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Thread: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

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    Default Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia


    • March 30, 2023 Updated 4:57 p.m. ET




    BRUSSELS — Finland won final approval on Thursday to join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, a major shift in the balance of power between the West and Russia that was set off by Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine.

    Turkey’s Parliament, in a session that went deep into the night, cast the last vote needed for Finland’s entry into NATO, greatly enlarging the alliance’s border with Russia in a strategic defeat for its president, Vladimir V. Putin. In invading Ukraine last year, he made it clear that he was intent on blocking NATO’s eastward expansion.


    Finland, with its 830-mile border with Russia, offers NATO a much stronger position to deter aggression, offering access to a strong military, as well as Finnish airspace, ports and sea lanes. NATO will also be better able to defend the Baltic nations and the Arctic, said Matti Pesu, a security expert with the Finnish Institute of International Affairs.


    “Finland will contribute to allied deterrence and defense, and NATO’s area of operations will significantly grow,” Mr. Pesu said.


    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/03...e=articleShare

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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    That's GOOD news!

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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    cue the kremlin apologists claiming that NATO is imperialistic
    "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    Russia makes fine bufferstate between China and the west
    Ragnar B.

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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    This has been a good day.

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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by mizzenman View Post
    Russia makes fine bufferstate between China and the west
    Well said!

    Glad Finland is in - hope Sweden is next.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    Finland is also the happiest country.
    ďCome, come, my conservative friend, wipe the dew off your spectacles and see the world is moving" - Elizabeth Cady Stanton

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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by mizzenman View Post
    Russia makes fine bufferstate between China and the west
    Ragnar, you win the Hammerschlagen. China is always a long game.

    Tom

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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    Congratulations, Finland!
    There are still some formalities left. The Turkish decision has to be filed in Washington (where the NATO archive is). After that the remaining details are totally in the hands of NATO (Stoltenberg) and Finland.

    Turkey and Hungary still need to show some hostility towards Sweden as a part of the domestic politics in these countries and have not accepted us yet. However, security also for Sweden is enhanced by Finland being a NATO member. If it takes long for Turkey and Hungary to accept also Sweden it will be negative for the common defence planning in the Baltic area; Sweden is crucial for reinforcing Finland as well as the Baltic states and Sweden being a NATO member will save time in an emergency.

    /Erik

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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by ERGR View Post

    Turkey and Hungary still need to show some hostility towards Sweden as a part of the domestic politics in these countries and have not accepted us yet.

    /Erik
    Long history of Sweden interfering in Hungry domestic politics. Care to explain why?

    ""KovŠcs wrote that ďSweden is constantly undermining (international) relations,Ē its ďthrone of moral superiority is crumbling,Ē and the country has shown a lack of ďcare and respectĒ towards Hungary.""

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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    The present Hungarian regime is not worthy of respect. And I was at school with child refugees from Hungary after the Russians invaded with tanks.
    Some things never change.

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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    The Swedish policy towards Hungary is the same as the EU policy. Sweden is currently presiding the EU. EU is holding back funds for Hungary for not living up to the EU charter regarding democracy. We're representing the hostile EU.
    The Swedish policy towards the Kurds and Turkey has been the same as the US policy and EU policy which Turkey doesn't like either.
    On top of that Sweden has had a high profile forreign policy, which means voicing opinions on other countries domestic problems. We've anoyed Erdogan and Orban for domestic purposes in Sweden. Finnish forreign policy has been the same, but they have been diplomatic and low keyed.
    I prefer the Finnish way. Forreign policy and especially national security should be handled by grown ups in Turkey, Hungary as well as Sweden.
    /Erik

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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    Anyone who pisses off both Orban and Erdogan is good in my book.

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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    I had feared Turkey would spoil the deal.

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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by ERGR View Post
    Forreign policy and especially national security should be handled by grown ups in Turkey, Hungary as well as Sweden.
    There's another couple of high profile countries I'd add to that list Erik...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Scheuer View Post
    I had feared Turkey would spoil the deal.
    Indeed, as did I.

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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Scheuer View Post
    I had feared Turkey would spoil the deal.
    Turkey plays it's own game. There is nothing putin can offer that would balance an arbitrary unjustifiable blocking of NATO expansion.
    WszystekPoTrochu's signature available only for premium forum users.

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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by ERGR View Post
    I prefer the Finnish way. Forreign policy and especially national security should be handled by grown ups in Turkey, Hungary as well as Sweden.
    /Erik
    I agree it is sometimes better for some conversations to be had in private. Biden is under attack for voicing out loud the situation in Israel.

    As to EU democracy, a Finnish minister told the people of Finland they could not vote unless they had the Covid vaccine, it would appear "EU democracy" is considered to be different depending on what EU country you are in and what the issue is. One mans terrorist is another nations freedom fighter.

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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    Remember the palmy days when Dubya could see Putin's soul, and there was even a brief moment when there was idle talk of inviting Russia into NATO?

    LOL.
    Gerard>
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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    Johan R
    Finnish minister told the people of Finland they could not vote unless they had the Covid vaccine
    Got a reference for that ?

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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    Now with the addition of Finland and it's 830 mile border is now added to Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece and TŁrkiye. Forming a complete eastern NATO wall against Russia.
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Splodge View Post
    Johan R
    Finnish minister told the people of Finland they could not vote unless they had the Covid vaccine
    Got a reference for that ?
    Gosh. No answer.... is it possible it's just trolling?
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    I've not heard about voting problems connected with vaccine in Finland. Regardless, the word of a minister has no weight. Laws and regulations rule.
    /Erik

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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    Remember the palmy days when Dubya could see Putin's soul, and there was even a brief moment when there was idle talk of inviting Russia into NATO?

    LOL.
    Or when Ronald Reagan suggested we would share ABM technology with Russia?

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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    Remember the palmy days when Dubya could see Putin's soul?
    Like looking in a mirror.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    so much for putin's plan to divide and weaken nato.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    Now with the addition of Finland and it's 830 mile border is now added to Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece and TŁrkiye. Forming a complete eastern NATO wall against Russia.
    Hungary? a big crack in the wall there.
    But if Ukraine falls then another European war is almost inevitable, and China will take advantage of the gap, and the war will spread. As long as Putin is alive.

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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    Like looking in a mirror.
    Not in the slightest.

    W was an amiable, amoral, malleable dunce who stepped into the family business, accidentally became president of the enterprise, then bumbled his way thru based upon who had his ear last.

    Putin is a voracious, focused, power-mad, too competent for comfort, full-on oligarch/demagogue.
    David G
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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    The present Hungarian regime is not worthy of respect. And I was at school with child refugees from Hungary after the Russians invaded with tanks.
    Some things never change.
    My very best Aussie friend is one of those Hungarian refugees.
    He has done very for himself and his family in Australia.
    Oh..... He is one of the biggest fans/ supporter of Australia.
    He says he will never forget what Australia and the Aussie people did to help him in his greatest time of need.
    I once thought I was wrong, but I was wrong, I wasn't wrong.

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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    As of yesterday, Finland is a NATO member. From that moment there were three NATO members (Turkey, Hungary and Finland) that had not yet accepted also Sweden as a new NATO member. It took Finland all of 15 seconds as a NATO member to do that. Thank you Finland!
    We're now patiently waiting for also Turkey and Hungary to accept Sweden so we can make the defence arrangement around the Baltic sea complete. I don't expect any decision until the election in Turkey is over.
    /Erik

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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    Welcome, Finland! Glad to have you aboard.

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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    Welcome, Finland! Glad to have you aboard.
    ^ This!
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    Welcome, Finland! Glad to have you aboard.
    Yeah.

    Home of one of the great surf bands, Laika And The Cosmonauts

    Long live the rights of man.

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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    Sweden next. So let it be written, so let it be done.
    Gerard>
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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Not in the slightest.

    W was an amiable, amoral, malleable dunce who stepped into the family business, accidentally became president of the enterprise, then bumbled his way thru based upon who had his ear last.

    Putin is a voracious, focused, power-mad, too competent for comfort, full-on oligarch/demagogue.
    W was a grown up man with a grown up job. He's accountable for what happened on his watch. Let a man's 'soul' be measured by what he does. "But ma! Dick made me do it!" doesn't sound very presidential.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Finlandís accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

    So much for "our friends in Syria", Sweden has agreed to extradite Omar Altun to Turkiya, to face terrorism charges, despite Sweden stating the charges "were fraud", in the hope Erdogan will agree to confirm Sweden to the NATO alliance.

    I hope Ukraine is paying attention to how usefull friends can be....but only when they are usefull to anothers end. Pityfull.

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