Best way possible to be green

[Garret]

Get one of these!

2024 GMC Hummer EV SUV

Only 9,640 pounds. Dunno the towing capacity.

Picture won't post

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-ev-suv-drive/

[Paul Pless]

one tail-light $6100

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...hts-expensive/

[LeeG]

Man you could drive over a lot of baby seals with that.

[Jim Bow]

The current Chev Suburban is a foot and a half longer than the Hummer. Two inches shorter than a Sherman tank. Electrify that sonovabean!

[LeeG]

It needs something unique besides mass and power. Got it. A Boston Dynamics Spot robot integral to the roof to provide security. Something with snappy strong arms. Imagine a 75 lb metal dog jumping to the ground from the roof.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Zbhvaac68Y

[David G]

dse

[LeeG]

one tail-light $6100

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...hts-expensive/

That really makes one wonder how long they expect to sell that model.

[Garret]

The best part about the rig? It's only $106K. Which is actually a bit cheaper than some gussied up pickups.

[Garret]

The current Chev Suburban is a foot and a half longer than the Hummer. Two inches shorter than a Sherman tank. Electrify that sonovabean!

2025 they say.

[McMike]

Don't have children.

[L.W. Baxter]

or dogs

[McMike]

or dogs

Not even close to children . . . I can drive a panamax tanker to work everyday and still not negatively impact the planet the same as if I fathered children.

[L.W. Baxter]

i respect your choice to not have children. i guess. i mean, at least as much as you respect my choice to reproduce, maybe, apparently, more.

if you are selling your choice as a sacrifice to "the environment", i am not buying.

i quietly hope that each of my two kids has a child or two. what else is there, beyond life.

as norm messinger put it, "atoms and the void".

[McMike]

i respect your choice to not have children. i guess. i mean, at least as much as you respect my choice to reproduce, maybe, apparently, more.

if you are selling your choice as a sacrifice to "the environment", i am not buying.

i quietly hope that each of my two kids has a child or two. what else is there, beyond life.

as norm messinger put it, "atoms and the void".

I neither respect nor disrespect your choice. You may have spawned the savior of humanity and the ecosystem. Thing is, most of us won't. Most of us will only create an ever increasing line of consumers, energy spent for nothing. Mine isn't a sacrifice, it was mercy. Mercy from the shi77y world, our shi77y culture, the reality that I don't bring nearly enough joy to the table for raising children, mercy that I don't have an extended family to share and the joy that should bring, and mercy from a future that is reliant upon idiots to be prosperous and safe.

As for what else there is . . . There is plenty if you seek it. I just enjoyed a couple hours building a Lego Apollo Saturn V model with my wife, a memory that I hope to replay fondly in my last moments. And now, shes sacked out on the couch with our two pups, all as content as can be, and that makes all the hard work worth it. I'll go out, look up at the stars, and know . . . it won't mean a thing in due time, atoms and the void indeed. It's a game we play, and we play it well . . . in fact, some of us are so damn good at it, that we try to lose.

[McMike]

absolute crap.

Lol, may be a little exaggeration, but there is nothing more negatively impactful than creating more people. Hey, if you have two kids, and they each make two kids and their children each make two kids . . . . how many people is that in a hundred years? Conservatively, 60 in 100 years and 892 in 200 years

[L.W. Baxter]

Lol...

okey dokey

[McMike]

That's my wife's and my 125 tones of trash compared to you and your wife's 55,000 tones over 200 years. Assuming one person generates 4.5 lbs per day over a 75 year average life span.

[McMike]

after 500 years, that's 60,000 people you made, and 3.8 million tones of trash. to my 125 tones.

[McMike]

I would hope you create a Nobel prize winner in there at some point but probably some giant polluter or two too. So, tell me . . . in 500 years, you will have been long forgotten by your bloodline, maybe, if you're lucky . . . a name. All the joy and love and just as much pain and suffering. Big picture, what makes you so special to have spawned a small city? Will there even be enough room for them, will your line end in 100 years because the world simply can sustain them? . . . and at that end, will they curse you for causing their suffering? Will they have to fight in wars, slaughtering or being slaughtered? Will they be packed in space freighters or mines on Mars or on a distant asteroid, mirroring the late 1800s industrial conditions and suffering? Do you think your line will be the privileged or the enslaved? Would you have created them had you known you're line would live the lives of the oppressed? Do you see a way our collective future is bright? . . . or are you comforted by the fact that it is what it is, as it always has been?

We don't get to plow forward as we have without it being our end as a species. And we don't have the collective maturity to fix what needs to be fixed. You can't even imagine making the choice to forgo your own offspring and you're more evolved than most. . . By just that depressing fact, we're fu34ed.

[Garret]

While I get that GM making & people buying such a monstrosity is anathema, to have this sort of negativity about the world is maybe worse. Of course we have real problems, but the important thing is to fix them. No one having kids is not the answer.

I didn't have kids, but my partner did & that means I have grandkids. The unbridled joy of a 5 year old you love seeing a chickadee land on the arm of her chair is something to behold - you've missed that & I'm sorry for you. Oh sure, she produces trash and will probably get in trouble as she grows, but so what? She is life, and life is a precious thing.

[McMike]

While I get that GM making & people buying such a monstrosity is anathema, to have this sort of negativity about the world is maybe worse. Of course we have real problems, but the important thing is to fix them. No one having kids is not the answer.

I didn't have kids, but my partner did & that means I have grandkids. The unbridled joy of a 5 year old you love seeing a chickadee land on the arm of her chair is something to behold - you've missed that & I'm sorry for you. Oh sure, she produces trash and will probably get in trouble as she grows, but so what? She is life, and life is a precious thing.

The end of humanity is not my wish or objective in my thought process. I recognize the joy a minority of people have in bringing children into the world. But yes, we have massive problems, ones humanity is not going to fix, we are out of control, and the answer seems to be that we add to the problem instead of taking personal responsibility to fix it. I also realize the shi77yness in preaching to the people that are clearly equipped to bring children into the world and that the people who aren't will never hear or listen.

The fact that you personalized my comment is the problem. It's okay if someone else fixes the problem, but I'm to busy with my joy to rationally think about the impact of that 5 year old . . . and the suffering that 5 year old will likely experience if we don't collectively do something. And if intelligent, educated, evolved people can't rationally look at this without taking it personally, how do we get the rest of the world to do so?

I'll make a parallel. I have a right to defend myself with a firearm but not at the cost of my neighbor, which means, I might have the means to remedy violence against me but that remedy shouldn't cost you your life. With children; we all have a right to procreate, but every child has a cost to everyone else, leads to the end of us all. How is that fair? How is it moral to not take this into account? How is it moral to bring a child into a life of imminent suffering? Sure, you could say that the future is unknown and claim that as your shield from accountability, but I'm not buying that. The science is clear. And . . . it seems the only way we make the powers that be fix this, is by taking their growth away, their labor, their consumers. Sure, in 25-50 years, it might not make a difference with AI and robotics clearly poised to take the place of human labor, but then, doesn't that also create a reason to not toss a child into the world knowing full well the sh17 show it will be?

In 1900, knowing for certain the horror show the next 50 years would be for Europe, as a European, would you have brought a child into that? People were too ignorant back then to make that call, we are not. Wishful thinking is not an excuse.

. . . and when I say you, it's a collective you, not you in particular.

[LeeG]

It’s hysterical to think about. A tail light unit costing as much as 1500 gallons of gasoline. This vehicle isn’t evidence of a transition to lower energy intensive personal transportation but a blow out spending spree like the debt fueled growth in fracked oil.

[Osborne Russell]

The modern version of tail fins? Conspicuous consumption?

[Garret]

Hey Mike -

I didn't think I'd personalized it more than you already had since you've made the choice not to have kids. My apologies if I overstepped. I guess I see it as no one having kids = the end of the human race. Now some may argue that the ending would be good, but I'm not one of them. Do we have problems? Oh hell yeah, but suiciding the entire race is not the answer IMO.

[Osborne Russell]

Self-extinction is a threat only in the abstract. There would be plenty enough accidentals.

A genuine birth dearth could be easily corrected. Just say the word and stand back.

[Garret]

It’s hysterical to think about. A tail light unit costing as much as 1500 gallons of gasoline. This vehicle isn’t evidence of a transition to lower energy intensive personal transportation but a blow out spending spree like the debt fueled growth in fracked oil.

The modern version of tail fins? Conspicuous consumption?

How can a Hummer be anything other than conspicuous consumption? How can anyone justify a need for such a vehicle? IOW - it is insane. A minivan will carry just as much - but they aren't manly enough.

I was talking to my SIL who lives in a very affluent community in Florida. Lots of Porsches, some Ferraris, Lamborghinis, etc. & a top of the line 90K Suburban is considered a reasonable vehicle for schlepping around a couple of kids. It seems that the folks there see the EV Hummer as a totally legit & reasonable purchase, as it's electric - so it's green. As far as the taillight goes, 6K is chump change. 1) Insurance will pay for it 2) compared to a 15K annual service on the Ferrari it's no big deal - just write a check.

[LeeG]

That tailight replacement cost has me stumped. Imagining a Blade Runner world where upscale junkyards are mining trashed vehicles for parts.

[McMike]

Hey Mike -

I didn't think I'd personalized it more than you already had since you've made the choice not to have kids. My apologies if I overstepped. I guess I see it as no one having kids = the end of the human race. Now some may argue that the ending would be good, but I'm not one of them. Do we have problems? Oh hell yeah, but suicide the entire race is not the answer IMO.

Garret, What I meant by personalizing it was the idea that you brought your grandchild into the discussion as if to say that the love and joy he brings you closes the door to discuss this because; how could I possibly suggest him not existing? I think it's clear that I'm not suggesting that we suicide the entire race . . . JFC Garret, I did say the exact opposite . . . stop . . . But your reaction is the hurdle we have to overcome. No one can Imagine their loved one not existing, and that's not what I'm suggesting. What I'm suggesting is forethought, forgoing a loved one that never existed is relativity painless, especially if you can adopt, for instance, if it's your life's yearning that you raise a child.

My tertiary point is that there is no real remedy to overpopulation, not one humanity is willing to undertake, but if nature doesn't fix it, our lack of action will . . . and that suffering is no place for someone you would love so dearly. Is it?

Convince me we are not on a crash course for mass suffering and I'll change my opinion. Covid19 itself, and then coupled with our reaction to it as a collective, should tell you how ready we are to collectively make the necessary changes. But hey, whistling past the graveyard is a way to live life too....

FWIW, I'm perfectly happy with my life. I live happy and well. Some day, sooner or later, life will get hard, by the nature of getting old, I'm unencumbered by the responsibility of having to worry about anybody but my wife. It's interesting to see how LW finds it impossible to imagine I have fulfillment without children . . . but then, no one takes into account the handful of people I've taken under my wing through the years, mentored, and yes, the two step-children I raised for 10 years, the dogs I adopted, the homeless shelters I volunteered for, the charities I give to, and yes, despite my lack of aggregate impact and therefore, lack of responsibility for it's damage, the environment I have cared for my entire life. I have found purpose. If I die tomorrow, I will have lived a life of doing a minimum of harm and I am fulfilled.

. . . oh, but hey, I should get off my high horse, because actually trying to be better, trying my actual best to do minimal harm, makes everyone else feel bad . . . because we can imagine the straightest of lines but our fingers can't control the pen, and it's this frustration that yields to relief as we say we're just mortal men . . . . Whoops.

[hawkeye54]

FWIW, I'm perfectly happy with my life. I live happy and well. Some day, sooner or later, life will get hard, by the nature of getting old, I'm unencumbered by the responsibility of having to worry about anybody but my wife. It's interesting to see how LW finds it impossible to imagine I have fulfillment without children . . . but then, no one takes into account the handful of people I've taken under my wing through the years, mentored, and yes, the two step-children I raised for 10 years, the dogs I adopted, the homeless shelters I volunteered for, the charities I give to, and yes, despite my lack of aggregate impact and therefore, lack of responsibility for it's damage, the environment I have cared for my entire life. I have found purpose. If I die tomorrow, I will have lived a life of doing a minimum of harm and I am fulfilled..

Mike, ya done good !

Many, many years ago, I read in a book in the "Cross and Switchblade" series, where a priest was describing his life as 'a hand in a bucket of water' - leaving no mark when removed (when he passes away) . This, I thought, was a waste - at least one can make a positive influence on something while here on earth - so I tried to live my life accordingly. - My decision was also shaped by visits to Haiti, Egypt, and other disadvantaged areas in the world.

I have thereafter followed a system / regimen of 'random acts of kindness' , and work with such agencies as 'Habitat for Humanity' and others to help out where needed.

Just my way of helping out in the world . .

[Ted Hoppe]

Farr eeet..

86B6B2E4-FAF6-477C-900C-EE4A69EEE24B.jpg

[McMike]

Mike, ya done good !

Many, many years ago, I read in a book in the "Cross and Switchblade" series, where a priest was describing his life as 'a hand in a bucket of water' - leaving no mark when removed (when he passes away) . This, I thought, was a waste - at least one can make a positive influence on something while here on earth - so I tried to live my life accordingly. - My decision was also shaped by visits to Haiti, Egypt, and other disadvantaged areas in the world.

I have thereafter followed a system / regimen of 'random acts of kindness' , and work with such agencies as 'Habitat for Humanity' and others to help out where needed.

Just my way of helping out in the world . .

Thank you.

Random acts of kindness is my favorite! When I can, I make sure to help, I don't let someone else suffer if I can help it.

[McMike]

Farr eeet..

86B6B2E4-FAF6-477C-900C-EE4A69EEE24B.jpg

You'd be the last person I was trying to impress . . . if that were my motive. So, if not you, who would I be signaling to? Imaginary people on the internet? Lol, Take it or leave it. Your problem is, I'm right and you don't like it.

[L.W. Baxter]

this is not what i typed

It's interesting to see how LW finds it impossible to imagine I have fulfillment without children

what i did type was that i secretly hope my kids decide to have a kid or two. because i don't believe politics or "saving the environment" are good reasons to not bring new life into the world. but, i want my kids to follow their own heart in this. certainly, there can be fulfillment without procreating.

humans are indeed well on the way to promulgating an extinction event and perhaps worse. hard to know the future.

the odious part, mike, is your certitude. your absurd math about my descendents being one aspect. the likelihood of my genes being so widely represented in the future is almost nil. quite possible that neither of my offspring has a biological child. it is the fashion of the day.

what is more likely is, perhaps my daughter the medical lab scientist does some lab work that helps you with a health problem in the future. or my son may build the care facility you spend your final days in. it is certain that they will both be paying ss tax when you are collecting it.

and your certitude that the world is already ####ed by humanity? ok then. what puts you on a high horse regarding your irrelevant choice? what gives you dispensation to drive a car or create any waste or even breathe the air? your dogs do indeed consume protein that could feed a baby in sub saharan africa. get over yourself.

[John Meachen]

In the last few days I have seen a TV ad for the Ford Explorer that is coming to Europe in 2024.Admittedly is is going to be electric but that won't make the streets wide enough to cope with such a beast.What does it take to persuade the thrusting executives in Detroit that what works in their hometown might not be universally popular?Such a brilliant plan is coming along just after they killed off the compact Fiesta that has been hugely popular from it's first day and which imposes a smaller demand on the planet's resources.

[Ted Hoppe]

You'd be the last person I was trying to impress . . . if that were my motive. So, if not you, who would I be signaling to? Imaginary people on the internet? Lol, Take it or leave it. Your problem is, I'm right and you don't like it.

The hypocrisy of the thread is self evident considering this forum and what people talk about. If you thought that comment was directed at you (which it wasn't) it is an interesting perspective on your own thought process, how you see the world. if it was about thoughtfulness and kindness - we all have work to do.