Need help picking out boat plans

[P.drizzle]

Hi guys,
New here. I've never built a boat before. I'm looking to build a small sailboat. I'm sure you guys have much more experience and knowledge than I do and can help steer me in the right direction.
I really like the looks of the peapod type boats but I've never even seen one in person, let alone rowed or sailed one so I have no idea whether they make decent sailing boats or not.
What I'm looking for;
Primarily a boat to be used for sailing and secondarily be used as a fishing boat.
I'll mostly be using this on inland lakes and possibly the great lakes on rare occasions. It will probably never see the ocean. I'd like to also be able to put a small (less than 5hp) motor on it for when it will be used for fishing.
It will be mostly used by me, alone, but on occasion I can see also taking my wife and 2 kids out also. I'm not sure how big of a boat I'll need or what the best plans are for something that fits that description.
Any guidance is appreciated.
Also needs to be trailerable
Thank you

[Autonomous]

You have a good start on a Statement Of Requirements (SOR). That is helpful.
Let me address the peapod design. Double enders have some disadvantages. They effectively make the boat a couple feet shorter as the stern lacks room and capacity. They force the helmsperson forward which complicates the tiller. They really complicate engine installation.
Dories with fine sterns are the same way.
Family. The kids aren't getting smaller. Is the wife going to be comfortable sitting on the sole or will she accompany you more if there are side benches?
My 15' double ended sail-n-oar boat has no side benches and is full with two adults. You could smash a couple small kids in too, but no one would be comfortable. It also has a push-pull tiller. A motor would have to be cobbed onto the stern quarter, a bad idea.
My 17' transom sterned sail-n-oar boat can accommodate four adults on comfortable side benches. It has a real tiller (!) which can be traded for an outboard motor. FWIW the 2 1/2 hp motor delivers hull speed at 1/3 throttle.

Duckworks has a good catalog of designs and is a fine place to look at different boats.

Tell us more about your skills, building space, etc.

[Woxbox]

Never built a boat, but have you built any furniture? Or installed some kitchen cabinets that required some fitting? Tackling something like a peapod as a first boat would big quite a leap unless you've done some real woodworking before.

There are dozens of boat designs that fit your requirements. A really good way to get a decent boat with minimum headaches is to buy a kit of precut plywood. These boats don't necessarily look like plywood boats from any distance. Bonded with epoxy and protected with fiberglass where needed, they stand up to trailering very well.

One example would be CLC's Jimmy Skiff. You would outgrow it as a family of four in a few short years, however.

At the upper end of the spectrum would be something like Clint Chase's Calendar Islands 18. That's a lot more boat, and more work and expense to build. But you would not outgrow it, and even as a solo boat, you'd find it a lot more reassuring in bigger waters.

If you want to build from scratch, that opens a lot more possibilities, of course. But you'll want to find a plan that comes with detailed instructions -- this is a point that varies a great deal from one designer to another.

[P.drizzle]

As far as woodworking experience goes I've mostly made smaller projects with the biggest being a cabinet. I've also made snowboards and knives. I understand a boat is going to be a whole different animal.
I would prefer to not use a kit and instead build from scratch. I find more joy in it.
As far as space goes I have a fairly large polebarn with 2 garage doors on it that I would be building it in. Space won't be an issue. It does not have temperature control however. I'm not sure if that will cause issues or not?

I'm certain the more comfortable my wife is, the more likely she will be to join me. So I suppose side seats would be a bonus.
I do see what you mean about double enders being effectively smaller than they are. I have not thought about that. I'm not dead set on a double ender. I know they don't serve the functionality that I'd like out of the boat, but they sure are pretty.

I'm glad that I asked, I've been looking at boat plans around 12' in length and both of you suggested much longer boats of 17 or 18'

[Autonomous]

Are you okay working with epoxy? Most modern small wood boats are mostly plywood-epoxy.
If you want raw traditional beauty look at Ian Oughtred's double enders or Francois Vivier's boats. The other end of the aesthetic spectrum has easier to build, quite good but plain Jane boats like Mikesboat or the Mayfly 16.

[P.drizzle]

Yes, when I make snowboards there's epoxy and fiberglass involved, but that is also a very simple application application of it.
Thanks for the mayfly 16 suggestion. It's a neat boat

[WI-Tom]

I think you're getting good advice here. One thing to keep in mind is that length by itself is not a good measure of a boat's size, for figuring out how many passengers you might fit in with some degree of comfort. Volume is the more relevant measure--a beamy/wide short boat might well have more usable interior space than a longer, narrower boat.

My own boat is an 18' boat, but as far as usable space, it's not much bigger than a big canoe. I can (and have) fit 3 people in, but...

1. They can't move around much--each person has to kind of stay in their little zone.
2. Things get complicated and scary for novices when trying to sail a full boat. It's a bit easier with experienced sailors because they will be comfortable with the boat heeling, the sail moving from side to side when you tack, etc. But people who don't know much (yet) about sailing have to be watched and coached by the skipper so they don't get hurt (the boom hitting heads), or so they don't do the wrong thing at the wrong time and make the skipper's job worse.

I may be a bit more pessimistic than most, but I have spent a lot of time and thousands of miles in small open sailboats. And I think you'd have to go for a pretty big boat--the Calendar Islands Yawl mentioned earlier might work--to fit in 2 adults and some kids with comfort. It's just not that much fun for anyone to try to sail a crowded boat, unless conditions are very calm and non-stressful. And then, of course, it's not always that pleasant either because that can be boring for normal people who aren't obsessed by boats to the point that they don't really care that much about comfort.

Good luck with the build! DUCKWORKS really is a great source, as is our host's Wooden Boat Store. Some designers to check out, off the top of my head:

Clint Chase (not sure he's on Duckworks, but he has his own website)
John Welsford
Ross Lillistone
Selway-Fisher (separate website, LOTS of boat plans)
CLC Boats (separate website, LOTS of boat plans)
Jim Michalak (simple cheap quick-to-build boats are a specialty--his Family Skiff is great)
Phil Bolger (website with his plans is Common Sense Boats)

A fairly common path into boatbuilding is to build a quick cheap boat, maybe a simple flat-bottomed skiff, to use while deciding on and building your "real" boat. Some find that the cheap boat alone does what they need; for others, it's a gateway drug.

Good luck!

Tom

[Woxbox]

If you want a traditional boat that's very roomy and stable for its length, then the catboat is the answer. The WoodenBoat store sells plans for a couple.

One is the Wittholz line of catboats. The 14' 11" boat is the most daysailer you can get in that length. This is a plywood boat. It can be built as shown here or with a small cuddy cabin forward.



A truly elegant model is Joel White's Marshcat. This would be a much more complicated build, usually done strip planked. These are both beamy boats, so they don't row well at all and hence both samples shown here carry the small outboard you plan on anyway. Catboats make good fishing platforms, too, thanks to their high initial stability. They also tend to heel less and make non-sailors much more comfortable as a result.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Hi guys,
New here. I've never built a boat before. I'm looking to build a small sailboat.



Thank you

How much sailing have you done - and in what types of boat?

P.S. persuading a wife into a small open boat is quite an accomplishment - doing it twice comes close to miracle status.

[shortboot]

2 websites might want to look at Boat Builder Central and Atkin & Co

[jpatrick]

P.drizzle... I perfectly understand you not wanting to build a kit boat but be aware that the other approaches will present more challenges. I am a very accomplished wood worker and for my first boat I chose one that had a very detailed set of plans. Still, not a kit, my Somes Sound came with full size drawings of the important stuff: molds, bulkheads, stem, etc. John Brooks, the designer, presents a very nice package of drawings. I began the project thinking that this thing would be a breeze. Well... it wasn't. There are still plenty of things to "figure out." But the nice thing about the plans is that I always had the confidence that the boat would come out to the proper size and correct form. With that worry out of the way, I could concentrate on the details.

So for your design parameters, I'd suggest you take a look at Brooks' Ellen design. This is a 12 glued lapstrake sail/oar/small motor beauty. I've never had the opportunity to try one out, but from its lines, I'd think it very stable.

ellenptraversweb.jpg

Here is the website: http://www.brooksboatsdesigns.com/Br...ge9/page9.html

I have no affiliation with Brooks other than having purchased his boat plans.

Jeff

[John hartmann]

Slightly larger than Ellen, but smaller than Clint Chase’s big Calendar Islands yawl, Francois Vivier's Ebihen has a motor well to avoid the need for a transom or bracket mounted outboard. Vivier sells plans with full sized patterns as well as CNC kits for the hull planking.
5538EBCE-6573-4769-B323-C07AE502EC27.jpg
I would be looking at boats of this magnitude (Iain Oughtred’s Caledonia yawl would also be in this range, and have been built with outboard wells). The great lakes are oceans, they just don’t have tides or salt water. A boat that can handle some rough water while you are getting to safe harbor is a worthwhile investment of your time and money, and one with enough hull volume and freeboard to keep you and your crew dry will become a valued friend in short order.
Building a glued lap boat in an unheated space in northern tier states is eminently do-able, with space heaters and a tarp tent over work pieces to keep a glue-up warm as it cures, but requires some faffing around with the heater and coverings. I built an Ilur dinghy over a winter in Vermont in an unheated garage that way.

[darroch]

Don't be too discouraged about building from scratch. Your temperatment, finances, access to good materials and time constraints may take precedence over any decision you make, just don't dismiss the option out of hand. You may even find the challenges of developing new skills so rewarding you become engrossed in the process and become oblivious to the result. This happened to me. I had some (latent and undeveloped) skills but no tools and no experience. I did, however, have a good set of plans and the generous advice of the designer.


You may find that your wife and/or children are just not into it in the same way you are. You may find that you need to moderate your outings (by sail, oar or auxilliary) to fit the mood or abilities of your crew. You may want to push the envelope when alone. You may find you enjoy being alone. Build a boat you will enjoy being alone in. Maybe later build a small boat like a nutshell pram so the kids can sail and row with you or, in a pinch, can be towed by the mothership. Just food for thought.

THE VIEW.jpg

[Autonomous]

Hull form. You mention rowing and sailing. The best rowboats are narrow, tender and not good for sailing. Sailboats need more beam and freeboard to stand up to the sails, but they have more resistance through the water and wind.
Sail & oar boats seem to work in the ~ 5' beam range. My little boat with 54" beam uses 8' oars, the one with 67" beam has 9 1/2' oars.

Put some effort into an honest SOR. Buy a few study plans when you feel you are getting close to making a decision.
I recommend you buy an inexpensive subscription to Off Center Harbor. They have videos of boat builds. Geoff Kerr's, How to Build a Caledonia Yawl series is especially good. They have a series showing a master, Russel Brown, working with epoxy. Russel also has a few very inexpensive ebooks also.
Good boat building books available too.

[adktripper]

Goat island skiff may fit the bill

[neil.henderson]

Building from scratch (well plans + wood + tools) is fun and well worth trying. My 1st boat was a Hartley TS16 & i chose this because the Hartleys are designed to be built by home builders - very stable roomy boats for 16'. My 2nd was a David Payne snapper motor launch - beautiful design and slips through the water like an eel. 3rd was an Iain Oughtred Gannet 14' 6" sailing dinghy because I wanted to plane again before I sieze up completely. Now I am building an Iain Oughtred Caledonia Yawl because I always wanted a yawl and I want to weekend cruise. I hanker after building a Francois Vivier Jewell.
So, be aware you can get hooked like me - but then its great fun and the people on this forum are very helpful. The Off Center Harbor website contains wonderful videos and is well worth the small investment. As are the books by Iain Oughtred, Greg Rossel, John Brooks/Ruth Ann Hill.

Have fun

Regards Neil

[Autonomous]

B&B Yacht Designs do very well in the WaterTribe type events and have a loyal following.

[gypsie]

First boat....

Nutshell; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...-Pram-9-6-quot
I put an electric 45lb trolling motor on it with a 100amp/H deep-cycle battery - got heaps of use. Pushed it along perfectly well - quiet - ahhhh

A joy to sail.

Straight forward to build. It can be as industrial and practical as you want - or as beautifully finished.
It's easy enough to build that you'll probably finish it (this is a real issue for first builds). Such a good design you will use it cause it's easy to. It flips onto a box-trailer, or at a small stretch it'll go on a roof rack (bit wider than a standard rr, and bit of a lift).
I've sailed it by myself and with my partner. Fine on both counts.

[P.drizzle]

How much sailing have you done - and in what types of boat?

P.S. persuading a wife into a small open boat is quite an accomplishment - doing it twice comes close to miracle status.

I've actually never sailed before. I grew up on a lake and we all sorts of boats, paddle boats, row boats, canoes, motor boats, at one time a boat you could live in, but never a sailboat.

[P.drizzle]

Thanks, I'll be sure to check out those designers!
I also appreciate the honesty about having to go bigger in order to be comfortable and have fun. Ive got some thinking to do now

[P.drizzle]

So for your design parameters, I'd suggest you take a look at Brooks' Ellen design. This is a 12 glued lapstrake sail/oar/small motor beauty. I've never had the opportunity to try one out, but from its lines, I'd think it very stable

Yes. Ellen is a great looking boat and it says sailable and motorable. Might be exactly what I'm looking for!

[P.drizzle]

Thank you for the boat suggestion and the comment about being about to make it work in the winter. How many hours did it take you to build your ilur and how did it turn out? Have you built any other boats?

[P.drizzle]

Yeah, I'm not sure if they will accompany me or if I'll be solo most of the time. But I would like for there to be room if they do want to tag along but you are probably right in being alone more often than not. Maybe 2 boats is better. Decisions decisions

[P.drizzle]

Thank you! The comment about bean range for a sail/row boat is very helpful. I'll look for something around 5'.

[P.drizzle]

First boat....

Nutshell; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...-Pram-9-6-quot
I put an electric 45lb trolling motor on it with a 100amp/H deep-cycle battery - got heaps of use. Pushed it along perfectly well - quiet - ahhhh

A joy to sail.

Straight forward to build. It can be as industrial and practical as you want - or as beautifully finished.
It's easy enough to build that you'll probably finish it (this is a real issue for first builds). Such a good design you will use it cause it's easy to. It flips onto a box-trailer, or at a small stretch it'll go on a roof rack (bit wider than a standard rr, and bit of a lift).
I've sailed it by myself and with my partner. Fine on both counts.

Yeah, I can't decide whether to build something very small first like the nutshell you suggested or to just start off with the one I'll (hopefully) end up building anyways

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

I've actually never sailed before. I grew up on a lake and we all sorts of boats, paddle boats, row boats, canoes, motor boats, at one time a boat you could live in, but never a sailboat.

In the UK, about this time of year lots of sailing clubs run beginners courses, these are a great way of learning the basics and discovering what it is you really enjoy.
A brave man might sign the spouse and or kids up for the same type of course.

[John hartmann]

Thank you for the boat suggestion and the comment about being about to make it work in the winter. How many hours did it take you to build your ilur and how did it turn out? Have you built any other boats?

Waxwing took 11 & 1/2 months from pallet to splash, while I was working full time; she was an early CNC kit from Clint Chase that included the hull planks only, so there was a lot of materials sourcing and some parts fabrication, and a steep learning curve for me, as she was my first glued lapstrake build. She turned out to be a fabulous design and an adventure machine:

0D2BF936-572E-43F2-8D52-CA562A0059B0.jpg
She is a sea kindly enough boat, and easy enough to single hand that my wife (a previous non sailor) has become a seasoned crew, and has taken her out daysailing with friends by herself. This is another Vivier design which can be built from patterns rather than a kit—forum member Michael Owen has a thread about his lovely Ilur built from the pre-CNC plans. I believe Michael’s family is taking to his boat and to sailing as happily as my spouse did. Some designs are just like that.

[John hartmann]

And I totally agree with P.I. S-N about club sailing or local sailing schools. It was how I started sailing as a lad, and my wife has had some great courses as an adult student at the Wooden Boat School in Brooklin, ME. One of my sailing pals has been sending his now 13 year old son to a local sailing camp here in Vermont for the past three summers, and Will is almost ready to join his Dad and friends Coot Club style in a boat of his own.

[dalekidd]

Thoughts from an "experienced" novice. Sound like an oxymoron? Well, that's how I would describe myself. I'm a DIY'er with lots of experience at a lot of things but not necessarily proficient at any. I had built room additions, sheds, decks, remodels etc; but not boat building. I took a hankering to build a boat. I started searching and wound up building a stitch & glue 7'6" sailing dinghy. It was a great learning experience, but the boat was too small! So I built Boat Building Central's Semi Dory 11, another S&G boat. Much better sizewise, but I could have built it as easily as a first build as the previous build. Wish I had. I just finished Clint Chase's Calendar Islands Yawl 16. Built it from plans (my thread) though it also comes in a kit. I am soooo looking forward to getting her out on the water. I chose her because of the relative simplicity of the design (Clint suggests "advanced beginner"), it is a sail and oar boat and it has a removable floor that converts into a sleeping platform. Jim Allen has sailed his extensively including outings with as many as 4 adults. As far as an outboard, I would think it would take one but you'd probably have to beef up the transom. The CIY 18 would give you lots more room but also take a little more muscle to row. It was a lot of fun doing a lapstrake build as well. Lots of first timers have built them and done a wonderful job. Good luck on your journey.

[Autonomous]

A common bit of good advice for first time builders it to build a small dinghy first before you proceed to your so-called destination boat.
You make your mistakes and learn what techniques work for you on the first build and the second one goes together faster and is much better quality.

Finish. Getting a showboat finish takes a LOT of time, more than you imagine. To get around this you can accept a good workboat finish with semi-gloss paint.
Either way be patient with the build. An extra 5 minutes spent on a fillet can literally save 15 minutes of sanding later.

Designer. A living designer pretty much ensures plans that are up to date with available material and modern techniques.
We have at least one good one that posts here. John Wellsford.

Safety. There are a number of small sailboats with dismal self-recovery characteristics, others are much better. Digging around on YouTube you can find some examples.

[David Satter]

If it hasn't been mentioned. This is nice and simple. Goat Island Skiff | WoodenBoat Magazine

[Etdbob]

I like the Goat Island skiff.

Another favorite of mine is the "200 dollar" version of Bolgers Featherwind, which is also a simple, open skiff.

This is an easily built boat that you can carry on top of your car and take the whole family out in. It's the only boat I know of that is big enough, stable enough and light enough to do this.

It rows quite well and can take a trolling motor but you can't put a gas outboard on. I used a tarp lug sail on mine but the commonly used rig is the Sunfish lanteen, which is probably the least expensive sail rig you can buy, yet works great.

I built mine outside in a couple weekends. If you want a simple, inexpensive build that you can have fun messing about in this might be a good fit for you.

It's a great boat to get started with, a project that will not consume too much time and money.

Cutting out the sides -

SAM_6354.JPG

Sides, frames, transom and stem all ready for assembly -

SAM_6378.JPG

Suddenly it looks like a boat!

SAM_6390.JPG

This is mine on the water. Full thread here -

Featherwind (woodenboat.com)


SAM_7241.JPG



This is NeilNBs boat, recently completed. His building thread is here - Carnell Nutmeg: an MVB, a “minimum viable boat” (woodenboat.com)

[NeilMB]

The pictures say it all. Featherwind was a wonderful boat to build and wonderful fun to sail this last summer, speaking as someone who had never sailed a small boat before. I had sailed a Catalina 25 with my grandfather as a child and spent lots of time in canoes as an adult, but a rowing and sailing boat that can fit my whole family in a pinch is something altogether cooler.

More adventures coming this year once the water turns liquid again.

-Neil