Finland’s accession to NATO is a diplomatic and strategic setback for Russia

[Joe (SoCal)]

• March 30, 2023 Updated 4:57 p.m. ET

BRUSSELS — Finland won final approval on Thursday to join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, a major shift in the balance of power between the West and Russia that was set off by Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine.

Turkey’s Parliament, in a session that went deep into the night, cast the last vote needed for Finland’s entry into NATO, greatly enlarging the alliance’s border with Russia in a strategic defeat for its president, Vladimir V. Putin. In invading Ukraine last year, he made it clear that he was intent on blocking NATO’s eastward expansion.

Finland, with its 830-mile border with Russia, offers NATO a much stronger position to deter aggression, offering access to a strong military, as well as Finnish airspace, ports and sea lanes. NATO will also be better able to defend the Baltic nations and the Arctic, said Matti Pesu, a security expert with the Finnish Institute of International Affairs.

“Finland will contribute to allied deterrence and defense, and NATO’s area of operations will significantly grow,” Mr. Pesu said.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/03...e=articleShare

[Hugh MacD]

That's GOOD news!

[Art Haberland]

cue the kremlin apologists claiming that NATO is imperialistic

[mizzenman]

Russia makes fine bufferstate between China and the west

[icyb]

This has been a good day.

[Garret]

Russia makes fine bufferstate between China and the west

Well said!

Glad Finland is in - hope Sweden is next.

[Jim Bow]

Finland is also the happiest country.

[Tom from Rubicon]

Russia makes fine bufferstate between China and the west

Ragnar, you win the Hammerschlagen. China is always a long game.

Tom

[ERGR]

Congratulations, Finland!
There are still some formalities left. The Turkish decision has to be filed in Washington (where the NATO archive is). After that the remaining details are totally in the hands of NATO (Stoltenberg) and Finland.

Turkey and Hungary still need to show some hostility towards Sweden as a part of the domestic politics in these countries and have not accepted us yet. However, security also for Sweden is enhanced by Finland being a NATO member. If it takes long for Turkey and Hungary to accept also Sweden it will be negative for the common defence planning in the Baltic area; Sweden is crucial for reinforcing Finland as well as the Baltic states and Sweden being a NATO member will save time in an emergency.

/Erik

[Johan R]

Turkey and Hungary still need to show some hostility towards Sweden as a part of the domestic politics in these countries and have not accepted us yet.

/Erik

Long history of Sweden interfering in Hungry domestic politics. Care to explain why?

""Kovács wrote that “Sweden is constantly undermining (international) relations,” its “throne of moral superiority is crumbling,” and the country has shown a lack of “care and respect” towards Hungary.""

[skuthorp]

The present Hungarian regime is not worthy of respect. And I was at school with child refugees from Hungary after the Russians invaded with tanks.
Some things never change.

[ERGR]

The Swedish policy towards Hungary is the same as the EU policy. Sweden is currently presiding the EU. EU is holding back funds for Hungary for not living up to the EU charter regarding democracy. We're representing the hostile EU.
The Swedish policy towards the Kurds and Turkey has been the same as the US policy and EU policy which Turkey doesn't like either.
On top of that Sweden has had a high profile forreign policy, which means voicing opinions on other countries domestic problems. We've anoyed Erdogan and Orban for domestic purposes in Sweden. Finnish forreign policy has been the same, but they have been diplomatic and low keyed.
I prefer the Finnish way. Forreign policy and especially national security should be handled by grown ups in Turkey, Hungary as well as Sweden.
/Erik

[George.]

Anyone who pisses off both Orban and Erdogan is good in my book.

[Nicholas Scheuer]

I had feared Turkey would spoil the deal.

[sp_clark]

Forreign policy and especially national security should be handled by grown ups in Turkey, Hungary as well as Sweden.

There's another couple of high profile countries I'd add to that list Erik...

I had feared Turkey would spoil the deal.

Indeed, as did I.

[WszystekPoTrochu]

I had feared Turkey would spoil the deal.

Turkey plays it's own game. There is nothing putin can offer that would balance an arbitrary unjustifiable blocking of NATO expansion.

[Johan R]

I prefer the Finnish way. Forreign policy and especially national security should be handled by grown ups in Turkey, Hungary as well as Sweden.
/Erik

I agree it is sometimes better for some conversations to be had in private. Biden is under attack for voicing out loud the situation in Israel.

As to EU democracy, a Finnish minister told the people of Finland they could not vote unless they had the Covid vaccine, it would appear "EU democracy" is considered to be different depending on what EU country you are in and what the issue is. One mans terrorist is another nations freedom fighter.

[Gerarddm]

Remember the palmy days when Dubya could see Putin's soul, and there was even a brief moment when there was idle talk of inviting Russia into NATO?

LOL.

[Splodge]

Johan R
Finnish minister told the people of Finland they could not vote unless they had the Covid vaccine
Got a reference for that ?

[Joe (SoCal)]

Now with the addition of Finland and it's 830 mile border is now added to Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece and Türkiye. Forming a complete eastern NATO wall against Russia.

[George Jung]

Johan R
Finnish minister told the people of Finland they could not vote unless they had the Covid vaccine
Got a reference for that ?

Gosh. No answer.... is it possible it's just trolling?

[ERGR]

I've not heard about voting problems connected with vaccine in Finland. Regardless, the word of a minister has no weight. Laws and regulations rule.
/Erik

[LeeG]

Remember the palmy days when Dubya could see Putin's soul, and there was even a brief moment when there was idle talk of inviting Russia into NATO?

LOL.

Or when Ronald Reagan suggested we would share ABM technology with Russia?

[JimD]

Remember the palmy days when Dubya could see Putin's soul?

Like looking in a mirror.

[JimD]

so much for putin's plan to divide and weaken nato.

[skuthorp]

Now with the addition of Finland and it's 830 mile border is now added to Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece and Türkiye. Forming a complete eastern NATO wall against Russia.

Hungary? a big crack in the wall there.
But if Ukraine falls then another European war is almost inevitable, and China will take advantage of the gap, and the war will spread. As long as Putin is alive.

[David G]

Like looking in a mirror.

Not in the slightest.

W was an amiable, amoral, malleable dunce who stepped into the family business, accidentally became president of the enterprise, then bumbled his way thru based upon who had his ear last.

Putin is a voracious, focused, power-mad, too competent for comfort, full-on oligarch/demagogue.

[Robbie 2]

The present Hungarian regime is not worthy of respect. And I was at school with child refugees from Hungary after the Russians invaded with tanks.
Some things never change.

My very best Aussie friend is one of those Hungarian refugees.
He has done very for himself and his family in Australia.
Oh..... He is one of the biggest fans/ supporter of Australia.
He says he will never forget what Australia and the Aussie people did to help him in his greatest time of need.

[ERGR]

As of yesterday, Finland is a NATO member. From that moment there were three NATO members (Turkey, Hungary and Finland) that had not yet accepted also Sweden as a new NATO member. It took Finland all of 15 seconds as a NATO member to do that. Thank you Finland!
We're now patiently waiting for also Turkey and Hungary to accept Sweden so we can make the defence arrangement around the Baltic sea complete. I don't expect any decision until the election in Turkey is over.
/Erik

[StevenBauer]

Welcome, Finland! Glad to have you aboard.

[Garret]

Welcome, Finland! Glad to have you aboard.

^ This!

[Osborne Russell]

Welcome, Finland! Glad to have you aboard.

Yeah.

Home of one of the great surf bands, Laika And The Cosmonauts

[Gerarddm]

Sweden next. So let it be written, so let it be done.

[JimD]

Not in the slightest.

W was an amiable, amoral, malleable dunce who stepped into the family business, accidentally became president of the enterprise, then bumbled his way thru based upon who had his ear last.

Putin is a voracious, focused, power-mad, too competent for comfort, full-on oligarch/demagogue.

W was a grown up man with a grown up job. He's accountable for what happened on his watch. Let a man's 'soul' be measured by what he does. "But ma! Dick made me do it!" doesn't sound very presidential.

[Johan R]

So much for "our friends in Syria", Sweden has agreed to extradite Omar Altun to Turkiya, to face terrorism charges, despite Sweden stating the charges "were fraud", in the hope Erdogan will agree to confirm Sweden to the NATO alliance.

I hope Ukraine is paying attention to how usefull friends can be....but only when they are usefull to anothers end. Pityfull.