn mower and compressor together.I have the cable situated in such a way that there is no place to get cutters to it with any leverage.Any place that is external is tight to the equipment so they cant get cutters on it there.If you double or triple it around and up tight to it,it can even be harder to get cutters or hacksaws to it,etc.
If you use cables or chains,use two with 2 locks.The more time they have to spend,the better.

[ 02-09-2006, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: pipefitter ]

[JohnPlatou]

My neighbors were ahving a few problems with theives from out waterfront homes. I started sleeping on the top deck of my HM 38 rife along side, about 2 am a fishing boat (lights off) aproached my dock. I stood up and said hello! The "fishermen" asked what I was doing up so late, I replied hunting. They asked what I was hunting, I replied BOAT THEIVES. They replied they were fishing, I replied they should be careful "fishing" so close to our docks, I said there are alot of trigger happy "hunters" and they could get shot. They made two casts and left. I shot them with my camera as they left, flash in face. Problems seemed to stop soon after.

[Nordicthug]

In the long ago, before the advent of artificial light, I apprenticed in a yacht yard on Lake Union in Seattle. As we had just completed a very large motor yacht the yard was "down sizing" the crew, myself included. Several of us were helping each other carry our tool chests up the ramp to the street when the bottom fell out of one. Most uf us had experienced unexplained losses and mislayings of various tools over the preceding few months so we were somewhat surprised to see most of our "lost" tools strewn across the ground. We got an old crate, and began picking up the tools. Any we recognized were set aside until all were picked up, then we hand trucked it out to the end of the drydock where we took turns "float testing" the ones in the crate. Someone had a chat with the business agent of our local union later on that day to let him know none of us would work anywhere the thief was working. It's been over forty years now, and I've never seen the guy again. Theft prevention can work.

[ken_nyus]

Originally posted by joejapan:
.
I "heard" about this cop...

Anyway, he "reportedly" dropped two large "seal bombs" next to a bunch of bubbles that were coming out from under a yacht in a boat house.

Would you believe the burglaries stopped ?

What's a seal bomb joe?

[Dave Hadfield]

Sure, put a good lock on it, but personally, I'd paint it. Pick a colour that matches the trim on your boat.

For some reason this idea seems to be almost inconceivable in our culture, but it's one that generally works. A thief will steal a new, shiny motor before he'll steal yours.

If the re-sale value is diminished, so what? It's a 1987, right?

This exact scenario happened at our local yacht club. Thieves came in one night in a rowboat and lifted a bunch of transom-mounted motors. None of the locks and chains were effective. But my motor had defective paint on the cowl -- chipping and peeling. Instead of re-painting I had a canvas cover for it. When I got to the boat next day, my cover was half-off. (The thief took a look, saw something he couldn't fence, and left it to go steal another one.)

Dare to be different.

[Tim Diebert]

Makes me greatful that my boat sits on a trailer next to my house..... [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Wild Dingo]

Tim with one of these "skeleton keys" other wise known as "pursuaders" bein next to your home is irrelevent



Sadly its a fact of life that most of this type of crime is more opportunistic rather than planned... the idea of painting the outboard would seem to me to be pretty damned good especially since the motors a tad on the heavy side to be liftin on and off everytime you want to use it

While the theif quite often has no idea of what theyre nicking (its just quick money to them) or how much it may mean to the person theyre nickin it from... its in your best interest to make it hard to take the more you have to make them spend more time to get to it the less likey they will try to nick it... trouble is most people like the nice new shiney motors dangling of their pride and joys bums... and many like to leave older things lookin new and in good nick on their babies... trouble with that is so do the bloody theives!

Deterance works against the opportunist... locks see above pursuader takes but a few short secs to cut any locks shank with one...

I knew a fella in Mandurah awhile back who bought a brand new KevlaCat with 2 bloody great outboards on the back end proud as punch for all of a week then tears when he walked out the side of his house one ARVO to show it off to a couple of mates... to find one KevlaCat sans motors!!... bloody theives had seen it parked there and backed the ute up hoisted the jack they had on the side of the ute for just such things and undid it all within an easy breathe for two strappin blokes... they had the above pursuader with them... he reckoned they had got them both within an hour!

These two knobs got caught one night about a month later tryin to hoist another blokes brand new outboard straight of the back of the boat right at the bloody boat ramp while the owner was sittin drinking a few quick ones in the Yacht clubrooms less than 100mtrs away!! Apparently they prowled around till they spotted a likely target (they sure knew their outboards! Only the best would do) and then just help themselves hold them in one or the others garage for a few months then advertise them in the West Aussie newspaper!

Some marinas here have locks and gates and such to keep people out that dont have boats in there but still they do have some issues tryin to keep cruising boats from wandering around checking things out... specially if theres a fishin boat harbor attached to the marina ala Mandurahs new ubeaut boat harbor!... not sayin fishermen are theives most arent just that it allows the harbor to be accessable at anytime to anyone with a boat including theives intent on checkin out the boats!

What to do to stop such? Paint mate paint they went for new or good nick vintage chains locks whatever to slow the buggars down... trouble is I can see a day coming where you will have to down dress your baby just so its nondescript enough to look like a turdish old relic

But your boats no safer in your driveway than at the marina... unless you make some conscious efforts at security

[mdevour]

You've given me a number of ideas to try, folks. Thank you.

I'm having a hard time imagining what sort of paint-job I would do on this thing... One that would "deface" it without being a real embarassment. Maybe something with a couple colors of primer, eh?

I think I'd like to fab some kind of metal shield to protect the mounting bracket and motor clamps. If I configure it so that a husky padlock is recessed into a hole or slot so that you can't get to the hasp with a bolt-cutter or anything, I think it ought to do as much as can be done.

I've mentioned to my wife the idea of buying a small motor for day-sailing and reserving the 10hp for when we want to go cruising.

I doubt there's much to do beyond that.

I appreciate the perspective that your experiences and suggestions have given me. I think it will help me to have a realistic approach and expectations.

Mike D.

[Patrick Miller]

I used to take my outboard off the bracket and stow it below in the cabin when I kept my boat on a swing mooring. One day I was driving by and looked out to my boat as usual and saw the companion was open. I went home and got the dinghy, rowed out, and of course the outboard was gone. But probably worse than that was the mess they made of the washboards and companion hatch with a screwdriver getting it open. This wasn't opportunism - someone had watched me stow it below and had returned specifically to steal THAT motor. I never did replace the motor, and I never locked the hatch after that. There was nothing else aboard worth stealing.

[Wild Dingo]

Sadly Pat your right mate... seems that theres a fair few basturds out there who prey on people watching and waiting for the time then help themselves

I often wonder if the simple no frills approach isnt worthwhile in the long run?

sorta like cars... I drive the roughest beatup most horendous looking F100 and leave the doors windows open everywhere I go... never had a thing nicked... when I had the new car Id have to lock it every time I stepped out of the bloody thing! As does the missus with her car... simply put the old buggar isnt interesting enough or "worth" enough for them to bother even lookin at

Perhaps thats the way were heading with our boats? keep the baby well maintained but make the paint job look like shes seen better days... keep an old rusted outboard on her bum (if they do nick it so what?) just make a pretence of old rough uselessness... while underneath she will be stunning while when you want to go for a rip to the reef for some fishing you bring your good outboard in the back of the ute and swap it for the old useless one!

Buggar of a thing though... but endemic of the way our societies have changed since the 60s

[Andrew]

A 24' sailboat shouldn't be too hard to move along with sweeps. ??

[Patrick Miller]

Originally posted by Wild Dingo:
sorta like cars... I drive the roughest beatup most horendous looking F100 and leave the doors windows open everywhere I go... never had a thing nicked... when I had the new car Id have to lock it every time I stepped out of the bloody thing! As does the missus with her car... simply put the old buggar isnt interesting enough or "worth" enough for them to bother even lookin

That's fine as far as it goes. I used to drive an old battered HQ Holden that I left unlocked. The thieves used to regularly leave the car and steal the Melway (Melbourne street directory)so I used to put it in the boot!!!

While I have no pride at all when it comes to cars, I'm sure we all like our boats to look their best. I reckon the mentality of a thief is so far removed from a wooden boat lover that those dipsticks wouldn't value a neat, well kept boat at all. Now if it were a vulgar, trashy plasic thing with valuable bits and pieces hanging from it their eyes light up. Yet to my eyes, a simple, sweet lined wooden boat, with no appendages is far more appealing than one with heaps of extraneous stuff.

[mdevour]

Originally posted by Andrew:
A 24' sailboat shouldn't be too hard to move along with sweeps. ??

Sweeps??

Mike

[ahp]

Yes sweeps. I have never done it but a friend, with others rowed, with two sweeps, a 40 ft Tancook Whaler most of the way across Massachusetts Bay before the wind came up.

Folkboats (25 ft LOA, 4400 lbs) are sometimes rowed with a sweep. Another friend met a young couple with a Folkboat cruising in Nova Scotia. Their only auxillary power was a sweep.

[Andrew]

Sweep - (nautical) A long oar used to propel a boat.

Often used in a standing position allowing the user to face forward.

You might consider sculling or using a yulo, a specialized sculling oar used in the orient. Try the search thingy on "yulo".

All of the above might not cut it in a stiff wind blowing on a lee shore.

[Dave Hadfield]

I didn't mean an ugly paint job. Make it attractive -- a custom job that matches your boat. Make sure you paint more than just the cowl.

It's just the act of painting it at all that makes it un-saleable.

[mdevour]

Originally posted by Dave Hadfield:
I didn't mean an ugly paint job. Make it attractive -- a custom job that matches your boat.

Thanks, Dave! That feels a little better. I'll give it some thought...

Mike

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

My buddy has a sign on his shop door that has skull and crossbones on it and the motto:

Nothing in here is worth your life.



There's this one too:



About five years ago, my dad has his five horse nissan stolen from his boat. A week later was his birthday, and my stepbrother had already bought his present: A marine lock and cable for the outboard.

[ 02-14-2006, 10:15 PM: Message edited by: Peter Malcolm Jardine ]