Another Pilot Collapses in Flight

[Dave Hadfield]

I make it the 5th such incident in 3 weeks.

Single-pilot airliners are a ridiculously bad idea, AI isn't even a small fraction good enough to cope, and extending the retirement age to 67 will bring more medical events.

A Southwest Airlines pilot became incapacitated while flying. A pilot from another airline was on board — and jumped in to help. (msn.com)

[Jim Bow]

Has it been established yet why these pilots got sick? I hope the details get reported.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Makes a strong case for offering big discounts to pilots travelling as passengers - 100% for anyone current on type perhaps 10% for private pilot with only single engine and VFR.....

[bluedog225]

That’s not a bad idea. Until it becomes the norm. And they’d need to be in the jump seat.

The other way to do it is to train and pay to staff an adequate flight crew.

[ron ll]

Are there really commercial passenger planes with only one pilot on board these days?

[Jim Mahan]

On the latest one, the news reported that the co-pilot flew the plane while the dead-heading passenger pilot worked the radio. They made it sound like a real emergency, but couldn't the copilot fly the plane and work the radio, too? I thought that was the point of having a copilot. What do they do in a pilot collapse emergency and there's no dead-heading pilot among the passengers? If it were really necessary, then aren't the airlines being negligent by not having a regular extra pilot on board for all flights?

I thought all airline pilots and crew got to fly for free when travelling and not on duty.

[brad9798]

Why was he standing?

[bluedog225]

Buses only have one driver.

[Tom Wilkinson]

[QUOTE=brad9798;6823833]
Maybe the original pilot couldn’t get out of the seat. Did it say?
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[Tom Wilkinson]

Sure, he could do it alone, but a second set of eyes and ears assisting was a good idea.


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[Dikhaut]

Buses only have one driver.

Buses usually have passengers who would have at least a shot at safely stopping the bus. Seems less likely on an airplane.


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[Ron Williamson]

^^^^ Pretty easy to pull over onto the shoulder when you aren't at 40000'
R

[bluedog225]

Sure. Or he grabs his chest and drives off the overpass.

[Dave Hadfield]

On the latest one, the news reported that the co-pilot flew the plane while the dead-heading passenger pilot worked the radio. They made it sound like a real emergency, but couldn't the copilot fly the plane and work the radio, too? I thought that was the point of having a copilot. What do they do in a pilot collapse emergency and there's no dead-heading pilot among the passengers? If it were really necessary, then aren't the airlines being negligent by not having a regular extra pilot on board for all flights?

I thought all airline pilots and crew got to fly for free when travelling and not on duty.

It was a real emergency. Airliners are designed to be flown by 2 pilots. Once can do it, of course, but the risk level goes way up; and there is nothing in the bank if something else on the flight craps out. Having another skilled, current, airline pilot in the cockpit is a great benefit in that situation. (Having a VFR private pilot would be pretty much useless.)

I don't see what the remark about deadheading has to do with anything.

[Canoeyawl]

Buses only have one driver.

They don't fall out of the sky

[skuthorp]

Aren't cockpits locked from the inside these days?

[Rapelapente]

Man! that's my dream...

I'd love to land one of these machines.
Even with my private pilot experience I think I could do it.
As far as I get the parameters and the help of another pilot through the VHF.
I've been several times in the cockpit at landing, it's busy time of course , better to be two.

I'll fly back to France overnight today, taking my chance

[Dave Hadfield]

Aren't cockpits locked from the inside these days?

Yes, but the pilots can unlock it. There’s an electric switch that is within easy reach of both.

[Dan McCosh]

They don't fall out of the sky

They do go over cliffs.

[ron ll]

Some day I suppose we’ll see a story about a kid landing a plane because he had a lot of hours on MS Flight Simulator. Kind of a Flight of the Phoenix plot.

[Jim Mahan]

It was a real emergency. Airliners are designed to be flown by 2 pilots. Once can do it, of course, but the risk level goes way up; and there is nothing in the bank if something else on the flight craps out. Having another skilled, current, airline pilot in the cockpit is a great benefit in that situation. (Having a VFR private pilot would be pretty much useless.)

I don't see what the remark about deadheading has to do with anything.

Of course is was a real emergency, especially for the collapsed guy. I only meant the news broadcast made it sound like the plane would've crashed if that other pilot hadn't been aboard. I admit ignorance about the workings of flying an airliner. But that's only because you guys keep the damn door locked. The paying customers on board should be reassured that if one of the two pilots falls over they aren't going to auger in. And I was being a bit flippant. Not meant to be derogatory toward pilots; I know you're not really just bus drivers in the sky.

As far as dead-heading, if that's the right term, I was referring to this previous comment

Makes a strong case for offering big discounts to pilots travelling as passengers - 100% for anyone current on type perhaps 10% for private pilot with only single engine and VFR.....

Meaning, anyone with the current rating, an employed airline pilot, doesn't need a ticket discount to be aboard a flight when they aren't on duty.

[Dave Hadfield]

Of course is was a real emergency, especially for the collapsed guy. I only meant the news broadcast made it sound like the plane would've crashed if that other pilot hadn't been aboard. I admit ignorance about the workings of flying an airliner. But that's only because you guys keep the damn door locked. The paying customers on board should be reassured that if one of the two pilots falls over they aren't going to auger in. And I was being a bit flippant. Not meant to be derogatory toward pilots; I know you're not really just bus drivers in the sky.

As far as dead-heading, if that's the right term, I was referring to this previous comment Meaning, anyone with the current rating, an employed airline pilot, doesn't need a ticket discount to be aboard a flight when they aren't on duty.

Oh, I see. You're right, ever since 911 and the locked door, the disconnect and misunderstanding between pilots and passengers has grown.

As far as "jump-seating" as it's called (for pilots, not other airline employees), I'm not sure in the USA what documentation or Process is involved these days. There must be some level of formality. But it's pretty much no-cost, and you can occupy the spare seat in the cockpit.

The phrase "dead-heading" is a bit different -- it usually refers to when you are at work, on duty, and are being sent as a passenger somewhere, to operate or complete a flight series.

[chas]

As a pilots kid in the 60’s and 70’s I was occupying the jump seat more often than a passenger seat. From DC3’s and 4’s thru Dart Heralds to 737’s, it was my preferred place to fly! I actually have about 10 hours in the left seat of a DC3, all of it above 15000’ and below 12 years of age.
I’d be interested in the details re shared responsibilities between the two pilots of a modern airliner. I’m sure they have changed considerably since my exposure. / Jim

[Jim Bow]

Man! that's my dream...

I'd love to land one of these machines.
Even with my private pilot experience I think I could do it.

[robm]

My dad was an apprentice aircraft mechanic in WW2, worked for EFTS on Tiger Moths and others. One of his stories was about an aircraft mechanic who bet an instructor he could take off and land a Tiger Moth, just with the familiarity he had from being around them for so long. He got it off the ground just fine, but after 3 shots at landing, the instructor had to land it. (They weren't stupid enough to let him try it solo!)

[Jim Bow]

Couple of years ago, mechanic stole a DeHaviland Dash 8 at SeaTac Airport . He flew around south Puget Sound for 45 minutes before intentionally crashing into a small island near Steilacoom.
No previous training other than watching pilots

[Dave Hadfield]

Couple of years ago, mechanic stole a DeHaviland Dash 8 at SeaTac Airport . He flew around south Puget Sound for 45 minutes before intentionally crashing into a small island near Steilacoom.
No previous training other than watching pilots

Yep.

Takeoffs are easy most of the time.

That’s why no airliner has an Auto Takeoff function. They are all flown into the air by hand.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

I’ve “flown” a full mission Airbus simulator. I know ​that I can take off and I cannot land!

[Paul Pless]

That’s why no airliner has an Auto Takeoff function. They are all flown into the air by hand.

takeoffs are also. . . . . . . . . 'optional'

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Couple of years ago, mechanic stole a DeHaviland Dash 8 at SeaTac Airport . He flew around south Puget Sound for 45 minutes before intentionally crashing into a small island near Steilacoom.
No previous training other than watching pilots

I remember this sad case:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969_theft_of_C-130

[WI-Tom]

I'm quite sure I can land an airplane, even a commercial airliner, despite my lack of training and experience. I'm quite sure of it.

One way or another...

Tom

[Steve McMahon]

I very much appreciate and respect Dave’s comments, however…. I would think as a former private and commercial pilot (mostly single engine but some twin engine prop as second pilot) I may be able to be of some assistance to reduce to workload in the cockpit in such an event. Familiarity with radios and radio procedures, read the checklists, flaps when called, gear when called, call out altitude and speed on approach, and another set of eyes that have some experience watching for traffic and experience in getting a visual on the airport / runway on approach. Absolutely a second ATP rated on type pilot is the best, but I would think in such a situation anyone with a basic understanding would be at least a bit of help.

[Dave Hadfield]

I very much appreciate and respect Dave’s comments, however…. I would think as a former private and commercial pilot (mostly single engine but some twin engine prop as second pilot) I may be able to be of some assistance to reduce to workload in the cockpit in such an event. Familiarity with radios and radio procedures, read the checklists, flaps when called, gear when called, call out altitude and speed on approach, and another set of eyes that have some experience watching for traffic and experience in getting a visual on the airport / runway on approach. Absolutely a second ATP rated on type pilot is the best, but I would think in such a situation anyone with a basic understanding would be at least a bit of help.

Yes, if Commercial and with some IFR time, because then they know how to read back a clearance, and the phraseology would be somewhat familiar. A grass-field Private pilot would probably not be much of an asset. The remaining airline pilot would have no time to do any teaching.

[Osborne Russell]

A second pilot costs more, so F off. You want cheap tickets?

[robm]

I'm quite sure I can land an airplane, even a commercial airliner, despite my lack of training and experience. I'm quite sure of it.

One way or another...

Is that like "Everything is edible. Once."?