Designs for a Vintage 5hp inboard motor

[eggman918]

I have used their services with good results.
https://www.fastenal.com/fast/blue-lane-freight

[Autonomous]

17'9" Indian Runner Strip Planked Launch Plans - Duckworks Boat Builders Supply

[heimlaga]

On this side of the Atlantic theese boats were developed for that type of motor.

https://batritningar.se/sv/batritnin.../84-motorsnipa

[Ben Fuller]

A couple of thoughts.

You will note that these are raw water cooled and the salts getting into the cast iron plus some freezing weather is what cracks them. So if it was mine and on a trailer I'd make sure I ran it in fresh from time to time and make sure fresh was my last trip of the season.

Fuel: most of these launches figured out some kind of gravity feed, may be a tank high under the fore deck.

Transmission: for a bunch of years I ran an old steel lifeboat into which we had droped a Plymouthn L head with a busted trannuy, no reverse gear. You learned to do without, so it isn't the end of the world. Kind of like handling an engineless sailboat of similar size. But I'dn contact the tranny seller.

That Draketail in an earlier thread has a massive turning circle. A gent built it, installed a similar Gray 4 stroke. He has reverse but mostly relies on timing and coasting.

Someone in the steam launch community as i recall was doing glass launch hulls.

I like the idea of contacting Gartside; worth checking the designs of William Atkin.

[Autonomous]

Ben, are these the fiberglass hulls you referred to?
Welcome to Beckmann Boatshop Limited (steamboating.net)

[heimlaga]

Another north european classic design

https://www.woodenboat.com/snekke

By the way you could fit your motor with a variable pitch propeller and make do without a clutch.

[Ben Fuller]

Ben, are these the fiberglass hulls you referred to?
Welcome to Beckmann Boatshop Limited (steamboating.net)

You've found the right spot. A small market. There may be other suppliers but I doubt it.

[nedL]

Glad to see that some caught onto the size of this engine, and that it is four cycle. This will probably need a good 22 to 24 feet of boat wrapped around it, and yes, a reverse gear. Finding a stand alone reverse gear, something like a "Joes Gear" may be tough. I have never been able to find one.




I have a 5 hp Acadia (also 300 pounds) and it would take a similar 22 - 24 foot boat.



You might check out the Newfoundland trap skiffs, their sizes cover just the right range.



There are still guys building them very reasonably (might even be worth shipping to the PNW)

[heimlaga]

A couple of thoughts.

You will note that these are raw water cooled and the salts getting into the cast iron plus some freezing weather is what cracks them. So if it was mine and on a trailer I'd make sure I ran it in fresh from time to time and make sure fresh was my last trip of the season.

Fuel: most of these launches figured out some kind of gravity feed, may be a tank high under the fore deck.

Transmission: for a bunch of years I ran an old steel lifeboat into which we had droped a Plymouthn L head with a busted trannuy, no reverse gear. You learned to do without, so it isn't the end of the world. Kind of like handling an engineless sailboat of similar size. But I'dn contact the tranny seller.

That Draketail in an earlier thread has a massive turning circle. A gent built it, installed a similar Gray 4 stroke. He has reverse but mostly relies on timing and coasting.

Someone in the steam launch community as i recall was doing glass launch hulls.

I like the idea of contacting Gartside; worth checking the designs of William Atkin.

The normal way to protect old engines from the ravages of salt and time is to install a cooler pipe under the bottom of the boat and convert the old motor to freshwater cooling.

[Canoeyawl]

That engine in the op may have been used as a stationary engine, it appears to have escaped the wrath of mother ocean...

[Ben Fuller]

That engine in the op may have been used as a stationary engine, it appears to have escaped the wrath of mother ocean...

Very possible although most stationary engines I've seen are rigged with two fly wheels. Be that as it may if the engine was run in fresh it could last a long time. I've seen some little tiny Ferro engines 1. 5 hp or so that were used as canoe engines. Cute.

[Canoeyawl]

The brochure said it was available as a stationary engine, which made me think that was why there was no transmission...

[Ben Fuller]

Looked up the seller of the Paragon: Ross Brothers are reliable citizens, often find great boats and boating stuff, regular at the Wooden Boat show.

The problem with these engines with big flywheels is that they get unhappy when one tries to run them up without a load on the other side. The manufacturers had various ways of loading them to test them before they went out the door e.g. big fans. From what I gather to run them as a stationary engine you wanted a flywheel on either side then a take off with a belt. I expect that something like a dynamo would help.

A keel cooler might be a good idea. Used to see these on workboats. Some experimentation might be needed to see what length of pipe needed. Presumably there is a little water pump on the engine.

The notes about carbruation and fuel tanks should be heeded: safety wasn't a prime factor then. I believe that there are specs for today's carbrurators.

Mystic Seaport has a very large marine engine collection under the able care of Scott Noseworthy. Worth a reach out.

[Garret]

I have purchased from Ross Brothers. Nice folks.

[mtbjeff]

Looked up the seller of the Paragon: Ross Brothers are reliable citizens, often find great boats and boating stuff, regular at the Wooden Boat show.

The problem with these engines with big flywheels is that they get unhappy when one tries to run them up without a load on the other side. The manufacturers had various ways of loading them to test them before they went out the door e.g. big fans. From what I gather to run them as a stationary engine you wanted a flywheel on either side then a take off with a belt. I expect that something like a dynamo would help.

A keel cooler might be a good idea. Used to see these on workboats. Some experimentation might be needed to see what length of pipe needed. Presumably there is a little water pump on the engine.

The notes about carbruation and fuel tanks should be heeded: safety wasn't a prime factor then. I believe that there are specs for today's carbrurators.

Mystic Seaport has a very large marine engine collection under the able care of Scott Noseworthy. Worth a reach out.

I went ahead and bought the Paragon transmission from Ross Brothers and I should receive this week, they were very pleasant to work with. I'm going to build an engine stand that will accommodate both the Motor and transmission for bench testing, this seem like the best approach. Zenith carburetors make some modern updraft replacement carburetors for vintage Tractors that will probably offer the best running, particular at low speed and idle compared to the 1916 Air Friction Carburetor that is currently on the motor.

-Jeff

[Autonomous]

Appreciate the update.

[mtbjeff]

This is a modern updraft Zenith carburetor for Tractors and a small Makuini vacuum operated fuel pump that is used on Scooters and motorcycles for lifting fuel. I think both of these would make for a safer fuel system with the motor. apiaplpia__03223.jpgX001-Y002.jpg

[Edward Pearson]

Not seen this before. The late great Joel White drew an 18ft electric launch in '91! I should think the weight of your engine vs batteries etc might not be too dissimilar. Prop aperture would need considering for your slow speed high torque engine, though it looks usable.

From the Brooklin Boatyard site...it's not a design I remember seeing in his book, you'd have to ask the yard for plans.

joel-white-designs

Screen Shot 2023-04-15 at 09.12.12.jpg

The 24ft'er was quite the looker. Those with incurable doublenderitis should look away now.

Screen Shot 2023-04-15 at 09.18.01.jpg

[Canoeyawl]

This is a modern updraft Zenith carburetor for Tractors and a small Makuini vacuum operated fuel pump that is used on Scooters and motorcycles for lifting fuel. I think both of these would make for a safer fuel system with the motor. apiaplpia__03223.jpgX001-Y002.jpg

A good choice...

(The "marine" version of that carb has ported and plumbed overflow (as used with the venerable Atomic Four) which perhaps can be retrofitted to keep fuel out of the bilge)

edit to add:

overflow port
(note also, these little carburetors are available with an adjustable main jet (which you may want)

EF53B899-4BF0-4D24-8210-DA8367BBD716.jpeg

There is also a marine spark/flame arrestor available for that carb (may have to be sourced used)

D8F2D5F6-D972-4ED2-B06A-24BFE499B4F4.jpeg

[mtbjeff]

Not seen this before. The late great Joel White drew an 18ft electric launch in '91! I should think the weight of your engine vs batteries etc might not be too dissimilar. Prop aperture would need considering for your slow speed high torque engine, though it looks usable.

From the Brooklin Boatyard site...it's not a design I remember seeing in his book, you'd have to ask the yard for plans.

joel-white-designs

Screen Shot 2023-04-15 at 09.12.12.jpg

The 24ft'er was quite the looker. Those with incurable doublenderitis should look away now.

Screen Shot 2023-04-15 at 09.18.01.jpg

Thank you Edward, that is a lovely design.

Jeff

[mtbjeff]

A good choice...

(The "marine" version of that carb has ported and plumbed overflow (as used with the venerable Atomic Four) which perhaps can be retrofitted to keep fuel out of the bilge)

edit to add:

overflow port
(note also, these little carburetors are available with an adjustable main jet (which you may want)

EF53B899-4BF0-4D24-8210-DA8367BBD716.jpeg

There is also a marine spark/flame arrestor available for that carb (may have to be sourced used)

D8F2D5F6-D972-4ED2-B06A-24BFE499B4F4.jpeg

An adjustbale main jet would be nice, I would hate to be making my own jets. My thought was getting a Carburetor for a 20-25 hp 4 cylinder tractor (5-6 hp per cylinder) should have me in the ball park, the Air Friction carburetor is 1 1/8 at the throttle plate. The overflow drain would be good if and when the float sticks.

A spark arrester will probably need to be fabricated up in the end.

Jeff

[Canoeyawl]

An adjustbale main jet would be nice, I would hate to be making my own jets. My thought was getting a Carburetor for a 20-25 hp 4 cylinder tractor (5-6 hp per cylinder) should have me in the ball park, the Air Friction carburetor is 1 1/8 at the throttle plate. The overflow drain would be good if and when the float sticks.

A spark arrester will probably need to be fabricated up in the end.

Jeff

I ran one of those zeniths w/adjustable jet on a Universal Fisherman,
it worked perfectly



https://www.amazon.com/Zenith-Fuel-S...20857838&psc=1