Is there a positive note?

[Benjamin Tyler]

Lets see. I pick up the paper this morning. The pres says that we must all take a gut check and expect more body bags to be comeing into Delaware over the next unspecified number of years. ( is our duty to make sure the Iraqis are hapy in their new found freedoms) The next page has information on the price of oil surging on a daily basis-seems they cant pump enough of the stuff to satisfy a greedy world. The next page has a note about another Pacific Island going under the water as global warming cases sea level to rise and a peoples way of life is goen forever. Another page tells of the interior department winning another court battle that will allow logging interests to decimate another of the very few old growth forests let on the continent. Next page how the mercury levels have been rapidly rising in the past few years in pelagic fishes- and a side bar that mentions the Bush epa rolling back clean air standards.

Now my point is-what has gw done that should win him reelection? What has he done that is a positive thing for our nation and for the world? Something that is unargueable by either side, but just is?

[Wild Dingo]

Originally posted by Benjamin Tyler:
Now my point is-what has gw done that should win him reelection? What has he done that is a positive thing for our nation and for the world? Something that is unargueable by either side, but just is?

Look I realize Im not from thereabouts and dont even live there and definantly aint a US citizen but... I KNOW!!!! TRUE!!! Ridgey Didge mate I know I do...


Dubya deserves to be reelected cause...

Drum roll....

He fell ass over tit off his deadly treadly!!

There yer go mate see hes human [img]tongue.gif[/img] I think Joe and Memphis Mike will probably dispute that word association I just used but mate he breathes he falls over he pulls weird faces he says even weirder things... and NOW!

He falls ass over his handlebars while wearing a grid iron helmet!! AMAZIN joker your President fair dinkum its not a wonder our wally waker Little Johnny Howie and the poms legendary Bleary Blair are so starry eyed and focused on followin him so fully... a grid iron helmet with a mouth guard no less on a bloody push bike!! TRUELY AMAZING and definantly worthy of another term just for that!!! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Keith Wilson]

Invading Afghanistan; I'll give him that. Things may not have gone all that well afterwards, but removing the Taliban and their "guests" was the right thing to do.

[Wild Dingo]

Okay I give you that Keith... but what else??? Come on yous fellas he musta done something other than hit Afganistan and wipe the groud with the Taliban then fall on his ass of a push bike? Surely!!

mmmm seems I really dont take a whole lot of notice of American in country politics else Id have some idea of what else he has done... ah well enough worryin about what little johnny brown nose and his band of fairy men are up to let alone what the US Pres is doing for his country

[Del Lansing]

The next page has information on the price of oil surging on a daily basis-seems they cant pump enough of the stuff to satisfy a greedy world.

That explains its' self; it's a greedy world. It has nothing to do with Bush and more to do with China building 3 cities the size of San Antonio to house the displaced residents from the gorges dam project, which in itself is a demand on oil supplies and driving the price up.

another Pacific Island going under the water as global warming cases sea level to rise and a peoples way of life is goen forever.

And Bush can stop this how? The "experts" say global warming started at the turn of the 1900s.

another court battle that will allow logging interests to decimate another of the very few old growth forests let on the continent.

Taking out every tenth tree (you did say decimate) is not so bad. It creates fire roads and eliminates underbrush that fuels wildfires and helps protect the forests from _total_destruction.

mercury levels have been rapidly rising in the past few years in pelagic fishes-

Mercury has been a problem since the 60s. Bush didn't create mercury pollution.

side bar that mentions the Bush epa rolling back clean air standards.

Our lawnmowers and outboards are now under new _stricter_emmission standards. Did you know trees cause ozone pollution? trees make ozone

So since all your points are mute, the need for something positive becomes less. George did say 2 1/2 years ago we were in for a long protracted fight against terrorists, taking the fight to wherever they take refuge, he is standing by his word. He did say he would give us tax relief to fuel the recovery in the economy, it's recovering true to his word. Those really are the 2 main "worries" to the public, economy and terrorists, and he is standing by his word to deal with both items.

[WWheeler]

... choked on a pretzel too. This is getting better than Gerald Ford.

[Memphis Mike]

"Now my point is-what has gw done that should win him reelection"

He can't be re-elected as he never was elected in the first place. Even if he manages to be re-appointed, he'll always be Amurica's B@$!@*# Son. The "Un-President."

[ 05-25-2004, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: Memphis Mike ]

[NormMessinger]

Del buys in to the positive sounding names the Administration puts on their initiatives, The Healthy Forest Initive for example and perhaps he feels roads in wilderness areas is a good thing. Some folks in Utah agree. Here is another slant on things: http://www.sensiblesafeguards.org/sit.html

[Matt J.]

It's the economy, stupid. Bumps in the road, hiccups in the markets, 9-11 aside... the economy is apparently strong. Strong enough that land development and many luxury markets are simply booming. It's Afghanistan, stupid. Like it or not, terrorism finally hit home, and something needed to be done. It's so easy to Tuesday morning quarterback with the wealth of information the media provides, isn't it? Yep, they said on the news that all Iraqis hate us, and all the prisoners were tortured... musta been wrong...
I say again:

Norm, you're posting a link to such a heavily biased source that it's hard to take serious - for me, at least... the way you're beginning to rail about Bush is only a few steps above Memphis Mike... speaking of which, Mike, when are you scheduled to leave the forum for good (again, again)? Or at least add something constructive to the conversation.

[ 05-25-2004, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: Matt J. ]

[Benjamin Tyler]

Originally posted by Del Lansing:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> The next page has information on the price of oil surging on a daily basis-seems they cant pump enough of the stuff to satisfy a greedy world.

That explains its' self; it's a greedy world. It has nothing to do with Bush and more to do with China building 3 cities the size of San Antonio to house the displaced residents from the gorges dam project, which in itself is a demand on oil supplies and driving the price up.

another Pacific Island going under the water as global warming cases sea level to rise and a peoples way of life is goen forever.

And Bush can stop this how? The "experts" say global warming started at the turn of the 1900s.

another court battle that will allow logging interests to decimate another of the very few old growth forests let on the continent.

Taking out every tenth tree (you did say decimate) is not so bad. It creates fire roads and eliminates underbrush that fuels wildfires and helps protect the forests from _total_destruction.

mercury levels have been rapidly rising in the past few years in pelagic fishes-

Mercury has been a problem since the 60s. Bush didn't create mercury pollution.

side bar that mentions the Bush epa rolling back clean air standards.

Our lawnmowers and outboards are now under new _stricter_emmission standards. Did you know trees cause ozone pollution? trees make ozone

So since all your points are mute, the need for something positive becomes less. George did say 2 1/2 years ago we were in for a long protracted fight against terrorists, taking the fight to wherever they take refuge, he is standing by his word. He did say he would give us tax relief to fuel the recovery in the economy, it's recovering true to his word. Those really are the 2 main "worries" to the public, economy and terrorists, and he is standing by his word to deal with both items.</font>[/QUOTE]Hm. lets see Del. Just what has gw done to help wean us off of all the oil that is so quickly being gobbled up by rapidly industrializing 3rd world nations? Has he created a new initiative akin to the Manhattan project to make us first in the world in alternative forms of energy? No. He instead invades a 3rd world country on a phoney pretext and the price of oil skyrockets, causing Americans to in effect finance our enemies in gws so called war on terrorism.

YOur quote of the forest thing sounds like its straight out of gw speech to a group of plywood manufacturers. Nuff said bout that.

Lets see gw didnt create the mercury problem but he sure has set back our already feeeble attempts to help clean it up with his so called " clean air initiative"

and for global warming we have as the leader of our country not a forward thinking man but a pin headed nit wit who refuses to even aknowledge that global warming even exists let alone do anything to conserrve resources, ratify kyoto, or invent clean sources of fuels.

Im sick of hearing about how great the economy is or is going to be doing? does any one feel that even if the economy picks up that, that is a good indication our country is headed in the right direction? When did the economy become the sole dictate of our nation being better off?

[Meerkat]

Good Post, Benjamin

[TimH]

[quote]Originally posted by Del Lansing:

Taking out every tenth tree (you did say decimate) is not so bad. It creates fire roads and eliminates underbrush that fuels wildfires and helps protect the forests from _total_destruction.
Did you know trees cause ozone pollution?

Now I have heard it all...so without people to thin the old growth the forests would soon perish? And now trees are bad for the environment. funny funny funny...

[Chris Coose]

Matt has enlightened us with this economic indicator

Strong enough that land development and many luxury markets are simply booming.

Which tells us that the upper end is in fact benefiting from tax relief and the rest of us should stand in line to get trickled on. Otherwise, the economy just plain sucks and is getting worse everyday by way of the defecit and wait just another second or two to see how this once cent a day gas hike works on the thriving economy.

Then he goes on to inform us that

It's Afghanistan, stupid.

while we loose a couple soldiers a day fighting some yet to be determined threat in Iraq.

Stupid, he says.

I am in awe of these folks who would continue to tell us that all is right on track. It must be pride that keeps them from admitting anything else.

Yeah right, dubbya is protecting the enviornment. He has rolled back over 200 initiatives since he got appointed, most of his actions appear to be spitefully motivated, cause it ain't real science he uses.

Unbelieveable.

[Matt J.]

Chris, my blue blooded fingers are tired of typing... .

First, my post was truncated to remove a lot of irritated typing about all this name calling, labeling, and he-said, she-said, dims, rips, neocons, liberals, conservative junk that endlessly goes on... I think my shortened post may have been worse than the long angry one...

I think that Afghanistan was the right thing to do. I think the economy (I work in development, though try not to hold it against me) is recovering from 2001-2002. I work in construction, and if you think land development makes fat cats wealthy, and less-fortunate less fortunate, get out of your office, go down to the nearest large construction site, and see how many fat cats are employed building that project. The guys I meet on sites are middle class, blue-collar, and none complain about the economy. They joke that so many people complain about it. If anything, they'll complain they can't find enough people to do the work. Yeah, Chris, let's call it trickle down and label that, too.

When our decidedly blue collar neighborhood is showing more and more signs of home-improvement (that's a luxury item, you realize?), nicer cars, more toys (TVs, satellite dishes, pools, - all "luxury" items as I define thenm)... will you tell me only fat cats are getting fatter? You'd have to be an idiot. Sorry, but I see nothing indicating a "growing gap" between rich and poor. i see lots of folks doing, on the surface, very well, and enjoying many luxury items. (I'm the only "professional" I know in the neighborhood - rest are labor, mechanics, HVAC, gov't, and everything under the sun).

But, no Chris, let's just call him "dubbya" and the shrub, and refer to it as "The Administration" and "The Bush Administration" and claim he singlehandedly, with no outside influence or information - of course, except the fat cats he hob knobs with all the time - just rolled back those environmental regulations. Let's just assume the massive bureaucracy we callthe Goverment of the United States, had nothing to do with it. Only conservatives got to give information before he personally and solely rolled 'em back... Nothing in politics gets done singularly. Not wars, not laws, not regulations. You truly beleive no one in the EPA or whatever concurred or, dare I say it, suggested these changes? THere's just no evidence of it. You are so eager to believe, and be blind, that you, a seemingly intelligent person, will beleive - you said it - that he did it out of "spite"?!

That's the problem. Blinders on, mouth flapping. Let's just keep calling each other names (call me anything, I don't fit the perceived molds at all well for any labels, so they all work) and fighting for the morons from either party who want the hot seat in the white house... yep, lots of good it does. DOes it bother you that there are talks with the Nader folks to convince them not to lose the election for Kerry? At all, does it bother you? What's that tell you? That you're being led around (so are the... what is it? Oh yes, RWW's) by the divide and conquer strategy. So busy arguing for "your" side, your not making sense or even trying to.

Now, I've GOT to get out of the bilge... Rarus' is dirty, and I have to climb around in there tonight already...

Regards,
Matt

[Matt J.]

This may be short-sighted, Chris, but I like seeing gas prices go up. I love seeing people needlessly driving around in a fat-arsed SUV squirm at the gas stations... I wish they'd start charging for water better, too. About time the market corrects the wastefulness and inefficiencies in BOTH segments of the market. You think gas prices / resources are scary? Wait til you see what the worlds' water supply looks like in the coming years...

How can you be upset about higher gas prices? Isn't it a good thing? I'm dead serious.
-Matt

[NormMessinger]

Hey MM. I just want you to know that I'm placed in pretty good company.

Biased source, indeed. Perhaps the O'Reilly ilk could set me on the path to truth.

[Memphis Mike]

Thanks Norm. It just irritates the hell outa the republicans when they are reminded that Dubya is in office illegally doesn't it?

"When our decidedly blue collar neighborhood is showing more and more signs of home-improvement (that's a luxury item, you realize?), nicer cars, more toys (TVs, satellite dishes, pools, - all "luxury" items as I define thenm)... will you tell me only fat cats are getting fatter?"

Here is something constructive but I doubt if you understand. If people in your blue collar neighborhood are loading up on luxury items, I can just about guarantee you they are loading up on credit card debt also. That's exactly what the government wants them to do.

[Del Lansing]

Just what has gw done to help wean us off of all the oil that is so quickly being gobbled up by rapidly industrializing 3rd world nations

What have you done? what gas mileage does _your_vehicle get. There is more you can do than Bush can do by regulations. It was a favorite-son Clinton that removed the tax credit for solar installation by homeowners. The whole statement is so falacious it is pathetic; we have to conserve/cut back so the 3rd world can gobble it up?

YOur quote of the forest thing sounds like its straight out of gw speech to a group of plywood manufacturers.

No that is from decades of silvaculture experience. How many forests have you managed?

but he sure has set back our already feeeble attempts to help clean it up with his so called " clean air initiative"

There is far more mercury injected into the marine bioshere from black-smokers than any other source.

refuses to even aknowledge that global warming even exists let alone do anything to conserrve resources, ratify kyoto, or invent clean sources of fuels.

OK, show me proof-positive that warming is tied to emmissions. You have a computer, google up something that is_real_proof, not something based on synthetic computer models. The "greenhouse effect" was first proposed in 1880s, hmmm, there haven't even been cars or airplanes invented yet but science said there's a "greenhouse effect"? Any 1 (one) of the 120 active volcanoes on earth puts out 100 times the emissions of human sources. That isn't even 1/1000th of 1% and we haven't figured in the methane from the termites of the world, or the gas from swamps, rotting forest material. But best of all read this from web page notice his conclusion, "But the question of the `Chicken and the Egg' for the ice core measurements seems quite clear: First comes the warming, then comes the CO2."

When did the economy become the sole dictate of our nation being better off?

Who was it that continuously trumpetted, "it's the economy stupid."?

And now trees are bad for the environment. funny funny funny...

read this, tree pollution
It is clear. You see sometimes things aren't quite as rosy as they look on the surface.

[Del Lansing]

It just irritates the hell outa the republicans when they are reminded that Dubya is in office illegally doesn't it?

That is so obtuse it is pathetic, the history goes:Gore lost, sues for recount, recount says-Gore lost. Sues again and goes to supreme court- says Gore lost. Three newspapers sue to conduct their own recounts-all 3 say-GORE LOST.

[Matt J.]

Norm, post a link to O'Reily (sp?) and I'll tell you the same thing. It's ridiculous to be so closed minded as to listen to ANY source so biased... find me a report prepared, at leaston the surface, by an unbiased source, I'll listen.

MM, so credit cards were invented as part of the conspiracy? Okey-dokey, then. my neighbors are not buying on credit. They're buying on equity gained, on tax $ (they seem to like to deduct too much, as a whole), or savings. Very few are increasing debt to do it. Can we try to be rational?

Mike, what gives you the impression it "irritates the hell outa [me] when [I'm] reminded that Dubya is in office illegally...?" I know as much as you about what smoke and mirrors went on 3 years ago - diddly. Oh, I'm sorry, you read newspapers, therefore you are qualified to decide the case. Again:

If you'd let go of this goofy hatred and anger, perhaps you could open your mind to something called "rational thinking." I'm willing to listen if you start making rational sense. Conspiracy theories and paranoia don't count (unless you include all politicians, like me ).

Cheers,
Matt